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The Centrance HiFi M8 thread - Page 100

post #1486 of 2068
2/24/13 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


But you guys are forgetting the fact that people already have heavy investment in the 3-pin XLR cables.

What do you tell all these folks exactly?

Even though I think the 4-pin XLR configuration has some inherit advantages, it really doesn't make sense from a market perspective unless someone can provide more substantial data that people are willing to abandon their expensive recabled 3-pin XLR headphones for 4-pin.

While the HIFI M8 has a broad appeal, it won't however be for everybody. With the 4 pin XLR ended cables I just bought (knowing that that what is offered as of now with the M8) I also ordered an adaptor, in case I wanted a or needed a different connection. I cannot speak for Centrance, however it does not OWE anyone. You can please some of the people.....etc.

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post #1487 of 2068
2/24/13 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzman View Post

Ah, "we" didn't make the RSA connector a choice, Ray did.   (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

fzman,

 

Yes, you're right -- we didn't make the RSA connector a choice, but we decided to follow it. wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fzman View Post

how exactly do you see them doing that- dropping every other connector option, or just making it one of many?   If the former, then how much business will they lose because people's headphones and iems do not have minis on them?  If the latter, what degree of financial risk is worthwhile, given the cost of developing and manufacturing yet another option?

In my opinion, we don't have to drop other existing options, just letting the mini 4-pin XLR become a new choice. Of course, due to my limited knowledge, I have no data to show whether there is any potential risk in finance or in rising cost of developing. Thus, I asked Michael a question -- If there is no technical problem, like analog PCB integration, to add the mini 4-pin XLR as a new choice, I think some people will really want to know "why not." -- in my previous post. I respect Michael's decision, and I also think people who are involved in this thread have rights to know "how a decision is made?" cool.gif Therefore, I wish Michael can give us his viewpoints about this issue.
 
As a transportable rig user, I just feel that there should be a more "CONVENTIONAL and DECENT"  interface for a portable balanced amp.
RSA and ALO chose Auto-IRIS (traditional used in a camera system).
iBasso chose HIROSE HR10A-7R-6 (traditional used in a video system).
Chaos can be seen in the industry of audio portable balanced amp. confused_face.gif I believe the mini 4-pin XLR should a better choice than the previous ones, so I support the idea that adding the mini 4-pin XLR as a choice, due to its inherent benefits. wink_face.gif
 
 
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post #1488 of 2068
2/24/13 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

While the HIFI M8 has a broad appeal, it won't however be for everybody. With the 4 pin XLR ended cables I just bought (knowing that that what is offered as of now with the M8) I also ordered an adaptor, in case I wanted a or needed a different connection. I cannot speak for Centrance, however it does not OWE anyone. You can please some of the people.....etc.

 

Saraguie,

 

No one has said Centrance owes us this configuration. In fact, if you recall, I offered to pay an extra $50 just to demonstrate how much I want this particular configuration. What we're trying to do is show why this is more compelling and forward-looking than the other options.

 

I wouldn't suggest that Michael risk delaying the launch of the M8 in order to focus on the mini 4-pin XLR configuration. I'd just like to know whether it's got realistic potential as a day two enhancement.

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post #1489 of 2068
2/24/13 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianTW View Post

The purpose of this thread is to get everyone involved in the M8's development.

 

Adrian

And they were, when the Hifi-M8 was in development. Sorry, but that time has passed and it is now in the last production stage.

Maybe for Hifi-m8-2?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianTW View Post

Michael,

 

The purpose of this thread is to get everyone involved in the M8's development.

If there is no technical problem, like analog PCB integration, to add the mini 4-pin XLR as a new choice, I think some people will really want to know "why not."

I think the mini 4-pin XLR will be a way to the future for portable balanced amps.

Why not let's make it a standard interface first, just like a pioneer?

 

Cheers!

 

Adrian

The truth is that the community did get involved in the development of the Hifi-M8, and Michael and Centrance listened and tried their best to implement our requests.

And they have done it well, with enthusiasm and respect.

The Hifi-M8 is now well into its last production phase, the time for suggestions of new choices has passed. 

 

But I am sure Centrance are looking to improve in the future. So we can always help with the Hifi-m8 mark 2.

Longer battery life, smaller model and even a mini XLR.

 

regards.


Edited by ExpatinJapan - 2/24/13 at 8:47pm
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post #1490 of 2068
2/24/13 at 5:40pm

There was a poll early on, but the mini-xlr was not presented as an option which I found puzzling. 

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post #1491 of 2068
2/24/13 at 6:57pm

I haven't been around here for awhile, so please humor me...

Am I right to say that the recent debate is over the Mini XLR plugs and not the regular 4-pin XLR? Are they two different plugs or did I get confused?

I haven't had any headphones with XLRs before (planning on having one soon) so I'm getting a little confused..

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post #1492 of 2068
2/24/13 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theThirty3rd View Post

I haven't been around here for awhile, so please humor me...

Am I right to say that the recent debate is over the Mini XLR plugs and not the regular 4-pin XLR? Are they two different plugs or did I get confused?

I haven't had any headphones with XLRs before (planning on having one soon) so I'm getting a little confused..

 Hi,

 

I was wondering the same thing.  I searched for some specifications but a picture is worth a whole bunch of words.  Even though it looks like 3 pins in the picture this should serve the purpose.

 

Comprehensive XLR Male to Mini XLR Female Cable (10ft)

 

The mini looks really neat but, for me, one the things I like about going with full size 4 pin XLR is bulk, strength, and pin contact size.  To me the mini looks like an advantage over 3.5 mm jacks but the little pins worry me.  Multiple plugging and unplugging, knowing what a klutz I am, makes me fear breaking one of the delicate pins on the mini.  The heft of a pro audio connector (full size XLR), with its proven track record in the pro application market, is part of the attraction.  Since my first walkman in 1981 (or so) I have never liked the 3.5 mm jack. 

 

Just my opinion.

  

Peter

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post #1493 of 2068
2/25/13 at 8:27am

One advantage of the mini 4-pin XLR connector is that there would be additional room on the faceplate for intermediate outputs such as a TRS analog line out and a micro-BNC SPDIF digital out.  But not before the HiFi-M8 v.2 or even v.3. at any rate. 

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post #1494 of 2068
2/25/13 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspivak View Post

 Hi,

 

I was wondering the same thing.  I searched for some specifications but a picture is worth a whole bunch of words.  Even though it looks like 3 pins in the picture this should serve the purpose.

 

Comprehensive XLR Male to Mini XLR Female Cable (10ft)

 

The mini looks really neat but, for me, one the things I like about going with full size 4 pin XLR is bulk, strength, and pin contact size.  To me the mini looks like an advantage over 3.5 mm jacks but the little pins worry me.  Multiple plugging and unplugging, knowing what a klutz I am, makes me fear breaking one of the delicate pins on the mini.  The heft of a pro audio connector (full size XLR), with its proven track record in the pro application market, is part of the attraction.  Since my first walkman in 1981 (or so) I have never liked the 3.5 mm jack. 

 

Just my opinion.

  

Peter

Because the shells interlock before/as the pins and sockets connect, there shouldn't be much worry about damaging the pins.  While not as robust as a full-size, the mini retains many of the attributes that make the full-size ideal for pro use.  Again, if one connector is going to rule them all, then compromises will have to be made.  Still stand by the mini as the connector that gives up the least for what it brings to the table.  I would also hope that if it did start to become a standard that variations would be made as well (right angled, more aesthetically pleasing, different strain reliefs, etc.)

 

That said, I fully support other peoples' preferences.  It's what makes us individuals and not entirely boring.

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post #1495 of 2068
2/25/13 at 9:27am

I can't remember by who, but there was a strong argument for lemo many pages back as well. 

 

I'd lean towards the mini xlr because it's easier to find commercially (though they seem to be almost non-existent in Canada). 

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post #1496 of 2068
2/25/13 at 9:58am


Quote:

Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

And they were, when the Hifi-M8 was in development. Sorry, but that time has passed and it is now in the last production stage.

Maybe for Hifi-m8-2?

ExpatinJapan,
 
Yes, you're right -- we have missed the best timing, and M8 is in the last production stage. wink.gif I am regretful for not seeing the benefits and the potential from the mini 4-pin XLR configuration, because a normal-sized 4-pin XLR panel can satisfy all my current setting.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

The truth is that the community did get involved in the development of the Hifi-M8, and Michael and Centrance listened and tried their best to implement our requests.

And they have done it well, with enthusiasm and respect.

 
However, I think that we also have a responsibility to notice Michael what we might missed previously. Most of us are experienced headphone users, so we might just help Michael develop a new product to meet our needs and might overlook the needs from future headphone users -- a solid/flexible/light cable connector like the mini 4-pin XLR. Nevertheless, due to M8's modular design methodology, it's still possible to make an adjustment before the deadline. bigsmile_face.gif
 
BTW, I'm not ordering Michael to do whatever I want. I am just proposing an idea that could be good for M8. If Michael says "NO", I will respect his decision sincerely. You make me feel that I'm an evil product manager who is always pushing a respectful system architect, Michael, to add new features til the release of a product. evil_smiley.gif
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pspivak View Post

The mini looks really neat but, for me, one the things I like about going with full size 4 pin XLR is bulk, strength, and pin contact size.  To me the mini looks like an advantage over 3.5 mm jacks but the little pins worry me.  Multiple plugging and unplugging, knowing what a klutz I am, makes me fear breaking one of the delicate pins on the mini.  The heft of a pro audio connector (full size XLR), with its proven track record in the pro application market, is part of the attraction.  Since my first walkman in 1981 (or so) I have never liked the 3.5 mm jack. 

 

Just my opinion.

  

Peter

Peter,
Don't worry about the robustness of a mini XLR connector. The mini 3-pin (not 4-pin) XLR has been used by many of AKG's headphones for years. biggrin.gif
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post #1497 of 2068
2/25/13 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianTW View Post

FraGGleR,

 

The mini 4-pin XLR is rarely found on portable amps either, and I don't think you can call it a "STANDARD" interface.

However, if we can make the RSA connector a choice, why not the mini 4-pin XLR? 

 

 

Michael,

 

The purpose of this thread is to get everyone involved in the M8's development.

If there is no technical problem, like analog PCB integration, to add the mini 4-pin XLR as a new choice, I think some people will really want to know "why not."

I think the mini 4-pin XLR will be a way to the future for portable balanced amps.

Why not let's make it a standard interface first, just like a pioneer?

 

Cheers!

 

Adrian

Hey, sorry for long silence. We've cut the aluminum already, so at this point it's going to have to be the four output choices that we spoke about. Some time in the future, when this ordeal is behind us, we will be cutting more aluminum for something else, and then the discussion may be re-opened.

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post #1498 of 2068
2/25/13 at 2:52pm

.

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post #1499 of 2068
2/25/13 at 3:10pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chexxchexx View Post
 

[snip]

 

Back to my point about manufacturers being tone-deaf to their customers' desires, if we as customers don't "organize" to make our collective desires known we can hardly accuse them of being tone-deaf. What's needed is a concise comparison table to summarize the pros and cons of the various connectors available today. Attached to that should be a carefully constructed survey which would make it clear:

  1. how much do they care about balanced vs. single-ended
  2. how much more likely they'd be to buy new gear if it didn't carry an associated re-cabling price tag
  3. the value they assign to portability
  4. the likelihood of them owning both a portable and desktop rig given the ever narrowing gap between the two
  5. would they consider a single transportable rig in lieu of portable and desktop
  6. whether they'd willingly accept the cost associated with convergence
  7. how resentful they are of the lack of coordination within the manufacturer community and the associated inefficiencies being passed-on to the consumer
  8. their preferred connector for balanced
  9. their preferred connector for single-ended
  10. whether they currently own any balanced gear
  11. the type of balanced connectors on their current gear
  12. the types of headphones they currently own or realistically intend to own in the future
  13. how much they plan to spend on equipment in the next year
  14. how much they've spent on the gear currently in their possession
  15. how often they roll gear
  16. how much they use the secondary market when rolling gear

 

I'm sure there are plenty of other useful questions to be asked. It would be interesting to do something like this on an annual basis because it would make it easy to spot trends and, hopefully, show manufacturers it's in everyones' best interests for the current landscape to be simplified.

Just a quick bit of feedback: we see good support for the 4-pin XLR version. We also see that most people (still) have unbalanced headphones, which would lead one to believe that balanced headphones are in the minority. While this community is unique, it is rather small, by market standards.

 

All the more reason for us to extend our love and gratitude to you :)


Edited by mgoodman - 2/25/13 at 3:16pm
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post #1500 of 2068
2/25/13 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chexxchexx View Post

 

Saraguie,

 

No one has said Centrance owes us this configuration. In fact, if you recall, I offered to pay an extra $50 just to demonstrate how much I want this particular configuration. What we're trying to do is show why this is more compelling and forward-looking than the other options.

 

I wouldn't suggest that Michael risk delaying the launch of the M8 in order to focus on the mini 4-pin XLR configuration. I'd just like to know whether it's got realistic potential as a day two enhancement.

Hey Chexx.......yea I can see I was a little strong there and was re-acting to:

 

"But you guys are forgetting the fact that people already have heavy investment in the 3-pin XLR cables.


What do you tell all these folks exactly?"

 

When I first read it I got defensive, thinking it is a shot (IMO tis) fired at Michael and Centrance.  M and Co have no problem expressing their positions and don't need moi to speak on their behalf, thank you very much :)

So, hey I'm sorry for that and apologize. It's an open thread and as long as posts conform to H.F. rules anyone and everyone can say what they wish.

 

It's All Good ~ let's listen to the music!


Edited by Saraguie - 2/25/13 at 4:48pm
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