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post #4726 of 4968

Interesting rumour.

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/hd-audio-ios-8-new-in-ear-headphones-lightning/

[quote]Currently, iOS 7's stock Music app cannot play high quality 24-bit audio files that contain a sampling frequency beyond 48 kHz. Additionally, while third-party apps such as Onkyo's HF Player and FLAC Player are able to play said audio files, users are still limited to onboard playback at a 16-bit rate. Apple is also said to be preparing an upgraded Lightning cable to accommodate high-definition playback on Made For iPhone (MFi) audio accessories, although it isn't clear when the company would introduce the updated wire.[/quote]

post #4727 of 4968
Doesn't make sense. They just introduced the lightning connector recently.
post #4728 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post

Doesn't make sense. They just introduced the lightning connector recently.


In a previous post regarding potential 24/96 iDevice upgrade, I mentioned that Apple would likely need to revise the firmware for both the iDevice itself, and in the case of a Lightning equipped device, probably also the SoC firmware within the Lightning connector.

 

Maybe the original Lightning design is not firmware upgradable, meaning anyone who wants the new/forthcoming compatibility needs a newly revised Lightning cable too.

 

That of course won't make people happy if they have to buy another cable, but it does seem at least plausible.

post #4729 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by eron View Post
 

Interesting rumour.

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/hd-audio-ios-8-new-in-ear-headphones-lightning/

[quote]Currently, iOS 7's stock Music app cannot play high quality 24-bit audio files that contain a sampling frequency beyond 48 kHz. Additionally, while third-party apps such as Onkyo's HF Player and FLAC Player are able to play said audio files, users are still limited to onboard playback at a 16-bit rate. Apple is also said to be preparing an upgraded Lightning cable to accommodate high-definition playback on Made For iPhone (MFi) audio accessories, although it isn't clear when the company would introduce the updated wire.[/quote]


If true it is certainly annoying that Apple plans to have this working only on iOS8.

 

I know it's a business and Apple wants to sell more devices, however older hardware such as the iPad2 are clearly capable of 24/192 playback with 3rd party apps such as the Onkyo HF Player right now via the CCK adapter to a USB DAC.

 

To exclude those devices from Apple supported standard compatibility via firmware lockout, when they have no hardware limitation that would compromise the "user experience" (always Apple's excuse) wouldn't be well intentioned behavior by Apple in treating their customers fairly.

post #4730 of 4968

If true, Apple is proving that digital cables do make a difference!  :eek:

 

This is a bit crazy if true, though.  It will create some customer confusion unless there is some indicator somewhere that the hi-res audio is getting through the cable.  There is usually no way to know what the destination sampling rate is on the playback device.  Although, I guess that could be shown in software.  

 

If the cable is different internally, they should try to make the cable look physically different if the connector is backward-compatible (like other digital cabling standards that have been upgraded -- standard USB, HDMI, Ethernet).  If they change the connector physically, that would mean buying a new device too.  

 

Finally, do I have to buy new cables to get this to work?   I am holding off until WWDC.

 

On the short-Lightning cable front, I whittled down the plastic around my Amazon Lightning cable.  Now it fits in my case for my iPhone 5, so I can now pair it with the M8.  Let's hope that hi-res works through it...

 

… or else I'm going with Expat's solution and getting a short USB dongle and Lightning CCK. I know this works already as I have the CCK.  I tested the sample rates by using the optical digital out from the M8 to another DAC which shows the internal sampling rate.  When I used the iDevice USB A connection, I got low-res at the digital out, but when I use the CCK and USB B connection, I get hi-res at the digital out.  I used the FiiO E17's optical input to show this.  Interestingly, the E17 shows 16-bit/48kHz sampling for low res (but I don't think it has a 44.1kHz display), and it shows 24-bit/192kHz sampling for hi-res.  I'll have to try a more-reliable input device like a home theater receiver to see what it says about bit depths/sample rates.


Edited by jazzman7 - 5/14/14 at 7:32am
post #4731 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post
 


If true it is certainly annoying that Apple plans to have this working only on iOS8.

 

I know it's a business and Apple wants to sell more devices, however older hardware such as the iPad2 are clearly capable of 24/192 playback with 3rd party apps such as the Onkyo HF Player right now via the CCK adapter to a USB DAC.

 

To exclude those devices from Apple supported standard compatibility via firmware lockout, when they have no hardware limitation that would compromise the "user experience" (always Apple's excuse) wouldn't be well intentioned behavior by Apple in treating their customers fairly.

 

My wife's iPad 2 works fine with IOS7, where have you heard it will not be supported with IOS8?

 

And on the Lightning connector; I bet it would just be the MFI chip that's upgraded inside, allowing older cables to still be used for charging and syncing, just not for hi-res support...

post #4732 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtUglyJeff View Post
 

 

My wife's iPad 2 works fine with IOS7, where have you heard it will not be supported with IOS8?

 

And on the Lightning connector; I bet it would just be the MFI chip that's upgraded inside, allowing older cables to still be used for charging and syncing, just not for hi-res support...


Certainly the older Lightning cables will still be useful for charging/syncing etc... I don't see why not.

 

I didn't mean to suggest iOS8 won't be available to the iPad2, it may or may not and I'm not sure Apple has announced specific device level support for iOS8 as yet.

 

But they do eventually exclude certain "older" devices from further iOS updates, my iPod Touch 2nd Gen. updates ended at iOS 4.2 for instance, so that day will come for iPad2 at some point.

 

But if they make it work only through a new improved Lightning cable and not the 30 pin dock connector, that will exclude iPad2 and various other iDevices that are otherwise hardware-ready.


Edited by MikeyFresh - 5/14/14 at 11:49am
post #4733 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post
 


Certainly the older Lightning cables will still be useful for charging/syncing etc... I don't see why not.

 

I didn't mean to suggest iOS8 won't be available to the iPad2, it may or may not and I'm not sure Apple has announced specific device level support for iOS8 as yet.

 

But they do eventually exclude certain "older" devices from further iOS updates, my iPod Touch 2nd Gen. updates ended at iOS 4.2 for instance, so that day will come for iPad2 at some point.

 

But if they make it work only through an new improved Lightning cable and not the 30 pin dock connector, that will exclude iPad2 and various other iDevices that are otherwise hardware-ready.

 

I fully understand.  My 4th gen iPod Touch doesn't run IOS7 either.  I'm chomping at the bit for an iPod that runs the most current IOS and has a minimum storage of 128gb.  The 128gb iPad Mini has been tempting me because its the closest offering to what I want...

post #4734 of 4968
This really bums me out seeing notifications that new posts have been made in this thread, only to open it and discover more ios discussion, when android does 24/192 with less clutter available right now. Perhaps a thread should be started just for m8 ios HD discussion?
post #4735 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayza View Post

This really bums me out seeing notifications that new posts have been made in this thread, only to open it and discover more ios discussion, when android does 24/192 with less clutter available right now. Perhaps a thread should be started just for m8 ios HD discussion?
Sorry to so burden you with a few iOS posts.

I didn't realize it was backbreaking work for you to look past iOS posts if they are of no value to you.

You should, however, check your facts. You are wrong, but I won't bother with an exchange detailing how many ways in which you are wrong, seeing as you are likely both an Apple hater and an Android fanboy, that serves no purpose.

To see how wrong you are, visit the Android thread on this forum, and specifically take a look at the great work @DanBa has done in documenting Andoid device compatibility (or lack thereof) with either hi-rez audio or for that matter USB audio.

While this might all be changing with KitKat, and has already changed with both the LG G2, and Samsung Note3, that hardly qualifies as uniform standard Android support for either hi-rez or USB audio.
post #4736 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post

Sorry to so burden you with a few iOS posts.

I didn't realize it was backbreaking work for you to look past iOS posts if they are of no value to you.

You should, however, check your facts. You are wrong, but I won't bother with an exchange detailing how many ways in which you are wrong, seeing as you are likely both an Apple hater and an Android fanboy, that serves no purpose.

To see how wrong you are, visit the Android thread on this forum, and specifically take a look at the great work @DanBa has done in documenting Andoid device compatibility (or lack thereof) with either hi-rez audio or for that matter USB audio.

While this might all be changing with KitKat, and has already changed with both the LG G2, and Samsung Note3, that hardly qualifies as uniform standard Android support for either hi-rez or USB audio.

I thought I made my post rather inoffensive and constructive criticism of the past couple months being mostly ios hd support in this thread. You've gone the next step to insult me with inaccurate assumptions. I am not complaining about being burdened, but just noting that it bums me out to open the thread, only to see more of the same speculation, about one feature of a much larger product. It is fine for the thread to stay that way. I was just suggesting another option. One where the lead post could summarize developments perhaps, and there could be pages and pages of glorious ios specific proprietary licensed support discussion.

Now, on to USB audio support in android, which has been strengthened since the s3 phone got jelly bean or newer (dating to 7/2012 I believe).
People buying a $700 dac/amp likely are powering similarly or higher priced headphones/iems. This would likely make a change to another dap or phone source an acceptable measure. One such option is a Note 3 or an S4/S5 (although I don't know much on the S series of compatibility). The note 3 supports every dac I've thrown at it (six of them), and it supports them in 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96khz, as well as 16/24bit (these are the limits of my dacs, and my m8 is in the mail, so 192 is personally unconfirmed).

In the event the m8 doesn't work with your phone, try a fiio e17 (~$100, rather widely compatible with androids) and slap it in between the dap and the m8. Use its optical out and voila! Yes it's a bit more money, but $100 on a total expense of close to 2 grand for some might not really matter.

So that is my proposed solution to getting hd portability with (likely) less clutter than ios.

Go webOS!
post #4737 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post
 


If true it is certainly annoying that Apple plans to have this working only on iOS8.

 

I know it's a business and Apple wants to sell more devices, however older hardware such as the iPad2 are clearly capable of 24/192 playback with 3rd party apps such as the Onkyo HF Player right now via the CCK adapter to a USB DAC.

 

To exclude those devices from Apple supported standard compatibility via firmware lockout, when they have no hardware limitation that would compromise the "user experience" (always Apple's excuse) wouldn't be well intentioned behavior by Apple in treating their customers fairly.

Sometimes older devices actually perform slower with new firmwares. This is due to hardware limitation. Enabling features could increase heat and reduce battery life. Slowing the device down could actually seriously compromise the "user experience".

post #4738 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by eron View Post
 

Sometimes older devices actually perform slower with new firmwares. This is due to hardware limitation. Enabling features could increase heat and reduce battery life. Slowing the device down could actually seriously compromise the "user experience".


This is true, however in the specific case of the iPad2 I was referring to, 24/192 already works in a stable fashion when using the CCK and Onkyo HF Player app, and 24/96 even works over iTunes Home Sharing with the iPad's stock Music app.

 

That does of course drain the battery more quickly than straight 16 bit playback does, no surprises there.

 

So it does not appear hardware limitations on something like an iPad2 would ruin the user experience, if they write the new firmware to accommodate it.

 

But they won't, because they want to sell more devices.

post #4739 of 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post
 


This is true, however in the specific case of the iPad2 I was referring to, 24/192 already works in a stable fashion when using the CCK and Onkyo HF Player app, and 24/96 even works over iTunes Home Sharing with the iPad's stock Music app.

 

That does of course drain the battery more quickly than straight 16 bit playback does, no surprises there.

 

So it does not appear hardware limitations on something like an iPad2 would ruin the user experience, if they write the new firmware to accommodate it.

 

But they won't, because they want to sell more devices.

New firmware is a give-and-take.  Some things may work better, some the same, and some may break.  I think that is the point of eron's post. 

 

I agree that the iPad 2 does hi-res in some fashion -- in this case, using the CCK.  I've seen and experienced it myself.  Local playback of hi-res over sharing is also some form of compatibility, but it is a different flavor of hi-res as I doubt the local DACs are hi-res. 

 

And like you, I'm not counting on Apple to update the iPad 2 or anything else to bring additional capability.  In fact, my iPad mini is on iOS 6 still -- works great, I like it better than iOS 7 for that form factor, and hey, its my device to do with what I want.  At least Apple has a "don't remind me again" option for many of its updating processes. 

post #4740 of 4968

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2014/05/_iphone6lightning.html

 

Old C10 on the left and new C48 on the right

 

EAExh.jpg 

 


 

AK10 through MFi connection without CCK at all, and that looked like 96KHz on both ends to me

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685528/astell-kern-ak10-portable-dac-and-amp/270#post_10341874

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