The Centrance HiFi M8 thread - Page 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnakChan 

By the way, following on Fujiya's FB posts, I'm not certain if I read it carefully but it seems the HiFi M8 will make an appearance on this weekend's Fujiya Portable Show via their local Japanese distributor Mixwave. I wonder if Michael will make an appearance himself.

ExpatInJapan, wanna confirm if this is the case??

I read from HiFi-M8 blog that Michel will be in Japan this weekend, so he should be at the show.

Alright. I've committed to this unit.

i-device/USB in and 4 pin XLR- 1/4 out. Pretty darn excited, to be sure. An portable audio Swiss army knife!

My biggest concern is the performance with sensitive CIEM's...but I know Michael has mentioned that will be all good, so I have faith!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrobe 

Alright. I've committed to this unit.

i-device/USB in and 4 pin XLR- 1/4 out. Pretty darn excited, to be sure. An portable audio Swiss army knife!

 

My biggest concern is the performance with sensitive CIEM's...but I know Michael has mentioned that will be all good, so I have faith!

What is the strongest argument for balanced output? I.e. why do we need it? I'm asking because I have close to no knowledge about balanced output. Thanks!

I'd appreciate replies and comments from anybody (not just "thegrobe")!

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik 

What is the strongest argument for balanced output? I.e. why do we need it? I'm asking because I have close to no knowledge about balanced output. Thanks!

 

I'd appreciate replies and comments from anybody (not just "thegrobe")!

 

Thanks!

I am certainly not an expert..so take my answer here with a grain of salt. The "balanced" amp and cable is a new concept to me. I just started looking into it since I pre-ordered the M8 and knew I would be jumping into a balanced setup. 

Here is how I understand it -

(PLEASE someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to share my understanding):

Unbalanced (3 cable) headphones has a plus signal for left, right, then a common ground. There can be some crosstalk or distortion caused by this common ground

....The balanced cable has 2 positive signals, one for each left and right headphone. Then 2 individual, separate negative for each left and right headphone. This accounts for 4 wires. The dual 3 pin XLR has two more wires (totaling 6) that can be used for a shield which goes to chassis ground. BUT....I read somewhere in the development blog or this thread that Michael mentioned the 4 pin XLR actually has a 5th terminal that can be used for a shield. So either the 4 pin XLR or dual 3 pin XLR will give you the balanced setup, plus shield, provided the cable is constructed properly. The advantage is no shared ground, so no chance of crosstalk, distortion, etc

Then the M8 is fully balanced, so there you go. The left and right audio signals are fully isolated. 

As far as the listening or sound differences between balanced and unbalanced, someone else will have to answer because I have no experience. lol

Here is a website that has a little info as well as helpful diagrams to illustrate the difference between unbalanced and balanced:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/balancedheadphones/one.html

Cheers

Raised, for maintaining the integrity of the band thickness.

The AKM4396 DAC chip was used in the DACmini.  I'm kinda hoping for the OPA 627BP op amp, ESD be damned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik 

What is the strongest argument for balanced output? I.e. why do we need it? I'm asking because I have close to no knowledge about balanced output. Thanks!

 

I'd appreciate replies and comments from anybody (not just "thegrobe")!

 

Thanks!

All I know is that it doubles the power output in my "balanced" amp. The only reason I needed it, is when I had the LCD 2. The amp did poorly when I used the LCD 2 with standard 1/4" plug, and I had to raise the volume up to 2-3 o' clock on the dial. When I used it with a balanced cable, volume was at 9-10 o'clock, after that the volume would be to loud.

Thank you head-fi:ers for your input on balanced output. I would be very interested to hear Mr. Goodman tell us about the major advantage(s) of balanced output for us end consumers of the M8. Thank you!

I'm a novice with balanced headphones, but I do own a pair. I'm explain the practical implications in regards to the M8, and will leave the technical explanations to the experts.

Balanced headphones:

• Heavier and bigger footprint due to double the amount of cables. Thus arguably less portable.
• Larger plug
• Lower setting at the volume pot due to double the 'power' as compared to a single-ended HP.
• Arguably better SQ due to balanced setup and often better cables.

For Team CEntrance:

1. What's the impact on battery life with respect to using balanced and unbalanced HPs? I assumed that listening at lower volumes meant a longer battery life. However, are you always putting out power to both ports, or only when a balanced HP is used? Else when a single-ended HP is used instead of a balanced one, battery life could be extended?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eron 

I'm a novice with balanced headphones, but I do own a pair. I'm explain the practical implications in regards to the M8, and will leave the technical explanations to the experts.

Balanced headphones:

• Heavier and bigger footprint due to double the amount of cables. Thus arguably less portable.
• Larger plug
• Lower setting at the volume pot due to double the 'power' as compared to a single-ended HP.
• Arguably better SQ due to balanced setup and often better cables.

 

For Team CEntrance:

1. What's the impact on battery life with respect to using balanced and unbalanced HPs? I assumed that listening at lower volumes meant a longer battery life. However, are you always putting out power to both ports, or only when a balanced HP is used? Else when a single-ended HP is used instead of a balanced one, battery life could be extended?

The audiophile "appropriation" of the term balanced is a bit misleading.It is not the same as a balanced XLR used for professional audio applications (3pin: Negative/Positive/Ground). It is simply a distinct negative for the Left/Right channel instead of a shared negative.  There is likely no more power going to a balanced headphone jack than a regular jack. What you have is two MONO jacks instead of one STEREO jack, and each mono line ends up with its own negative instead of a shared negative cable, and each mono jack likely receives half the power of a combined stereo plug. That is why there are only 4pins in total instead of 6. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarySaville 

The audiophile "appropriation" of the term balanced is a bit misleading.It is not the same as a balanced XLR used for professional audio applications (3pin: Negative/Positive/Ground). It is simply a distinct negative for the Left/Right channel instead of a shared negative.  There is likely no more power going to a balanced headphone jack than a regular jack. What you have is two MONO jacks instead of one STEREO jack, and each mono line ends up with its own negative instead of a shared negative cable, and each mono jack likely receives half the power of a combined stereo plug. That is why there are only 4pins in total instead of 6. 

I don't believe you have the connection between pins and power correct.  Power-wise, it depends on the the amp.  A balanced B22 delivers twice the power in balanced mode as it does in unbalanced, as it literally just uses half of the amp boards for unbalanced.  Several other balanced amps are the same.  I don't remember if Michael has indicated power differences for unbalanced and balanced.  

What is confusing here is conflating a 4-wire connection for stereo headphones with 'balanced' as in dual-differential circuitry.   Stereo headphones require 2 wires for each channel/driver.  Standard 6.3mm and 3.5mm plugs and jacks are 3 conductors, so headphone cables connect the - wires from both channels together.  Some even use 3 wires for most of the cable's length, and y-off to the 2 wires per channel.

There may be some sonic advantage to using 4 wires thru the whole length of the headphone cable, but it is unclear how much of a benefit. 

Dual differential amplification uses two identical circuits, one for minus, the other for positive.  Minus is not tied to ground.  So for dual differential amplification you need to have 4 wires, 2 for each channel.  Dual differential has some benefits, again, subject to some debate.

'Balanced' is often used to refer to either of these different things- hence the confusion. The more technical among us can weigh in with additional clarifications or corrections.

I have a question..I have read through almost all of this thread and most of the blog but haven't found an answer yet..

Does this unit have an automatic power-off function? I am a little "late to the party" and wish I would have brought this up much earlier in the development stages. Anyhow, it would be a nice feature to have. If there were no signal coming on for, say, 10 minutes the unit would power itself off. Especially with the all the talk of trying to stretch the maximum amount of battery life out of the design, it would stand to reason that it would save some battery life if it wasn't on while not being used! LOL. Maybe a firmware revision or something could make this happen.

And if not, that's okay too. I'm pretty good about turning stuff off. Except when I fall asleep. 

Speaking of balanced, I clearly am not.  I got way to excited to see a small package from CEntrance arrive today.  It was just a T-shirt.  I felt silly for thinking that a miracle had happened even if it was only for a split second  

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraGGleR 

Speaking of balanced, I clearly am not.  I got way to excited to see a small package from CEntrance arrive today.  It was just a T-shirt.  I felt silly for thinking that a miracle had happened even if it was only for a split second  

Lucky you!!!  I have been waiting for the t-shirt!  Just a T-shirt huh?