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The Centrance HiFi M8 thread - Page 51

post #751 of 5176

For me the question is moot, since I've already sacrificed the 1/8" HP port for the micro BNC SPDIF coax out.  And the golden adapter.


Edited by jacal01 - 11/29/12 at 7:35am
post #752 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

For me the question is moot, since I've already sacrificed the 1/8" HP port for the micro BNC SPDIF coax out.  And the golden adapter.

^ This is an option?

Just to clarify the argument for LO versus 1/8 HO. By tolerating a 1/4 adapter plug that just sits passively in the 1/4 jack and would only become an issue when removing it for a 1/4 headphone plug, you gain the following advantage:

1-Use of the M8 as a DAC only
2-Ability to AB the M8's integrated amp section versus any other portable, transportable or desktop amp for comparison/potential upgrade.
3-Ability to use the DAC in the above scenario as a matter of convenience and flexibility. Those who have attended many audio gatherings will appreciate the flexibility I think.

Functionally you get two different devices:

1-HifiM8 w/o LO = DAC/Amp, Pre-amp, iDevice transport/dock w/ XLR, 1/4, 1/8 jacks.
2-HifiM8 w/ LO + plug adapter = DAC/Amp, Pre-amp, iDevice transport/dock, DAC. w/ XLR, 1/4, 1/8 jacks.

Remember too, the number of self powered portable/transportable DACs is relatively small. So the HifiM8 now becomes a viable alternative for those looking for non USB dependent portable DAC w/ a battery. You've basically done what the CLAS + Rx amp combo does for half the price w/ more features and more flexibility by implementing a LO. Whether this can be done in the design is still unknown.


To clarify the USB input then, Android and USB on the go devices would use the same USB jack found on the far left of the iDevice version? Then the only difference is swapping the iDevice USB jack for SPDIF input. Thus anyone using the SPDIF LX version could also connect any iDevice to the LX USB jack if it works w/ the camera connection kit?

Btw, is there a price difference between the LX and non LX M8? Some confusing posts about this in the thread.
Edited by Akula1321 - 11/29/12 at 8:30am
post #753 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akula1321 View Post

^ This is an option?

Not really, no.  Let's just say that production is not being set up for a coax out configuration.

 

But I did vote for analog line out way back when, the quality of the volume pot being the question.  Michael stated that there should be no discernible difference.

 

Don't forget, you're also getting asynch 24/192 USB transport function with the optical SPDIF out.


Edited by jacal01 - 11/29/12 at 8:55am
post #754 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akula1321 View Post


^ This is an option? So the HifiM8 now becomes a viable alternative for those looking for non USB dependent portable DAC w/ a battery. You've basically done what the CLAS + Rx amp combo does for half the price w/ more features and more flexibility by implementing a LO. Whether this can be done in the design is still unknown.

I may not understand your question.

As I understand it for the LX and i~device the M8 can be used;  a) a computer USB DAC > connected to a AMP  b) a computer USB DAC/AMP for headphones c) a battery operated DAC > to an AMP d) a battery powered DAC/AMP for headphones.

post #755 of 5176

 I would not be inconvenienced with a 1/4" with 1/8" adapter and line out at the 1/8" jack.  This configuration would make the device slightly more versatile for all.  That said, just my personal usage, I will be fine without line out.  That said, line out is a useful function, and one that might be expected on a device of this caliber?

 

OK, I think I'll sit back and let the dust settle on this one.  I'll be OK either way...

post #756 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post


Larry, actually we have already designed a modular amp, however swapping the jacks is not so easy, this requires a soldering iron and other tools, so it's definitely not for "on the fly" adjustment and is rather a factory option. This is why we feel that the customer should make a choice based on their existing headphones. We will make a unit for them.

 

When you first mentioned the different jack options, this is the idea I had...

- faceplates with the jacks mounted

- the jacks connected to a pinstrip or short cable (possible a small pcb on the jacks if space/mounting options allow)

- this connects to sockets on the board (or vice versa)

- obviously which pins are connected depends on the jacks used

- so this would allow for changing faceplates and thus jacks, as all the soldering is already done on the faceplate, the rest is just plug 'n play

 

Granted this is all easier said than done. 'Twas just the idea in my head.

post #757 of 5176
I would prefer to have a true line out. But it won't be a big deal for me if it doesn't happen. I would be very happy if it did.
post #758 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyrn View Post

I would prefer to have a true line out. But it won't be a big deal for me if it doesn't happen. I would be very happy if it did.

 

+1

post #759 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyrn View Post

I would prefer to have a true line out. But it won't be a big deal for me if it doesn't happen. I would be very happy if it did.

 

+2

post #760 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

> "running analog output through the pot section is equivalent to LO quality.
This point is well taken. I'll think about this...
We need consensus. Would most ppl prefer that the 3.5mm (aka 1/8") combo jack had this: [line level out and SPDIF out] and NOT this: [headphone out and SPDIF out] ? This would require that you always used the tiny golden adapter with IEMs and plugged them into the 1/4" jack rather than into the 3.5mm jack.
I don't know if it's still possible to make this change. This depends on the state of our analog board, but I'd like to hear popular opinion...

 

Personally, I'd rather see the 1/8" as a fixed 2v line out, and use the tiny golden adapter in the 1/4" jack for 1/8" headphones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post


Larry, actually we have already designed a modular amp, however swapping the jacks is not so easy, this requires a soldering iron and other tools, so it's definitely not for "on the fly" adjustment and is rather a factory option. This is why we feel that the customer should make a choice based on their existing headphones. We will make a unit for them.
Changing cables out (or adapters) seems much closer to the "on the fly" modularity you speak of. Having seen your adapter bag, I know that you already have every adapter under the sun and can make any connection happen wink.gif

 

I wouldn't have it any other way.  I have this compulsion to be prepared for every circumstance.  It must be a disease that falls somewhere between OCD and Type-A anal retentive...

post #761 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by aamefford View Post

I do not require line out capability. I started my centrance gear with a Dacport LX and traded for a Dacport with volume pot. When I did use it as a dac into another amp, I set the volume at 1 o'clock. I could not hear a difference. I am unlikely to use the M8 as a dac feeding another amp. There are better options for this IMHO. The amp in the M8 should be sufficient stand alone for transportable use with the majority of headphones, including the likes of the HD6xx and at least the more easily driven orthos and the beyer 600 ohms. If it is not, the form factor as a dac and idevice digital output device is just too big to require an outboard amp. I am betting the M8 will be a fine stand alone dac/amp for at least my needs. This is why I preordered. One man's opinion of course.

 

Well, there you go again, posting something that makes perfect sense.

post #762 of 5176

> To clarify the USB input then, Android and USB on the go devices would use the same USB jack found on the far left of the iDevice version?

Yes, that's true. All USB sources (computers, appropriate Android phones) would be connected to the USB jack on the left. An iPad with a Camera Connector Kit (CCK) could also be connected to the USB jack on the left, but it would be bulkier than connecting it to the iDevice input directly, without the CCK.

 

> Then the only difference is swapping the iDevice USB jack for SPDIF input.

Correct. The LX model substitutes the iDevice input for the SPDIF in Optical. No other changes.

 

> Thus anyone using the SPDIF LX version could also connect any iDevice to the LX USB jack if it works w/ the camera connection kit?

Yes, see above. Except not every iDevice supports the CCK.

 

> - faceplates with the jacks mounted

> - the jacks connected to a pinstrip or short cable (possible a small pcb on the jacks if space/mounting options allow)

> - this connects to sockets on the board (or vice versa)

Great idea and similar to what we have, but in the interest of robustness of road-worthiness, we chose to go with soldered connections, rather than plug-in connections. Soldered connections offer the highest amount of reliability. Anything that has the potential of being undone, will be eventually undone. We learned this the hard way, having tested a lot of products for shaking, dropping, running a car over, etc. I've got that mentality from years of "boot camp" training at Shure, back in the old days, and won't design anything to a lesser standard of reliability. It's just not worth the service hassle in my mind -- you'd need to send the box back, we'd need to repair it, etc... Why?  I know this sounds kind of funny in the Home audio space, since people aren't so used to mission-critical performance requirements here as they are in Broadcast and Recording domains, but that's what you get. 

 

In either case, rest assured, you are certainly getting more bang for the buck, not less ;)


Edited by mgoodman - 11/29/12 at 11:02pm
post #763 of 5176

my vote goes for a "line level out and SPDIF out" combo plug.

post #764 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

Great idea and similar to what we have, but in the interest of robustness of road-worthiness, we chose to go with soldered connections, rather than plug-in connections. Soldered connections offer the highest amount of reliability. Anything that has the potential of being undone, will be eventually undone. We learned this the hard way, having tested a lot of products for shaking, dropping, running a car over, etc. I've got that mentality from years of "boot camp" training at Shure, back in the old days, and won't design anything to a lesser standard of reliability. It's just not worth the service hassle in my mind -- you'd need to send the box back, we'd need to repair it, etc... Why?  I know this sounds kind of funny in the Home audio space, since people aren't so used to mission-critical performance requirements here as they are in Broadcast and Recording domains, but that's what you get. 

 

In either case, rest assured, you are certainly getting more bang for the buck, not less ;)

True. This just happened to me yesterday. While trying to diagnose the problem with my Dyson fan, the support team asked me to dissemble to the motor right away without following the step by step procedure. A hinge on the fan broke in the process, and now I have the motor and the 'loop amplifier' to send back for repairs. Troublesome packing such a huge thing. Then as Michael mentioned above, all the hassles for the service team. Things in the past were make to last. Nowadays it's tough to find good, lasting design partly due to planned obsolescence.

 

Thank you CEntrance!

post #765 of 5176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

Ha-ha, the initial survey indicated that this connector came in last (or was it even not in the running?) You live, you learn. We will release what we have. Then, if we have any force left in us, we will see what to do next.


If I remember correctly there wasn't an option for the mini 4 pin XLR in the survey.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

We need consensus. Would most ppl prefer that the 3.5mm (aka 1/8") combo jack had this: [line level out and SPDIF out] and NOT this: [headphone out and SPDIF out] ? This would require that you always used the tiny golden adapter with IEMs and plugged them into the 1/4" jack rather than into the 3.5mm jack.

 

From my perspective it's a six of one and half dozen of the other kind of scenario. For everyday use the 3.5mm as a headphone output would preferable but I could also see scenarios where it being a line out would be useful as well. I guess if I had to make a call though I'd prefer to see it as a headphone output.

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