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[New] Philips Fidelio X1 - Page 57

post #841 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by plakat View Post

 

So what would AC do to a speaker in your understanding? Why would you prefer DC with modulation?

To limit OT: the signal in case of music is actually AC. You're correct with the fact that the properties governing possible differences between cables with respect to music is primarily the impedance (and only to a lesser degree the DC resistance). Nevertheless I seriously doubt that switching cables makes a major difference, especially one worth a somewhat substantial amount of money. And No: I won't discuss that any further ;-)

Correct further No discussion on cables . However do you actual think that AC passes any further than the mains transformer and rectifier or switching mode power supply in amplification equipment???   Do you really want your speaker cones to try and go backwards every half cycle???     Just Google it if you think I'm wrong.  

post #842 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffra View Post

Do you really want your speaker cones to try and go backwards every half cycle??? 

That's exactly what they do.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post

can't you guys posting beyond your knowledge find a elementary "how things work" site to check your "facts" [edit: the post's got better even as I wrote so recent posters needn't get bent out of shape by this comment]

 

 

while "AC" literally stands for alternating current it is used more generally - alternating voltage is of course implied, and any signal that averages to zero may be described as "AC" - even when voltage and current aren't involved

 

sound is "AC" - sound waves propagate as alternating compression and rarefaction of the local air pressure - the average of the air pressure is not detected as sound - is not recorded and is not reproduced on playback - only the the "alternating" part of the air pressure (and velocity) is "audio signal" - usually only the AC components with frequency > 20 Hz (and less than ~ 20 KHz) are considered "audible"

 

dynamic transducers (most headphone drivers) create "alternating" sound pressure as their diaphragms move back and forth in response to the alternating audio frequency current in their voice coils - the average of the current and voltage should be as close to zero as possible - any small "DC" component to the drive signal forces the voice coil/diaphragm off center and may increase distortion; large DC signal may over heat the voice coil, melting plastic or glue and destroy the headphone

 

electronic amplifying devices amplify small audio input signals by modulating a DC, constant polarity power source in response the control signal - some circuits/devices have a DC component on their output that must be blocked/removed before the amplified alternating current/voltage signal reaches the headphone

 

the amplifier circuitry may get its power from a "DC" battery source or it may use the wall outlet "AC" mains line current and convert that into the DC needed by its internal signal amplifying components

but the signal reaching your headphone drivers is "AC"

 

 

a common gnd wire (and the standard TRS jack plug) does cause some L/R channel crosstalk - typically it is very low since the wire resistance is a small fraction of an Ohm and the headphone drivers many 10s of Ohms

 
post #843 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiR3D View Post

Not if you get fostex. hahaha

 

The problem being they will be veeery difficult to find again. 

 

The problem I have is my obsession to get the most out of them without screwing up their sound. At the moment I'm saving for:

Audio-GD Master 8 amp

Yulong D18 DAC (but since it can't handle bad sources, Looking at AudioLab MDAC or something else thats vinyl but not tubelike at all in presentation.)

 

And if I could afford it - Eddie Current Zana Duex.

Maybe I'll reconsider selling:) 

Good luck optimizing the D7000 king!

post #844 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangster View Post

That's exactly what they do.

 

 


 

Not sure who jcx is in your post but the modulation is on a dc voltage .  No AC at the output of you amplifier for goodness sake!!! Thats just mains hum!!!  The audio signal modulates the dc voltage rail of you amplifiers output system. .  If you have a Scope put it across an amp terminals and see if I'm wrong.  I Think jcx is describing the effect of modulation not AC.  AC is an Alternating Current/Voltage which swings around a Voltage null at full+/-100% variation and normally known as Sinusoidal.  Music is anything but sinusoidal.  

 

Anyway we seem to be yet again drifting from the original thread idea of reviewing X1''s.  So I will not respond to anymore posts on things not associated with X1's . There I've said it!!!

post #845 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by korzena View Post

Maybe I'll reconsider selling:) 

Good luck optimizing the D7000 king!

I have effectively turned my wallet into the female dog in a dodgey hardcore punishment porn film.

post #846 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffra View Post

Just Being Pedantic its a DC voltage with a waveform corresponding to the Music being listened to. You really do not want to let AC near your speaker/headphone coils!!!!!

 

Actually, it is AC, frequency depending on the sound being played. DC would move the cone into one direction only, thus burning out the driver fast. You don't want DC near your headphones! Measure DC at the amps outputs and it should be only +-20mV or less, up to +-120mV on bigger speaker amps.

 

In essence this is why "directional" speaker wires are complete "bull..."

 

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

 

;)

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffra View Post

Not sure who jcx is in your post but the modulation is on a dc voltage .  No AC at the output of you amplifier for goodness sake!!! Thats just mains hum!!!  The audio signal modulates the dc voltage rail of you amplifiers output system. .  If you have a Scope put it across an amp terminals and see if I'm wrong.  I Think jcx is describing the effect of modulation not AC.  AC is an Alternating Current/Voltage which swings around a Voltage null at full+/-100% variation and normally known as Sinusoidal.  Music is anything but sinusoidal.  

 

Anyway we seem to be yet again drifting from the original thread idea of reviewing X1''s.  So I will not respond to anymore posts on things not associated with X1's . There I've said it!!!


The X1, unlike all the other headphones and speakers in the world use AC. ;) Ok I'm joking.

 

Music, as such a tone, which is an oscillation, moves the microphone diaphram. This is converted into current, + everythime the mics cone moves in and - every time it goes out. So, a 50 Hz vibration produces 50 Hz alternating current. Music is just many 10000s of various AC moving your headphones cones.

 

DC, modulated or not, will only move the cone into one direction. This doesn't make any sense, except for testing the polarity of drivers. Hook up a small battery to a driver and it will move either in out out. Lets say the way you connected it, it moves out. if you  reverse the poles of the battery, it will move in. If you do this 50 times a second, you have a 50Hz "hum". To this 10000 times per second and you have a high beep tone.

 

I don't want to spam off topic but in this hobby, the basics need to be understood.


Edited by ev13wt - 1/31/13 at 3:45pm
post #847 of 4344

My mind was blown.

 

I'm trying to figure if it was by model or a ParaOrdnance 14-45

post #848 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ev13wt View Post

 

Actually, it is AC, frequency depending on the sound being played. DC would move the cone into one direction only, thus burning out the driver fast. You don't want DC near your headphones! Measure DC at the amps outputs and it should be only +-20mV or less, up to +-120mV on bigger speaker amps.

 

In essence this is why "directional" speaker wires are complete "bull..."

 

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

 

;)

 

 

 


The X1, unlike all the other headphones and speakers in the world use AC. ;) Ok I'm joking.

 

Music, as such a tone, which is an oscillation, moves the microphone diaphram. This is converted into current, + everythime the mics cone moves in and - every time it goes out. So, a 50 Hz vibration produces 50 Hz alternating current. Music is just many 10000s of various AC moving your headphones cones.

 

DC, modulated or not, will only move the cone into one direction. This doesn't make any sense, except for testing the polarity of drivers. Hook up a small battery to a driver and it will move either in out out. Lets say the way you connected it, it moves out. if you  reverse the poles of the battery, it will move in. If you do this 50 times a second, you have a 50Hz "hum". To this 10000 times per second and you have a high beep tone.

 

I don't want to spam off topic but in this hobby, the basics need to be understood.

 

OK the current varies in accordance with the music/sound but it is applied via a DC voltage across the speakers. I didn't say it was a flat DC voltage/current otherwise you probably would melt the speaker coil if you didn't dissipate the heat that effect would create.

Google Images for  a typical power amp schematic.  Not a lot of AC anything applied across the speakers I think. 

 

  Here is an example   there are many    http://electroschematics.com/653/200w-audio-amplifier/

 

As you say the Basics need to be understood even as a hobby.   I have built enough audio amps years ago to know these things.  

 

Think I will stay clear of cables with directionality at this point, not going there tonight. Likely needs another thread on a different forum for that debate.

post #849 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffra View Post

 

OK the current varies in accordance with the music/sound but it is applied via a DC voltage across the speakers. I didn't say it was a flat DC voltage/current otherwise you probably would melt the speaker coil if you didn't dissipate the heat that effect would create.

Google Images for  a typical power amp schematic.  Not a lot of AC anything applied across the speakers I think. 

 

  Here is an example   there are many    http://electroschematics.com/653/200w-audio-amplifier/

 

As you say the Basics need to be understood even as a hobby.   I have built enough audio amps years ago to know these things.  

 

Think I will stay clear of cables with directionality at this point, not going there tonight. Likely needs another thread on a different forum for that debate.

 

MAde a thread in the full sized main forum, as it is the most frequented. http://www.head-fi.org/t/649016/ac-or-dc-how-headphones-and-amps-work

 

Lets discuss this and get to the bottom of it. First off, you can explain to me AC and DC coupled amplifiers.

 

AC Coupling

  • An amplifier with reactive components in the signal path, such as transformers or capacitors, blocks DC and permits only AC to pass through. Amplifiers with these components are called AC-coupled.

 
post #850 of 4344

Just got mine 20 minutes ago. I would not say they have more bass impact than the XB700, but the bass is nice for an open air headphone.
 

Forgot to quote the reply.


Edited by dwdesign - 2/1/13 at 9:48am
post #851 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabse View Post

is the bass on these more impactful (mid) or boomy sub bass... are they quite airy/immersive in order to make trance sound amazing? hopefully it has more bass impact than xb700

 

also, these will be fine with e17 right?

 

need these answered before i pull the trigger for $350 shipped

 

Just got mine 20 minutes ago. I would not say they have more bass impact than the XB700, but the bass is nice for an open air headphone.
 

post #852 of 4344

Left: Sony MDR-XB700 | Right: Philip Fidelio X1

 

 

post #853 of 4344

Ohmygodthesweetnessandthebeautyofthex1omg

post #854 of 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgelai57 View Post

I bought the X1 here in Singapore last week for USD270. Now I'm tempted by the L1 for USD150. Has anyone listened to both and can comment on the differences?

Hi george, where do you get it in Singapore for USD270?

post #855 of 4344

How *good* does the Fidelio X1 sound compared to my HD 650? I haven't heard it yet.

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