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FR graphs - neutral, yet below 0 dB? - Page 2

post #16 of 22

You can't compare a perfectly straight line and say the headphone sounds dead neutral because of it.  You have to compensate for the ear's frequency response-- the upper midrange and lower treble tend to get amplified from a headphone, so what measures dead flat for the compensated graphs is actually on the bright side of neutral.  Both headroom and Tyll mention this, but take a fr graph, and draw a flat horizontal line out to roughly 500 or 1000hz, then make it taper down gradually -10db to 20khz, and that's a more realistic representation of neutral.  Of course everybody's ears hear things differently because they're shaped differently, but it's a better way to find a neutral headphone compared to just drawing a flat line.  Also this is just my personal method of flatness, so don't take it as universal.

 Also to note that perceived frequency response-- especially in the bass range, also differs drastically depending on the amount of ringing and non-linear distortion in said frequency range.  Purrin brought up an example about the TH900 vs a Denon headphone.  The TH900 measures to have a huge bass bump compared to the Denons, but it has way less non-linear distortion in its bass, and it decays faster, so it is perceived to have less bass.

 

Also to note, is that you might not want a perfectly flat headphone/speakers for mastering, you might even want something on the brighter side of things so you can more easily get rid of flaws in the recording.  NS10 is a good example of this.

 

 

 

Here's my take on the TOTL headphones:

 

Sennheiser HD800:

1000

 

 

Lower bass rolloff is much more apparent in actual listening, this is a limitation of a dynamic driver open headphone.  Its lower treble is on the brighter side of things, which is easily noticeable in listening.  Its midrange is so gooood.

 

 

Stax SR-009:

 

1000

 

 

I've not heard this, but may people describe it to be extremely flat and has the best treble reproduction of all headphones.  

 

 

Audez'e LCD2:

 

1000

 

 

This headphone is described to have the best bass reproduction and the most accurate midrange timbre of nearly all the headphones on the market, but many people also don't like it because it's lacking in extended treble after 10khz that can provide 'air' and 'sparkle' to the music.


Edited by TMRaven - 8/6/12 at 11:17am
post #17 of 22

Yea I figured some1 would come in and mention exactly this, well my ears doesn't quite agree but get close but the line I draw and this line comes where close anyway.

post #18 of 22

I don't believe anyone specifically said this, but the reason one is below 0dB is because it has a lower sensitivity.  V6 is something like 106dB, re252 is like 103dB.  He probably measures everything with the same input to show accurate sensitivity.

post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeNmAc View Post

I don't believe anyone specifically said this, but the reason one is below 0dB is because it has a lower sensitivity.  V6 is something like 106dB, re252 is like 103dB.  He probably measures everything with the same input to show accurate sensitivity.

This doesn't work since on the same sheet, lower right corner, you can see that the V6 requires 0.061 volts (0.05 mW) to reach 90 dB SPL while the re272 only requires 0.029 volts (0.04 mW).

post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the awesome posts guys.

 

 

But I'm still having a bit of difficulty understanding these graphs with the line. Maybe I'm missing something incredibly simple, but is the line drawn the true reference point (instead of 0) from which to assess the over/underemphasis of a particular frequency by a headphone OR is it that the flatter the line comes out, the more neutral it is? If the latter's the case, no matter what headphones you choose, the line's bound to come out straight anyway, maybe angled, but straight, so wouldn't that make everything neutral? This is really confusing me.

post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 

After going through the graphs and other posts on the average frequency amplitude line on Head-Fi I think I get it.

 

IT IS the reference point. :)

 

Thanks again for all the help guys.

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva108 View Post

Alright confused again. :p

 

Are you saying it doesn't matter if the line is downwards sloping or flat or upward sloping, it'll be neutral either way (but sound 'warm' or 'bright' depending on the angle of the line)?

 

But wouldn't that make every headphone out there neutral since the line will come out as straight anyway?

 

Thanks for the patience. :p

 

I guess he means that while looking closely there will be highs and lows, its the overall curve that gives the general impression of a headphone being 'bright' or 'warm'.

Neutral means there's no over-emphasis of any particular part of the spectrum.

The dB value you mention is against a reference. What you need to see is the overall difference in various frequencies.

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