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The Centrance HiFi M8 thread - Page 50

post #736 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie182 View Post

Ok guys and mickeal, couple of questions here.
I'm on the preorder list (nice t-shirt by the way , thanks centrance team ;-))
I intend to use the flexibility of the hifi-m8 either to use it as a simple link between my ipod classic and my cans, and also to use it as nice source to connect to my amp in my speaker rig.
with this idear in mind, I went to the dual 3 pin xlr combo jack. But I've just realised that with the dual combo jack there is not the free space available to also have the 1/8 audio/optical spdif output ...arghhh ;-(
So now I'm wondering if I souldn't go with the 4 pin xlr to be able to have the optical output option. But is it possible to make a custom cable 4pin xlr (hifi-m8 output) to dual 3 pin xlr (speaker amp input) without sonic degradation? or at least something really subtle? I guess previously mentionned moon audio - alo -Qcable or other skills DIY could do such a cable with sufficient quality parts? Or is the technical and real world statement that the dual 3pin xlr output should be prefered with a speaker amp and rig?
I noticed there are 3 pin xlr (balanced) to rca (single ended) cable available? If connecting to the rca input of a speaker amp, Is there any benefit to use a balanced signal (4pin xlr output) instead of the single ended stereo jack?
Mickeal, with all your work on idevise with the hifi-m8, will we have the pleasure to see released a new dac mini px with integrated ipod dock? (that will kick ass!!!)
best regards everyone and thanks in advance for the advises;-)

It would be relatively easy to build a 4-pin XLR to dual 3-pin XLR with minimal degradation.  Any of the commercial builders or competent DIYers should be able to help you out.  

post #737 of 5057

In the pre-order email from CEntrance, neither of the two options for faceplates included the 1/8 inch combo connector.

> I ordered the [4-pin XLR and 1/4"] version.  Will the 1/8 inch not be included in the first production run?

Yes, it will. Today's blog sheds more light on the subject. The post will be published at midnight (about 15 minutes from now I think)

 

http://centrance.com/products/new/blog/

 

Post titled "Combo Jack Arrives"


Edited by mgoodman - 11/28/12 at 8:58pm
post #738 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

 

I'd pay a little extra to make it happen.  

Ha-ha, the initial survey indicated that this connector came in last (or was it even not in the running?) You live, you learn. We will release what we have. Then, if we have any force left in us, we will see what to do next.

post #739 of 5057

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

...if Michael hasn't become thoroughly disgusted with the Forum riffraff baying for more mods (myself included) by then, and stops soliciting input...

 

Actually, this is a lot of fun. Thoroughly enjoying the process :)

post #740 of 5057

> Michael, with all your work on iDevice with the hifi-m8, will we have the pleasure to see released a new dac mini px with integrated ipod dock? (that will kick ass!!!)

Thank you and it is a great idea that has been considered, but first things first -- Let's get the M8 out :)

post #741 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

Ha-ha, the initial survey indicated that this connector came in last (or was it even not in the running?) You live, you learn. We will release what we have. Then, if we have any force left in us, we will see what to do next.

 

I haven't read the whole thread back to back except back when I first jumped in to get caught up.  I honestly don't have a good feel as to whether the desire for mini XLR is just half a dozen or dozen of us vocal minority, or if there is a larger number of us looking for one.  In other words, do we represent a piece of the market worth serving, or are we just a few vocal rabble rousers?

 

Barring a mini 4 pin XLR, I will stay with the standard 4 pin XLR for the M8, and use an adapter to a mini XLR for the cable.  This seems the second most convenient.  For that matter, I would still be using a 1/4" or 1/8" to mini XLR for single ended anyway.  So, I'd like a mini XLR but can definitely live without it.  It does seem most convenient to terminate the amp end of the headphone cable with the mini XLR, and then build adapters as necessary for one's amp connections.  Of course if the M8 had a mini XLR, that would be one less adapter wink.gif...

 

EDIT - For the record, my initial interest in the RSA / Kobiconn connector has waned.  My final configuration will most likely remain standard 4 pin XLR unless the mini XLR becomes available.  Also for the record, as FraGGleR noted below - looking forward to the HIFI-M8 very much.  Thank you for the hard work, and thank you for the opportunity to be involved in the functional design of the product.  I have been both watching and participating with great interest, both in the product and in the "crowd source" design process of the functional configuration(s).


Edited by aamefford - 11/28/12 at 9:51pm
post #742 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

Ha-ha, the initial survey indicated that this connector came in last (or was it even not in the running?) You live, you learn. We will release what we have. Then, if we have any force left in us, we will see what to do next.

I was late to the thread, but as I understand it, the mini-XLR wasn't even included in the survey. Oh well. Still very much looking forward to the M8 and appreciate the hard work on your end.
post #743 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post


I was late to the thread, but as I understand it, the mini-XLR wasn't even included in the survey.

 

And yet the rather unknown lemo was.

 

That said, there was a rather compelling argument made for the lemo (by qusp I think).

post #744 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by aamefford View Post

 

I haven't read the whole thread back to back except back when I first jumped in to get caught up.  I honestly don't have a good feel as to whether the desire for mini XLR is just half a dozen or dozen of us vocal minority, or if there is a larger number of us looking for one.  In other words, do we represent a piece of the market worth serving, or are we just a few vocal rabble rousers?

 

Barring a mini 4 pin XLR, I will stay with the standard 4 pin XLR for the M8, and use an adapter to a mini XLR for the cable.  This seems the second most convenient.  For that matter, I would still be using a 1/4" or 1/8" to mini XLR for single ended anyway.  So, I'd like a mini XLR but can definitely live without it.  It does seem most convenient to terminate the amp end of the headphone cable with the mini XLR, and then build adapters as necessary for one's amp connections.  Of course if the M8 had a mini XLR, that would be one less adapter wink.gif...

 

EDIT - For the record, my initial interest in the RSA / Kobiconn connector has waned.  My final configuration will most likely remain standard 4 pin XLR unless the mini XLR becomes available.  Also for the record, as FraGGleR noted below - looking forward to the HIFI-M8 very much.  Thank you for the hard work, and thank you for the opportunity to be involved in the functional design of the product.  I have been both watching and participating with great interest, both in the product and in the "crowd source" design process of the functional configuration(s).

 

I am impressed by CEntrance/Michael letting us have a voice in the design process and offerring so many options.  Well done and Thank You, guys! I will be sticking with the 4-pin xlr configuration. I am looking forward to getting my hands on the M8.

post #745 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnero View Post


So you're terminating your headphone cables with mini-XLR's then?

 

So far only when I'm buying a new detachable cable for a headphone that will benefit from a balanced amp.

post #746 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoodman View Post

> I've been a bit confused by the 3.5mm jack, will the analog signal be a line out or variable out?

It's a combo jack. The SPDIF out is the digital part, the headphone output is the analog part. The analog part is a mirror of the 1/4" jack. We decided against making a separate line-level output, because the output is so clean anyway, you could drive external amps with the output of the headphone amp.

Now this is a real shame. There is no way running analog output through the pot section is equivalent to LO quality. This decision in my opinion gives greater consideration to those too lazy to use a tiny 1/8 adapter plug over those who have amps that might be more transparent and capable than the integrated amp in the M8. Even yourself and others concede the amp section will struggle to compete w/ the DAC Mini let alone even potentially higher end amps/rigs. Two pots is never better than one even in many cases when running wide open.

Also, if you could clarify the iDevice v. Android v. USB to go option. You lkep mentioning either iDevice v. SPDIF for input using Android? USB on the go isn't a Sony Phillips standard correct? I'm not quite sure what the non-iDevice input jack is exactly. A USB port or SPDIF?
post #747 of 5057

My feeling is that the full-size 4-pin XLR is still the current standard for desktop balanced amps, with dual 3-pin falling out of favor.  I don't think that mini-XLR is even close yet to supplanting the regular sized 4-pin XLR.  

 

I had always considered the mini-XLR as simply a way to separate the main headphone cable from the plug, without adding a lot of bulk to the cable in between.  It was a way to make it easier to choose the right plug for my cable, to match the amp I'm using.  I hadn't even considered putting a mini-XLR on the amp itself.  I have a few headphone cables that only have full-size 4-pin and if the amp had a mini-XLR then I'd need an adapter to convert that to a full-size jack.  I've already done a similar thing with an adapter than converts my RSA jack to a full-size 4-pin XLR.

 

With all the suggestions here for custom jack selections, maybe someday Michael can design a modular amp that can be changed on the fly by plugging different components into it to give it the desired configuration.  Michael, is there a patent out for that already?

post #748 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akula1321 View Post


Also, if you could clarify the iDevice v. Android v. USB to go option. You lkep mentioning either iDevice v. SPDIF for input using Android? USB on the go isn't a Sony Phillips standard correct? I'm not quite sure what the non-iDevice input jack is exactly. A USB port or SPDIF?
The deal with android is this -- not all android phones are the same. Few support USB audio on the USB jack. Others have the USB jack, but it's used for charging and doesn't know how to send audio, so it's not a fully functioning USB jack. There is an excellent thread here that discusses this at length. I don't have it handy, but others do.

Those android phones that DO support USB audio may be connected to the USB input of either M8.

There are two options with the inputs on the mate: [USB / iDevice] -- this is the regular HiFi-M8 and [USB / SPDIF optical] - this is the LX. Note that both options have USB, so you can use either with Android (the one that supports USB audio). The SPDIF input on the HiFi-M8 LX is for using the LX as a DAC with SPDIF input. This input has nothing to do with android. We had the extra panel space which was occupied by the iDevice jack in the regular M8 and thought it would be useful to put some other input in its place. That's how the LX was born.

Sorry I wasn't clear about this from the start.

Now on to your other point:
> "running analog output through the pot section is equivalent to LO quality.

This point is well taken. I'll think about this...

We need consensus. Would most ppl prefer that the 3.5mm (aka 1/8") combo jack had this: [line level out and SPDIF out] and NOT this: [headphone out and SPDIF out] ? This would require that you always used the tiny golden adapter with IEMs and plugged them into the 1/4" jack rather than into the 3.5mm jack.

I don't know if it's still possible to make this change. This depends on the state of our analog board, but I'd like to hear popular opinion...
Edited by mgoodman - 11/29/12 at 1:59am
post #749 of 5057
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post

My feeling is that the full-size 4-pin XLR is still the current standard for desktop balanced amps, with dual 3-pin falling out of favor.  I don't think that mini-XLR is even close yet to supplanting the regular sized 4-pin XLR.  

With all the suggestions here for custom jack selections, maybe someday Michael can design a modular amp that can be changed on the fly by plugging different components into it to give it the desired configuration.  Michael, is there a patent out for that already?

Larry, actually we have already designed a modular amp, however swapping the jacks is not so easy, this requires a soldering iron and other tools, so it's definitely not for "on the fly" adjustment and is rather a factory option. This is why we feel that the customer should make a choice based on their existing headphones. We will make a unit for them.

Changing cables out (or adapters) seems much closer to the "on the fly" modularity you speak of. Having seen your adapter bag, I know that you already have every adapter under the sun and can make any connection happen wink.gif
post #750 of 5057
I do not require line out capability. I started my centrance gear with a Dacport LX and traded for a Dacport with volume pot. When I did use it as a dac into another amp, I set the volume at 1 o'clock. I could not hear a difference. I am unlikely to use the M8 as a dac feeding another amp. There are better options for this IMHO. The amp in the M8 should be sufficient stand alone for transportable use with the majority of headphones, including the likes of the HD6xx and at least the more easily driven orthos and the beyer 600 ohms. If it is not, the form factor as a dac and idevice digital output device is just too big to require an outboard amp. I am betting the M8 will be a fine stand alone dac/amp for at least my needs. This is why I preordered. One man's opinion of course.
Edited by aamefford - 11/29/12 at 7:06am
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