[REVIEW] Heir Audio 4.Ai: Could We Have Perfection? - Page 10

Hey Swimsonny do you still prefer the stock tips that come on the 4.Ai's? I find myself loving the etymotic looking ones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimsonny 

I do actually, I have tried a few different stock tips of IEMs in tip drawer but nothing to write up about, their has been a few slight difference but mainly in the bass region and the stock tips is what I am looking for so I have stuck with them!
What tips have you been using, what IEMs did they come with or are they the dual flanges which came with them, I did not get all the stock tips!
Mainly been in awe of how good they are with the Tera Player!

Well they were the dual flanges which came with them, I prefer them because I can a perfect seal and I never seem to have to re-adjust them.

I'm not familiar with Tera Player but I'll go ahead and google that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kskwerl 

Well they were the dual flanges which came with them, I prefer them because I can a perfect seal and I never seem to have to re-adjust them.

 

I'm not familiar with Tera Player but I'll go ahead and google that.

     I use the bi-flange as well, they allow the IEM to sit more deeply into the bowl of my ear, but yet do not fit as deep and snug into my ear canals.  They form a seal, and are comfortable...   so I stay with them.

i got some today and really have to say, that they are by far the most refined universals i heard so far. man these are so detailes, but still fun. smooth and pin point accurat. and i am saying this as a basshead: these can rumble as hell with the right music. the only iem that i really would like to compare them to is the ue900. w4, se535, aurisonics ex1000 thay can simply not compete with the 4ai.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimsonny 

Thanks man, i have seen you on all the Ai threads, tempting you? ;)

ah yes, tempting me very much. just bought an audiolab transport so im not sure if ill be getting it too soon.

the w4r is $400 here in korea so the heirs are looking to be of great value :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimsonny 

they are great value indeed, i think it may be worth you jumping on them ;)

im sure they are. need to recoup first :D

Hi Sonny. Thanks for the heads up. I managed to spend some time reading your review and I hope you don't mind if I ask a few specific questions about it.

I would like to understand a bit more when you said this in your review when comparing Heir 4Ai to EX1000 "Soundstage is huge and three dimensional on the Sony but the presentation and imaging of the Heir just makes that all pointless"

I have a bit of trouble understanding the difference between EX1000's 3-Dimensionality and Heir 4Ai's presentation and imaging. To me, all these 3 words sound almost the same.

But before that, I think it's fair I tried to describe how I understand these words to mean - so that you can see where I am coming from - so we can try to meet a certain understanding in the middle of subjective description in audio language : ) But be warned that I am not an audiophile, so my understand may be wrong or skewed!

I think I do understand what soundstage means - in terms of width (how wide or expansive the sound is), but in terms of depth I understood it as having a better imaging and sense of 3D from the listener's front view (how far ahead the sound is coming from). The usual descriptions I hear are - imagining one being seat a few rows back as compared to being right there at the stage. However, I have never really experienced a real 3D sound that can come from the front and also back (its usually from the front and never both)

I think presentation means how vivid the sound quality is, how real it is to the listener - to the extend one can imagine and point where is it coming from (somehow related to soundstage depth and imaging?) but I think I can see how its possible to have good soundstage depth but not necessary having good presence since they may contradict each other - because I learned that a presentation that is forward will add the vividness of the sound, but less forward might take away some. If i get any of them correct?

I really do have to apologies if my descriptions are a bit confusing as I am trying to understand them myself. I did have a look at the Glossary of sound descriptions here in headfi, but I would really like to pick on your insight since this is your review and because I am really intrigue by EX1000 and it seems you rate Heir 4Ai very highly, but I am unable to pick out the differences between these 2 IEMs when in comes to these 3 words.

Thanks in advance!

Soundstage refers to recreating the intended recording space.

Originally when an artist or band recorded a song or album they a single microphone was used with the musicians placed around it and away from it. When played back on a decent stereo setup you are able to perceive the width and depth of the space and the relationship of the musicians within the space and to each other. A good modern example of this is Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Sessions", it was recorded at Trinity Church in downtown Toronto. The engineer used a single stereo microphone straight to DAT. The musicians were then placed around and away from the mike to define their relationship to each other and the natural reverb of the church defines the space.

With modern studio recording techniques soundstage is harder to get a handle on because in most cases the instruments and vocals are close miked or recorded direct with reverb effects added after the fact to recreate a sense of space. In many cases the effects used won't match from one instrument to the other which makes it harder to perceive a coherent space for the instruments to live in.

Typically the best way to test soundstage abilities of an audio setup is with a well done live recording. An audiophile standard is "Jazz At The Pawnshop" which was recorded at a jazz club in Sweden. With this recording you not only get a very good sense of how the musicians are placed on the stage but because of all the ambient and crowd noise that is captured you get a real sense of being there in the audience and the size and atmosphere of the venue itself.

Imaging refers to how well defined those instruments are within the space. For instance, you might be able to get a good sense of the size and scale of a venue with one system but the musicians are a little fuzzy with less distinction of where they're placed on the stage. Another example, with the 4.Ai's and the Audioquest Dragonfly I find the width and depth of the soundstage a bit smaller than other headphones I had on hand at the time I did my own review but the positioning and scale of the musicians themselves were far better defined.

You can also have a setup that sounds more forward or set back. This is where you get that perception of where you're seated in the venue. I think this tends to have a lot to do with the balance of the midrange. The 4.Ai's to me a more forward, I feel more like I'm in the first row whereas the Westone 4's felt like I was a little further back.

Personally, I found soundstage depth and imaging to be one of the shortcoming of the 4A.i. They sound wide and open due to their strong treble presence but instruments seem to occupy the same 2D space. The PFE232 sounds more closed in and dark but imaging is superb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenpunk 

Personally, I found soundstage depth and imaging to be one of the shortcoming of the 4A.i. They sound wide and open due to their strong treble presence but instruments seem to occupy the same 2D space. The PFE232 sounds more closed in and dark but imaging is superb.

I haven't heard the PFE232's to compare but I'd agree, at least with the Dragonfly and iPhone 4S at least, the soundstage is rather forward which I don't mind but it is more 2D than I'd like. That said, what saves it for me at least, is the imaging is pinpoint accurate with each musician having their own defined space.

It's funny though, I'm more of a bass head than treble head, in fact I'm fairly sensitive to overdone treble so I generally lean towards headphones with a rolloff in the treble region, but I don't the 4.Ai to have an overly strong treble like some have stated. It's more present than the Westone 4's I was using but the 4.Ai's seem well balanced with the rest of the spectrum for me. Of course that may have more than a bit to do with tip choice as well, I did try the stock red tips briefly and found those to be a bit too harsh, Comply's get it just right for my preference.