can the 4.ai produce decent sub bass rumble like tf10?
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Heir Audio 4.Ai - Appreciation/Impression/Review Thread - Page 57
post #841 of 230810/12/12 at 12:18pmHead-Fi's Best Sellers
post #842 of 230810/12/12 at 12:19pm- Inks
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The 3AI can, the 4AI, kind of.
post #843 of 230810/12/12 at 12:20pm- OK-Guy
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Quote:not selling honest... I'm letting them go on 'tour' for two weeks.
they will be at Home-Media next week and at Custom-Cables the week after
http://www.homemedialimited.co.uk/
http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/
things aren't finalized yet so I can't say the exact days that Head-Fi'ers living in London or the South-East (England) can get to demo them.... I will put full details and dates in both the Heir threads early next week when I know... yes it was a heart rendering and painful decision to make, these are 'my precious'.
before I go any further, I would like to iterate that I am doing this off my own back, I have paid fully for both my IEM's (& customs etc)... I am so impressed with what I am hearing that I thought I'd share it with others.
Edited by OK-Guy - 10/12/12 at 12:24pm- Swimsonny
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No, it does not have rumble that the TF10 has.post #845 of 230810/13/12 at 5:05pm- OK-Guy
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after a longggg telephone conversation last night with a fellow Head-Fi'er I had to confess to putting some tunes on my Z1070 in mp3 format (was down to me last 8gb, so needs must & all that)... abridging our conversation to a type-bite, he asked if I had A-B'd an album, now obviously I'm not 'that' stupid to upload the same album twice, until today that is... I picked on one of my go-to albums Moonfood - Moodswings, it's one of those albums I'm extremely familiar with having owned it since it was released early in the '90's it has some great musicians/singers guesting on the album noticeably Jeff Beck & Chrissie Hynde... the album is I suppose in the chill-out genre, it constantly changes music direction not only by track but within track, a underrated masterpiece that should be on everyones list for a listen.
well going from mp3-320k to Atrac-lossless 356k there is a definite upgrade in sound, not only that but it appears that using Atrac I get 'gap-less' playback which is a boon on this album as it seamlessly flows from one track to another (never realised the WM-Z did gap-less).... the special bit for me was the music delivery I was hearing from the 4.Ai's, this album thrives on 'bass', delivery through my home-system the album sounds pretty awesome at high levels (even my neighbours get enthused happily(?) banging on the walls in almost perfect timing), I can happily say that with the WM-Z the 4.Ai's bass is deep, no make that perfectly deep (unequalized), the detail of these things surprises almost with every album I put on, I've almost given up listening out for little nuances within tracks preferring to blissfully enjoy the music instead.
funny thing I asked my fellow Head-Fi'er where do I go from here... his reply was immediate 'customs' now he loves his JH-16 Pro's but I've head a rumour that Heir do a pretty good range too, there's a thought huh.
Edited by OK-Guy - 10/13/12 at 7:40pmpost #846 of 230810/14/12 at 10:44am- Swimsonny
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Quote:Is that the UE mic cable, did not know itd fit but looks quite nice!
post #848 of 230810/14/12 at 11:19amQuote:No.. that is a broken shure mic cable that I cannibalized. Had to fix the broken 3.5mm plug and replace the shure connectors with the pin connectors.
Edited by tommyc - 10/14/12 at 11:28am- Swimsonny
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Nice effort!post #850 of 230810/14/12 at 12:39pm- FullCircle
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Tommyc
That cable gives a very nice VIP look with those 4.Ais, a natural fit....
That said, I'd file down the pins just a touch such that they give a more flush fit.
Wizard
post #851 of 230810/14/12 at 7:11pm- elnero
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Shortly after I received my 4.Ai's I started writing bits and pieces for what was supposed to be a brief impressions post but it took on a life of it's own and turned into more of a full review. I'd like to note that this is still fairly early on so my feelings could change, but I have spent a fair amount of time with them over the past couple of weeks to feel like that the initial shiny new toy syndrome has worn off, at least a bit.
Build Quality
Being based off a custom design the build quality has a hand made yet extremely well produced feel. The Westone 4 by comparison, while it has proven durable over time, feels somewhat cheap and plasticky by comparison. The wood caps on the 4.Ai are the icing on the cake, it's what makes them feel truly special and unique.
The cord on the other hand leaves a bit to be desired. I'm not a big fan of memory wire, I like the Westone 4 style of cable without any memory wire at all so the Heir cables excessively long memory wire is a bit of an annoyance, I've started to get used to it but I don't think I'll ever love it. Another gripe is the plug itself, the end is a bit large which makes it a harder fit with my iPhone 4S with it's Sena Lugano case on. When I insert the plug it pushes the case out a little. These issues could make a case for trying the Magnus 1 cable, the memory wire seems to be a more manageable length and the right angle jack looks to be tapered enough that it might not pose the same issues with my iPhone case... hmmm....
The large Pelican style case included appears to be durable and some might prefer it's size but personally I'd much rather have a much smaller case. For now I've been using a spare Shure hard zippered case I had laying around. As I understand it though, Heir now has a smaller box that will be shipping with the 4.Ai's in future.
A Note On Tips
I tend to use Comply or Shure Black olive tips with my IEM's, this is mainly due to a sensitivity with silicone tips I developed quite a few years back. Sometimes I'll find an IEM that just doesn't work with either of these tips and I was bit worried the 4.Ai's would be one of these. After a brief amount of experimentation with the stock tips I was happy to find that I actually prefer the 4.Ai with Comply's.
Sound
The 4.Ai is hard to nail down because it doesn't have a strong character of it's own. It adds very little flavor to the music so the quality and individual characteristics of each recording as well as the equipment preceding it are allowed to shine through. I feel this is due to its transparency combined with a lack of emphasis on any one frequency range. There doesn't seem to be any peakiness or extreme dips or rolloffs in frequency response, everything comes across as well represented. It's this balance and coherency from top to bottom as well as the detail and transparency that I think are the real stories of the of the 4.Ai.
Treble has presence and extension without sounding harsh. It's lively yet smooth and doesn't draw undue attention to itself. Excessive or exaggerated sibilance can be a deal breaker for me so this was an area of concern with the 4.Ai but I'm happy to report it was concern without merit. If there's sibilance in a recording it will be present in the 4.Ai but it is rendered in one of the most natural fashions I've heard in a headphone, it's not dulled by a dip in the frequency response, nor is it highlighted or over emphasized by a peak.
Bass also doesn't draw undue attention, that's not to say it's lacking, it's not in the least. It's fast and punchy with decent extension. It has presence when it's supposed to and it gets out of the way when it should, yet even in the case of poor recordings I've tried I've not felt the bass to be lacking. It's a neat trick actually, when you're not used to this characteristic it makes it hard to know what to expect from recording to recording, I kept half expecting to be disappointed but I haven't been thus far.
Like the bass and treble, the midrange manages a nice balancing act. It's forward without sounding aggressive, it's neither thin or thick, nor dry or overly lush. Like the treble it has a hint of smoothness but not overly so. I was more of a tube guy years ago when I sold audio gear and worked for Swans Speaker Systems so I tend towards a preference for richer mids. Tonally the 4.Ai feels pretty close to spot on, I've wondered if a little more richness might make them that much better but then I wonder if that might be too much of a good thing by introducing a coloration.
One thing I have found is, dependant on the recording, the 4.Ai's seem to come alive at certain volume levels . This isn't something unique to the 4.Ai, I've heard this characteristic in other phones in the past but it is worth noting because if you tend to listen at lower levels the 4.Ai might seem a bit flat sounding. In some cases with other phones that exhibited this trait I found that point of coming alive was too loud for my comfort level but I don't feel this is the case with the 4.Ai, it seems to hit that mark without being excessive, at least for me.
Detail and transparency of the 4.Ai is rather astounding, especially given it's price. I hate to use this cliché, but it's true, I've heard things in recordings that I've not noticed before. This isn't the overemphasized treble kind of detail, it's due to the 4.Ai's highly transparent nature allowing further insight into the recording. This is for good and for bad, while I never found the detail to be thrown at me in an overwhelming manner, it did show some recordings to have faults I've not noticed before. For instance, I was listening to Right Away, Great Captain! "The Church Of The Good Thief", in one song the background vocal on the extreme right was slightly distorted. I'd never noticed this before and was a bit concerned there was something wrong with my 4.Ai so I went back and listened with both the W3000ANV and Westone 4. The distortion was barely audible with the Westone 4 and that vocal line is almost undetectable on the W3000ANV which I found surprising as they are highly resolving. On the flip side though, take a denser recording like Apparat's "The Devil's Walk" and all kinds of little subtle additions in the recording show through or you become transported to the space a recording like Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Sessions" takes place in.
That brings me to soundstage and imaging. Imaging is quite good, pinpoint accuracy and instruments have their own space and the size of vocals and instruments is very good. The problem is that the space they live in is rather compact, left to right isn't too bad although it doesn't really extend much beyond the ears. Depth is lacking quite a bit, there's very little front to back layering and vocals as well as instruments are not left with much space to breathe. I've done much of my serious listening with the Audioquest Dragonfly which is somewhat forward with a flat stage in it's own right so this issue has been somewhat exagerrated in most of my listening. When I switched to the M-DAC there was more space but still somewhat shallow and confining. Soundstage in a headphone is fairly far down my priority list so for the most part this doesn't bother me too much but I haven't been able to shake the feeling that if there was a greater sense of space with more breathing room for the instruments it would push the 4.Ai's to another level.
Dynamics are another area that I felt held the 4.Ai back a bit, overall not bad but on some recordings I felt like the sound was becoming compressed and held back a bit. It took away from the dramatic nature of some of these recordings leaving me feeling underwhelmed. Now I don't want to lay the blame totally at the feet of the 4.Ai, this isn't something I tested with the M-DAC while it was here so I've only noted this with the Dragonfly and iPhone 4S. It's very likely that the Dragonfly being limited to USB power may have more to do with this than the 4.Ai itself but it is worth noting regardless because if that's the case it suggests the 4.Ai needs a little something behind it to really shine.
Pace, rhythm and timing or PRaT is an area that I find rather important yet, for me at least, it seems somewhat intangible and hard to define exactly what gets my toe tapping more in one headphone over another. Many of headphones I've had recently haven't quite hit the mark but the 4.Ai paired with the Audioquest Dragonfly is downright addictive. It's lively, quick, and punchy in a way other headphones I've had recently haven't quite been able to match.
Interestingly though when I switched the 4.Ai to the M-DAC it lost some of that toe tapping goodness which was replaced with a richer, more lush nature. This to me again highlighted the transparency of the 4.Ai, it allowed the character of the DAC and amp to show through moreso than injecting it's own character. But it also highlights that trying to write about the nature of the 4.Ai is quite difficult because that nature can change depending on how it's being fed, both with electronics and music.
A brief comparison to the Westone 4
For reference, I use the longer P series Comply tips on the Westone 4.
I've been a fairly big fan of the Westone 4 since I bought it last year but it was a rather large step down from the JH13Pro's. Being an IEM guy who can't do customs I've been looking for universals that will get me closer to what I heard from the JH13Pro's when I had them (I had to give up on the idea of customs due to some issues with my left ear related to TMJ I have in my jaw). I've been very excited by the entry of a few custom manufacturers turning their customs into universals so I've been hoping to find something that betters the Westone 4. Initially I was looking at the FitEar ToGo! 334 but the extreme cost has held me back, the 4.Ai's cost on the other hand seemed much more reasonable although I couldn't help wonder at the price whether it would be more of a sidestep than an upgrade. From my perspective there's no doubt in my mind that the 4.Ai is a step or two up from the Westone 4.
Where the 4.Ai lacks much of a character of it's own the W4 is distinguished by it's somewhat thick sound with blunted or softened transients which makes it sound a bit veiled. The 4.Ai easily outdoes the W4 in regards to detail and transparency.
Treble is more present on the 4.Ai yet it's sweeter, lacking an element of graininess that the W4 has.
Mids on the W4 have a little more meat and richness but are set back, slightly recessed with a closed in quality in comparison.
After going back and forth numerous times on bass heavy tracks it's clear that the W4 has slightly more quantity whereas the 4.Ai gets almost there but is faster, punchier with more detail and texture.
Although as I've mentioned the soundstage is rather constricted the 4.Ai actually sounds more open and instruments are larger, more focused. This may be partially why the 4.Ai's stage seems small, it's trying to contain these larger images whereas the W4 doesn't feel so constrained because the overall picture is smaller. The scale is kind of like looking at a 3.5 x 5 picture as opposed to a 5x7. Neither excel at depth but partially due to the 4.Ai's forwardness the W4 does a little better in this regard.
The thing I've found with the W4 is it's a nice IEM for on the go and at work but ultimately I didn't find myself reaching for it when I wanted to just sit back and listen to music. The 4.Ai on the other hand achieves this and as such allowed me to feel comfortable with my decision to sell my ATH-W3000ANV's. Not that the 4.Ai is necessarily a direct replacement for the W3000ANV but I tend to prefer IEM's, the only reason I built a modestly high-end home rig was because universal IEM's hadn't reached the level of customs. Although it's been quite some time since I heard the JH13Pro's, the 4.Ai feels like it gets me close enough that I can again pursue a high-end portable rig that will get far more use than a stationary home setup.
Summing Up
For some odd reason when I form initial impressions of a product I'll tend to come up with short, one to three word descriptors for them. For the 4.Ai's, "balanced chameleon" keeps popping into my head. After listening to a varied amount of music and a few different sources and amps I couldn't help but wonder how accurate my findings were, how much of what I was hearing was the character of the source and amp because the nature of the 4.Ai seemed to change by what and how it was fed.
I haven't heard all the other universal IEM contenders in the 4.Ai's price range, nor have I heard any of the newer higher priced entries into the universal arena, but based on what I have heard and my recollections of the JH Audio JH13Pro's I owned I can't help feel that the 4.Ai is one heck of a bargain because it does so much right. It certainly makes me wonder just what the 6.A and 8.A have to offer up, alas though, because of the issues with my ear I'm not likely to ever find out.
My hat goes off to Heir Audio not only for making such a fine product at a great price but also for their customer service which, like the 4.Ai, have been first class.
Edited by elnero - 10/14/12 at 7:13pmpost #852 of 230810/14/12 at 8:05pm- jdmoorman
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What size Comply tips fit the 4.Ai?
post #853 of 230810/15/12 at 12:44amQuote:Yes, that would look much better.
post #854 of 230810/15/12 at 3:04am- heart banger-97
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Quote:Originally Posted by elnero
Shortly after I received my 4.Ai's I started writing bits and pieces for what was supposed to be a brief impressions post but it took on a life of change depending on how it's being fed, both with electronics and music.
A brief comparison to the Westone 4
For reference, I use the longer P series Comply tips on the Westone 4.
I've been a fairly big fan of the Westone 4 since I bought it last year but it was a rather large step down from the JH13Pro's. Being an IEM guy who can't do customs I've been looking for universals that will get me closer to what I heard from the JH13Pro's when I had them (I had to give up on the idea of customs due to some issues with my left ear related to TMJ I have in my jaw). I've been very excited by the entry of a few custom manufacturers turning their customs into universals so I've been hoping to find something that betters the Westone 4. Initially I was looking at the FitEar ToGo! 334 but the extreme cost has held me back, the 4.Ai's cost on the other hand seemed much more reasonable although I couldn't help wonder at the price whether it would be more of a sidestep than an upgrade. From my perspective there's no doubt in my mind that the 4.Ai is a step or two up from the Westone 4.
Where the 4.Ai lacks much of a character of it's own the W4 is distinguished by it's somewhat thick sound with blunted or softened transients which makes it sound a bit veiled. The 4.Ai easily outdoes the W4 in regards to detail and transparency.
Treble is more present on the 4.Ai yet it's sweeter, lacking an element of graininess that the W4 has.
Mids on the W4 have a little more meat and richness but are set back, slightly recessed with a closed in quality in comparison.
After going back and forth numerous times on bass heavy tracks it's clear that the W4 has slightly more quantity whereas the 4.Ai gets almost there but is faster, punchier with more detail and texture.
Although as I've mentioned the soundstage is rather constricted the 4.Ai actually sounds more open and instruments are larger, more focused. This may be partially why the 4.Ai's stage seems small, it's trying to contain these larger images whereas the W4 doesn't feel so constrained because the overall picture is smaller. The scale is kind of like looking at a 3.5 x 5 picture as opposed to a 5x7. Neither excel at depth but partially due to the 4.Ai's forwardness the W4 does a little better in this regard.
The thing I've found with the W4 is it's a nice IEM for on the go and at work but ultimately I didn't find myself reaching for it when I wanted to just sit back and listen to music. The 4.Ai on the other hand achieves this and as such allowed me to feel comfortable with my decision to sell my ATH-W3000ANV's. Not that the 4.Ai is necessarily a direct replacement for the W3000ANV but I tend to prefer IEM's, the only reason I built a modestly high-end home rig was because universal IEM's hadn't reached the level of customs. Although it's been quite some time since I heard the JH13Pro's, the 4.Ai feels like it gets me close enough that I can again pursue a high-end portable rig that will get far more use than a stationary home setup.
great
(I doesn't hear 4ai) but have you tried shure olives with w4? I think that comply makes w4 more veil.
post #855 of 230810/15/12 at 3:26am- elnero
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Quote:
Yes, I've tried the olives. I believe people will hear tips differently depending phsiology and preferences. For me the black olives add a bit of harshness to the treble and the fit isn't quite as good.Return HomeBack to Forum: Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors- Heir Audio 4.Ai - Appreciation/Impression/Review Thread
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This way, I can have much more ear time with myyyyyy precious.
