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The Centrance HiFi M8 thread - Page 91

post #1351 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

 

 

 I like XLR's better than TRS plugs, 

Balanced/unbalanced is a different consideratino than xlr/trs.  A 4-pin xlr would solve the issues as it would work for either single-ended or "balanced" connection re: connecting headphones to "amps".  XLRs are safer as well, as there is no 'inappropriate touching' upon connection or disconnection while the amp is powered up.  There also may be better contact area and or contact pressure, but i have not done the math...

post #1352 of 5055

What is the latest on battery life?

post #1353 of 5055

Thanks for posting your listening notes, guys.  I can't wait for them to be finalized and shipped.  I'm itching to make new USB adapters, but want to wait until I receive a unit.  Going to be stacking one of these on top for my office/transportable rigs.

 

 

 

Has a silicone grip on the bottom and should sit just right on top.

post #1354 of 5055

The Hifi-M8 definitely looks to be a totally kick-ass product.  

 

Any chance a smaller, single-ended only version will be released?  I imagine that would be fairly popular, at least with the iphone crowd.  On the go, I would not use balanced terminated cans, so for me at least, I would opt for an iphone compatible amp/dac that maybe even has more similar dimensions for nice pairing.  While the price of the Hifi-M8 seems fair, it is kind of overkill for someone using say Vmoda m100's pr HE-400s (sorry to be egocentric and reference my headphones, but hopefully the point is not lost, that for people with cans in the sub-$500 range who have an iphone, a smaller, single-ended only version might be quite popular).

 

Thanks for letting me weigh in.

post #1355 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by AML1 View Post

Any chance a smaller, single-ended only version will be released?

All M8s can be used with all single-ended earphones/headphones, as long as you have a 3.5mm or 1/4" plug.

post #1356 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by eron View Post

All M8s can be used with all single-ended earphones/headphones, as long as you have a 3.5mm or 1/4" plug.

Combo jacks are 1/4" and XLR. I really think that will be the most popular choice.
post #1357 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by eron View Post

All M8s can be used with all single-ended earphones/headphones, as long as you have a 3.5mm or 1/4" plug.
I understand that however and perhaps I did this poorly in my initial post, I was expressing interest in a less expensive single ended only version. I'm likely not the only person interested in an amp/DAC solution for iPhone 5 but uninterested in paying to convert existing headphones into balanced ended or buying new headphones in order to get the most out of this particular version. Unless I'm wrong in my assumption that this particular amp rewards people who use balanced terminated headphones more than single ended?
post #1358 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

There are a lot of people who say balanced is better and a lot of people who say it doesn't matter.  Most commonly claimed pros are better control of each driver since they are independent, some amps double the power out in balanced (hard to drive cans can get the power they need), less crosstalk (no one seems to be able to confirm that it is audible), over longer runs (far longer than any normal headphone cable) there is more noise rejection, better balanced sound if taking a single entry (one sided) headphone and making it balanced (equal lengths of wire to each driver).  Audibly, bass response is supposed to be better controlled and soundstage is often said to improve.  This mixes in balanced with regard to cables, headphones, and amps.  More experienced or technical people I am sure will chime in, but I hope not too many do as it can completely derail threads when it comes to sound science.

 

I went balanced a while ago because it sounded like a fun thing to do.  I like XLR's better than TRS plugs, but I have no idea if my headphones sound better since I can't easily or quickly switch between unbalanced and balanced.  But in general, symmetry makes me happy, and I enjoy my music more when I am happy.  This whole hobby is an individual journey to find the right setup for YOU.  Other peoples' experiences might help narrow down choices, but nothing can beat personal experimentation.

 

Ok brain, I'm gonna feed you this placebo. In return, I expect an endorphine and dopamine spike starting... now! 

 

In pro audio gear, balanced reduces interference/noise/emi/rfi pickup over long transmission lengths and allows for higher overall power effective voltage swing. In headfi the theory still applies, though in practice neither is really much of a concern. 

 

Actively driving both your + and - channels has the benefit of isolating your output from your ground reference plane. While in theory ground is ground, any current running through it will cause little ripples, which in turn affect your power lines and your signal lines. So a balanced system keeps the ground relatively cleaner. Crosstalk should go down as well, since the ground point was where the two would interact. On the flipside, a true ground is usually lower impedance and may (or may not) be able to sink current faster. Magically sticking an amp circuit on both the + and - side does not mean you automatically get twice as much power; you have to design for it. They're in series after all, not parallel. Balanced also has twice as many components, and you have to perfectly match the + and - side, which is easy in theory but in practice less so.

 

Whether or not any of that's audible at the end of the day... *shrug*

 

I still like Jan Meier's concept of active balanced ground. Keeps all your wiring the same, but kinda bootstraps much of the balanced concepts into a three wire system. I've built my own simple version of it which I thought sounded quite good. 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

 

 

 

Is anyone else getting the vibe of... "Come to the dark side. We have cookies! the M8!"


Edited by Armaegis - 2/10/13 at 4:34pm
post #1359 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrobe View Post

Alright. I've committed to this unit.

i-device/USB in and 4 pin XLR- 1/4 out. Pretty darn excited, to be sure. An portable audio Swiss army knife!

 

My biggest concern is the performance with sensitive CIEM's...but I know Michael has mentioned that will be all good, so I have faith!

I'm very interested in the options for output config and what they mean in the real world, from a performance (immediate and future) and flexibility point of view (future-proofing the device).

 

If someone could enlighten me, recommend scenarios relevant to each I'd be grateful.

post #1360 of 5055

Hmm.

 

 

 

post #1361 of 5055
Quote:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Originally Posted by DannyBai View Post
 

Hmm.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wow!

post #1362 of 5055

Actually the stubble and eyebrows make it all the more intense... 

 

If only the M8 were more in focus, I think that's be a pretty good picture for an ad.

post #1363 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBai View Post

Hmm.

 

 

 

 

Ahhh! Too funny.

post #1364 of 5055

This is a truly excellent explanation Armaegis.  

 

I've heard it all before, but you've said it better than I recall reading in the past.  

 

Thanks!

 

Mike

 

(Listening to This Is The Day, from The The's Soul Mining)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

 

Ok brain, I'm gonna feed you this placebo. In return, I expect an endorphine and dopamine spike starting... now! 

 

In pro audio gear, balanced reduces interference/noise/emi/rfi pickup over long transmission lengths and allows for higher overall power delivery. In headfi the theory still applies, though in practice neither is really much of a concern. 

 

Actively driving both your + and - channels has the benefit of isolating your output from your ground reference plane. While in theory ground is ground, any current running through it will cause little ripples, which in turn affect your power lines and your signal lines. So a balanced system keeps the ground relatively cleaner. Crosstalk should go down as well, since the ground point was where the two would interact. On the flipside, a true ground is usually lower impedance and may (or may not) be able to sink current faster. Magically sticking an amp circuit on both the + and - side does not mean you automatically get twice as much power; you have to design for it. They're in series after all, not parallel. Balanced also has twice as many components, and you have to perfectly match the + and - side, which is easy in theory but in practice less so.

 

Whether or not any of that's audible at the end of the day... *shrug*

 

I still like Jan Meier's concept of active balanced ground. Keeps all your wiring the same, but kinda bootstraps much of the balanced concepts into a three wire system. I've built my own simple version of it which I thought sounded quite good. 

 

[snip]


Edited by zilch0md - 2/10/13 at 4:13pm
post #1365 of 5055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post


Combo jacks are 1/4" and XLR. I really think that will be the most popular choice.
I think CEntrance was exploring an additional combo 3.5mm jack with optical output like the one on Macbook Pros, that will be on all M8s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AML1 View Post


I understand that however and perhaps I did this poorly in my initial post, I was expressing interest in a less expensive single ended only version. I'm likely not the only person interested in an amp/DAC solution for iPhone 5 but uninterested in paying to convert existing headphones into balanced ended or buying new headphones in order to get the most out of this particular version. Unless I'm wrong in my assumption that this particular amp rewards people who use balanced terminated headphones more than single ended?

You could use the additional combo port to share music with someone! 

If you buy a supercar, but don't drive it to its limit, it doesn't mean that you aren't enjoying the car as much. Though buying a supercar would mean that you can drive faster (on a track), as you gain experience and have the means and time to. It's similar with the M8. If single ended suits you, stay that way. If you want to try balanced HPs, you can without changing the DAC/amp.

 

A single ended version could be cheaper, but unless you are looking at the same footprint, it would probably be costly for the company unless there's a huge market. It would also perhaps be too similar to competitors out there.


Edited by eron - 2/11/13 at 4:20am
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