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post #136 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

This thread is a place for objectivists to shoot the bull.

 

I don't know if this fits the thread, but why is soundstage so important to some people? It seems to me that when you have 2 speakers clamped to the side of your head, there won't be true soundstage. I realize there are electronic tricks that can be used so it sounds bigger than it is, but otherwise the soundstage is between your ears. 

 

 

Some say open headphones provide better soundstage than closed but I think that's similar to some saying tubes provide a warmer sound (because they're warm?). Open headphones allow sound in but also allow some of the sound out and it won't be reverberating back into your head like a regular speaker will so I'm not sure how that widens or makes larger the soundstage. What, if anything, am I missing? 

post #137 of 498
Hmm, I'll do some checking to see if there is a remaster.

I was tempted to get the RCA box set but ultimately, I didn't want/need all 60 CD's. The SACD's were so inexpensive that I bought 20 of my favorites instead. I will definitely try Marche Slav on my 5.1 system and listen to the bass. I'm always looking to add "reference bass" tracks to my go-to list.

Thanks!
post #138 of 498
Thread Starter 
The SACDs sound exactly like the CDs in the box. No sound quality difference, because they're from the same mastering. However some of the SACDs have a center channel if that works with your system.

You're absolutely right roadcycler. Soundstage is the most misused term around here.
post #139 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

The SACDs sound exactly like the CDs in the box. No sound quality difference, because they're from the same mastering. However some of the SACDs have a center channel if that works with your system.

Yup, that's exactly why I chose them. Three mics, three speakers - how could I not want them? biggrin.gif
post #140 of 498

Soundstage = It's the representation of the perceived width of the stereo field and it does differ in terms of perception from phone to phone. I don't see why it's a humongous deal for some people either (especially on something that should be portable) but I can see why it is a deal. Actual front-back separation is impossible without the audio being manipulated to represent it of course, but a wide soundstage can enhance the 2-D separation of instruments.


Edited by bangraman - 9/9/12 at 2:54am
post #141 of 498

Soundstage for me means the re-creation of the playing. This means position of each of the player/instrument. This make more sense in a stereo speaker set up than a headphone setup. Unless of course, the recording is made for headphone. In headphones,  the soundstage can sound really weird. Some recording has the drum spread out so wide, I am hearing the drums from left to right as a total wrap around. Modern recording IMO, the sound stage is almost flat as a pancake, it has gotten to the point of secondary importance.

post #142 of 498

For most modern recordings, where everything's either close mic'd or recorded straight into the console, the "soundstage" is created artificially by simple amplitude shifts (i.e. pan potting).

 

se

post #143 of 498

Guys, different topic: what can we do to fight the loudness war without resorting to buying (pricey) formats other than CD?

post #144 of 498
Thread Starter 
Listen to music like classical and jazz that aren't part of the problem. This music also has natural soundstage too.
Edited by bigshot - 9/9/12 at 3:52pm
post #145 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Guys, different topic: what can we do to fight the loudness war without resorting to buying (pricey) formats other than CD?

 

Dunno. One thing that might help is to sample songs before buying, and Amazon offers this option. Music through Amazon can be real cheap sometimes, and you can find out in advance if the music is heavily compressed...

 

I recall bigshot recommended some massive classical music download from Amazon and it looked pretty well recorded to me:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/619873/bargain-alert-instant-massive-classical-music-library-for-20-amazon-mp3

post #146 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Guys, different topic: what can we do to fight the loudness war without resorting to buying (pricey) formats other than CD?

It's a losing battle. We can only vote with wallet. The record studio these days will only cater to the masses and the masses prefer loudness. If you in a store, the demo systems are typical tuned to loud bass. I was at CES show, the Sennheiser booth's headphone demo had all their phone turned up to max bass and max volume. And this is supposedly a high end shop. All audiophile seem to have unlimited resources. People are willing to pay big bucks for after market cable. So if you are perfectly willing to pay $150 for a HD580 cable, then I will discontinue HD580 and introduce the HD600 and HD650. So you want better less compressed sound, and you're willing to pay $10. Here's the audiophile line of MP3 download for $10/song. Audiophiles are suckers. The only people that are willing to overpay.

 

I paid $800 for my first CD player in the late 80. Well at least it came with 2 demo CDs. But at that time there is no CD in Tower Record. I paid $30 a piece for the CD in the audiophile store. Oh well.

post #147 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Guys, different topic: what can we do to fight the loudness war without resorting to buying (pricey) formats other than CD?

 

Download the (sample) album first and use dynamic range meter to find out if its ok. If not, don't buy the cd.tongue.gif

post #148 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

For most modern recordings, where everything's either close mic'd or recorded straight into the console, the "soundstage" is created artificially by simple amplitude shifts (i.e. pan potting).

 

se

 

Hopefully that's bleedin' obvious to anyone who has an interest in how music is recorded at all, but it still reflects the engineer's interpretation of the location of the artists/instruments.

post #149 of 498

Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah it's a losing battle. Although I'm more of a rock/metal guy I don't dislike classical and will definitely look into those collections.

 

Imo the not buying idea kinda doesn't work, because they'll most likely blame file sharing for bad sales and not bad mastering.

 

My only hope is that more people notice what's going on and actually do something against it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNG80FZGkgM

 

edit: All devices and software players should enable ReplayGain by default, punishing heavily compressed tracks in volume. Then people would notice how bad the sound quality actually is.

 

edit2: Actually, I think that's the only way to successfully fight the loudness war. Recently ORF ("Austrian Broadcasting") switched to EBU R128 loudness normalization. Other european broadcasters have too. The latest Foobar2000 builds also use a R128 compliant loudness scanner.

This really punishes those annoying, loud, compressed commercials. beerchug.gif Now I'd love to see this loudness normalization for audio CDs too, but that's wishful thinking.


Edited by xnor - 9/10/12 at 1:32pm
post #150 of 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

 

Download the (sample) album first and use dynamic range meter to find out if its ok. If not, don't buy the cd.tongue.gif

 

I think judging music by how much DR it has is kind of silly. Some genres will intrinsically have less than others. I listen to plenty of music with let's say "less" than ideal DR, but I'm completely fine with it. My only real gripe with the Loudness War mastering is when it becomes so claustrophobic that I feel like I'm listening to a whole load of noise and clipping rather than music. You should be able to just listen and decide if the recording is brickwalled enough for you to avoid it.

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