Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Cafe Sceptico: The Objectivist Cafe
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cafe Sceptico: The Objectivist Cafe - Page 17  

post #241 of 498

He does not like it when someone else points out  that the headphone he just gave a good review is really a crappy one(as heard by others) and when confirmed with measurements, is quick to dismiss them and says, its "all about preferences".

post #242 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by firev1 View Post

He does not like it when someone else points out  that the headphone he just gave a good review is really a crappy one(as heard by others) and when confirmed with measurements, is quick to dismiss them and says, its "all about preferences".

 

Remember Guttenberg amongst other things has publicly reported hearing differences between FLAC and WAV files and describing in great detail the sonic differences between them, this should be a hint.....

 

I asked him to explain that on this arena... http://www.head-fi.org/t/589057/emotiva-pro-airmotiv4-loudspeakers-review#post_8033336

 

silence was the stern reply


Edited by nick_charles - 11/17/12 at 9:11am
post #243 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

 

Remember Guttenberg amongst other things has publicly reported hearing differences between FLAC and WAV files and describing in great detail the sonic differences between them, this should be a hint.....

 

 

blink.gif

post #244 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

 

Remember Guttenberg amongst other things has publicly reported hearing differences between FLAC and WAV files and describing in great detail the sonic differences between them, this should be a hint.....

 

It would be great if you can provide a link to the article....I would love to read it for myself.

post #245 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

 

It would be great if you can provide a link to the article....I would love to read it for myself.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20029913-47.html

post #246 of 498

Here's what he said:

"I think FLAC or Apple Lossless sound perfectly fine, just not on par with a CD, when played on a high-end audio system."

 

The only difference I can see is the CD player itself, it won't play FLAC or ALAC, and so, you're actually testing two different systems than file formats. Completely different than the argument made.

 

Its all about preferences...so guess what, I prefer not to listen to steve.


Edited by proton007 - 11/17/12 at 4:43am
post #247 of 498
post #248 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

Here's what he said:

"I think FLAC or Apple Lossless sound perfectly fine, just not on par with a CD, when played on a high-end audio system."

 

The only difference I can see is the CD player itself, it won't play FLAC or ALAC, and so, you're actually testing two different systems than file formats. Completely different than the argument made.

 

Its all about preferences...so guess what, I prefer not to listen to steve.

 

 

 

Quote:

He also says....

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20029913-47.html

So while lossless audio compression (FLAC or Apple Lossless for example) can be "expanded" to produce an exact digital duplicate of the original audio stream, that's not necessarily the same thing as sounding exactly like an uncompressed WAV file or a CD. To my ears lossless files add a glare or edge to the music and flatten the soundstage.

post #249 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by firev1 View Post

Okay......http://positive-feedback.com/Issue64/dbpoweramp.htm

 

 

I could not find any mention of a DBT or other rigorous comparison in that article ?

post #250 of 498

I'm a firm believer in objectivity but you really can't (or shouldn't) base all your choices just on that. Headphone "A" will have the same measurements no matter who is listening to it, but what each listener hears is almost always at least slightly different. The shape of the earphone cup, the angle, clamping force, open vs closed, and many more things come into play. Ultimately I think a frequency response is a good place to start but actual listening should be the final decision point. 

 

If you enjoy the sound of a particular headphone but it doesn't measure well, so what?

post #251 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadcykler View Post

I'm a firm believer in objectivity but you really can't (or shouldn't) base all your choices just on that. Headphone "A" will have the same measurements no matter who is listening to it, but what each listener hears is almost always at least slightly different. The shape of the earphone cup, the angle, clamping force, open vs closed, and many more things come into play. Ultimately I think a frequency response is a good place to start but actual listening should be the final decision point. 

 

If you enjoy the sound of a particular headphone but it doesn't measure well, so what?

 

Exactly BECAUSE everyone has different ears and taste is why you need objectivity. Since someone used to a bright signature will report a neutral pair as 'warm' or 'bassy', you can never be sure unless a well-plotted graph shows you.

And of course listening should be your ultimate decider, but often people from, let's say, luckier countries in terms of opportunities to try gear forget that in the Old Continent it's more complicated. To give an example, there is only one store in Lisbon selling anything from Grado, and I doubt there are any outside the capital. So for those who can't try gear, which are a lot, they are left with 2 choices: believe in subjective impressions or in objective measurements. I read a lot of reviews with lots of prose, but give it the weight it deserves.

post #252 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardKing1 View Post

Exactly BECAUSE everyone has different ears and taste is why you need objectivity. Since someone used to a bright signature will report a neutral pair as 'warm' or 'bassy', you can never be sure unless a well-plotted graph shows you.

And of course listening should be your ultimate decider, but often people from, let's say, luckier countries in terms of opportunities to try gear forget that in the Old Continent it's more complicated. To give an example, there is only one store in Lisbon selling anything from Grado, and I doubt there are any outside the capital. So for those who can't try gear, which are a lot, they are left with 2 choices: believe in subjective impressions or in objective measurements. I read a lot of reviews with lots of prose, but give it the weight it deserves.

 

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with what roadcykler said...redface.gif

post #253 of 498
Thread Starter 
The concepts of "digital glare" and "compressed soundstage" being used to describe the effect of file formats or equipment is a big fat red flag that says to me, "Hey! This guy is probably making it up."
post #254 of 498

Anyone with a bit of a clue knows that FLAC is being decoded to uncompressed PCM (wav files usually contain the same), and that the output is bit-identical to the source file. Hence the term lossless, which I'm surprised many don't seem to understand.

 

Those who don't shouldn't talk about digital audio, let alone do reviews...


Edited by xnor - 11/17/12 at 11:08am
post #255 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by manveru View Post

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with what roadcykler said...redface.gif

Re-read it, and it still makes sense. He mentioned a series of variables that would make the headphones sound different from person to person and I said exactly because of those variables we need objectivity. Then I went on a rant about lack of testing gear, because I'm still mad that I'm not going to enjoy any of Amazon's Black Friday because they almost always don't ship to my country.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Those who don't shouldn't talk about digital audio, let alone do reviews...

...or be one of the top audio reviewers in the world.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Cafe Sceptico: The Objectivist Cafe