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post #316 of 497
The actual level of bass relative to other frequencies is the same as volume decreases, as confirmed by measurement microphones.

The perceived level by human beings of bass relative to other frequencies decreases as volume decreases, which is the expected result when one considers equal-loudness contours.
post #317 of 497
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Music preference plays a part too, it's why home theatre speakers (for movies) and speakers for classical music are tailored differently.

I keep hearing people say things like this, but I don't understand it at all. When I put together my screening room, I started with a perfectly balanced two channel system and added the rest of the channels balancing them as I went. When I play classical, it sounds like perfect classical. When I play a Summer blockbuster movie, things explode and the walls shake. The difference is in the recording and mix, not the speakers or equipment. It's not even in the difference between 2 channel stereo and 5:1 surround, because I use surround DSPs with my two channel playback of classical music that sound totally balanced and natural.

Good balanced sound is the same, no matter what you happen to be listening to.
post #318 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

The actual level of bass relative to other frequencies is the same as volume decreases, as confirmed by measurement microphones.
The perceived level by human beings of bass relative to other frequencies decreases as volume decreases, which is the expected result when one considers equal-loudness contours.

So there is a difference between measurement and perception when considering loudness contours. The ER4S will seem to lack bass at lower volumes, around 80dB? But it doesn't measure as having this perceived lack.

Joe Bloggs: I thought the missing 6dB effect was discounted?
post #319 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


So there is a difference between measurement and perception when considering loudness contours. The ER4S will seem to lack bass at lower volumes, around 80dB? But it doesn't measure as having this perceived lack.
Joe Bloggs: I thought the missing 6dB effect was discounted?

Seems so, but AFAIK those loudness contours apply to both headphones and real life. If something is too loud or too quiet in a live performance the loudness contours may apply. Probably one reason why dynamic range matters: It may affect frequency response perception.

 

My point is that compensating using loudness contours to achieve flat under all volume conditions may not correlate to how we would perceive a real life performance. Maybe best to compensate for gear issues and hear music at reasonable levels... Dunno.

post #320 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

So there is a difference between measurement and perception when considering loudness contours. The ER4S will seem to lack bass at lower volumes, around 80dB? But it doesn't measure as having this perceived lack.

 

FR measurements are done in dB SPL (referenced to a sound pressure of 20 micropascal). Equal loudness uses phons, a unit to describe how loud pure tones are perceived.

 

You cannot measure what SPL you need for X phon at Y Hz per se. You can only do experiments with people, that will tell you to turn the volume up or down to match the volume of a 1 kHz tone at X dB SPL. The result of these experiments are the equal loudness contours.

post #321 of 497
Thread Starter 
My receiver has a button that compensates for lack of bass at low volumes
post #322 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Is anyone here well versed enough in psychology to explain how one can have a placebo effect opposite to the expected direction, e.g. preferring a $10 printer cable to a $200 audiophile USB cable?  Or for that matter having any differential placebo effect at all when one doesn't expect a difference?

 

See the links in my signature beerchug.gif

 

There are so many psychological effects that have influence on our hearing (and our thinking and all other senses as well).

 

If you guys want to get deeper into this topic, I highly (HIGHLY) recommend you read "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman (Psychology Professor, Nobel Prize Winner).

This book made my jaw drop several times. Sometimes I needed half an our to fully understand what I read because the discoveries psychologist made in the last couple decades are soo counterintuitive.

 

Anyway, get this book and be prepared for some serious headaches .


Edited by Kaffeemann - 12/13/12 at 3:03pm
post #323 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

 

FR measurements are done in dB SPL (referenced to a sound pressure of 20 micropascal). Equal loudness uses phons, a unit to describe how loud pure tones are perceived.

 

You cannot measure what SPL you need for X phon at Y Hz per se. You can only do experiments with people, that will tell you to turn the volume up or down to match the volume of a 1 kHz tone at X dB SPL. The result of these experiments are the equal loudness contours.

 

Makes a lot of sense thanks.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

My receiver has a button that compensates for lack of bass at low volumes

 

How awesome would it be to have automatic EQ to compensate for bass at all volumes? Maybe in the distant future...

post #324 of 497

Guys whats a reliable easy to use tone generator that I can download?

post #325 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Guys whats a reliable easy to use tone generator that I can download?

 

Dunno, I just use Audacity, menu Generate -> Tone -> select frequency / amplitude / duration -> OK, then export.  That's easy enough.  There might be easier.

post #326 of 497
NCH Tone Generator
post #327 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

NCH Tone Generator

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

 

Dunno, I just use Audacity, menu Generate -> Tone -> select frequency / amplitude / duration -> OK, then export.  That's easy enough.  There might be easier.

 

Thanks!

post #328 of 497
Sinegen
post #329 of 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Sinegen


Link?

I can't find version 2.5 anywhere.

post #330 of 497
Thread Starter 

My brother stopped by for a holiday visit yesterday and gave me the speakers he has used with his Macintosh system since the mid 1970s. He's downsizing and decided to get smaller ones. They are custom made, with a fantastic 12 inch woofer, two 6 inch midrange speakers and a fancy chrome plated super tweeter. I patched them into my system replacing my 10 inch three ways that were made by the same guy as his, and the EQ is very close. I imagine they use the same crossovers and midrange speakers. I just have a little tweaking to do at the end of the spectrum. Now I am going to do a little work on my 10 inch cabinets and fly them up into the rafters as rear channels. When I get that set up, my sound is going to be formidable.


Edited by bigshot - 12/24/12 at 11:29am
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