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New Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass Amplifier - Fall Release - Page 6

post #76 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

I'd say stick with the design as-is.

 

But...

 

The one unarguable advantage of a "balanced" amp is that the separate contacts of the 4 pin XLR or dual 3 pin XLR connectors eliminates the common ground contact resistance of the TRS plug/jack that results in increased crosstalk.

 

So if it's not too late in the game, I'd suggest replacing one of the two TRS jacks with a 4 pin XLR. Sure, pins 2 and 4 would still need to be taken to a common ground point, but the resistance of a good solder joint is much lower than the contact resistance of the TRS plug/jack. HiFiMAN is doing this on their HE-6 amp.

 

se

 

 

I was also going to recommend the same at very least as an ergonomic convenience to HE-6/K1000 owners or others with 4-pin XLR cables.

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post #77 of 639

Makes sense to me...

post #78 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

So does Eddie Current and Donald North.

 

Thanks!

 

se

post #79 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

 

I was also going to recommend the same at very least as an ergonomic convenience to HE-6/K1000 owners or others with 4-pin XLR cables.

 

Yeah. Would obviate the need for an adapter cable which leaves you with a big clunky pair of XLR's in the middle of the cable to knock about and damage things.

 

se

post #80 of 639
Thread Starter 

Yes, this seems like the best idea. I didn't do this on the LF because the second jack was dedicated to low Z, high sensitivity headphones (with series resistors).

 

The LG is better suited to headphones with higher power requirements leaving the second jack free to be an XLR jack.

 

I'll look into making this mod for the production amps.

post #81 of 639

That sounds great Alex...Another reason I want one though...Ugh.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by runeight View Post

Yes, this seems like the best idea. I didn't do this on the LF because the second jack was dedicated to low Z, high sensitivity headphones (with series resistors).

 

The LG is better suited to headphones with higher power requirements leaving the second jack free to be an XLR jack.

 

I'll look into making this mod for the production amps.

post #82 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

That sounds great Alex...Another reason I want one though...Ugh.

 

post #83 of 639

So with regard to the question I asked a while ago about whether this amp will be balanced or not...

 

Tyll has a pretty good explanation for why some of the benefits of tube amplification aren't observed in balanced mode.  In short, the euphonic even order harmonic distortions that make tube amps sound "tubey" are canceled out in balanced operation.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/140716/what-are-the-technical-advantages-of-a-balanced-headphone-amplifier

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpalmer
The amplifiers running around at the 1K level are already very, very good. Going balanced at this point is in my experience, the best way to improve the sound quality, it offers the largest chunk of improvement that I've heard at that level.
I want to echo gpalmers sentiment here: As you go up and up with a traditional unbalanced amp, especially once you get above $1K (not including DACs and such) you begin to be pretty hard up against the diminishing returns curve, so doubling your price gats you only a few percentage points of sonic performance improvement. But doubling the price with adding (effectively) double the electronics of a balanced amp seemingly DOUBLES the performance, which is a damn good deal when your normally so hard against the diminishing returns curve. That "doubling" of performance may be an overstatement, but it's pretty clear, to any one that has heard it, that something very special happens with balanced amps that would be very hard to get any other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iomusic
actually it is for public broadcasting such as a concert , because the signal transmits long distance,the cable is hundreds feet long.
Balanced transmittion lines is a similar thing but really not the issue here. Using balanced trasmition line schemes can dramatically reduce common-mode interference on audio transmittion (and many other things like telephone lines) over distance, but it is not really the issue here. Balanced mono-block power amplifiers for speakers is a more direct analogy, and has long been done in the speaker world for similar improvements in the higher end of that spectrum of product. When we came out with the BlockHead (the first commercially available balanced headphone amp) our intention was to exactly mimic the balance mono-block paradigm of the high-end audio world. At first we did it simply because we wanted to make a rediculously expensive headphone amp that the broad audiophile audience would understand. After listening, we were gald we did, as the improvement is truly dramatic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpalmer
The situation is less clear in the tube world,
I'm pretty sure this subject hasn't been explored here fully, and I have some serious concerns with tube balanced amps. Here's why:

Much of the gloriousness of a tube sound is the second harmonic distortion content of the drive signal. (This gets a bit technical, so I hope you can follow along without a bunch of diagrams and pre-existing technical understanding. Sorry if this isn't clear to many.) Second order distortion comes from a monotonic transfer function of the amplifier. That means that the gain curve of the amp is a simple curve shape that is characteristic of a single ended tube amp. There are push/pull tube amps that reduce or make partly "s" shaped this transfer function, but in my view it is the pure single ended tube amps that are the real winners in term of delivering that "something special" of tube amps. For example the magic of a 300B SE amp would largely be lost if using 300B tubes in a push-pull design. Now imagin that you have 2 300B SE tube amps driving headphones in a balanced configureation. What would happen is that you effectively make the two SE tube amps into one 300B push-pull amp with the headphone driver in the middle. The two monotonic transfer function curves that give you that sweet SE sound now cancel each other, to some degree, and you are left effectively a sum transfer function that is symetrical. A symetrical transfer function give you odd-order harmonic distortions not even-order harmonic distortions. Disclaimer: This is just an educated guess on my part and I would love to hear from some of the tube designers how desirable even-order distortions could be retained in a balanced configuration.

(Please ignore that last paragraph if it just served to confuse the crap out of you.)

Bottom line: get yourself to a meet where you can hear a good balanced amp, and you know what the heck we're so jazzed about.
post #84 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by runeight View Post

Yes, this seems like the best idea. I didn't do this on the LF because the second jack was dedicated to low Z, high sensitivity headphones (with series resistors).

 

The LG is better suited to headphones with higher power requirements leaving the second jack free to be an XLR jack.

 

I'll look into making this mod for the production amps.

 

I also like this idea.  It would keep me from swapping cables one my lcd3 as I go from my Mjolnir to this (if i buy ofc).

post #85 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrahman View Post

In short, the euphonic even order harmonic distortions that make tube amps sound "tubey" are canceled out in balanced operation.

 

That is just a 'theory' or urban legend about what some people seem to think other people like about tube sound.  There is no actual proof at all that this is in fact the case.  IME, distortion is distortion and always sounds bad and this theory is more of a myth.  Granted, many tube amps have higher distortion but they also sound bad just like there are bad sounding SS amps.

post #86 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

That is just a 'theory' or urban legend about what some people seem to think other people like about tube sound.  There is no actual proof at all that this is in fact the case.  IME, distortion is distortion and always sounds bad and this theory is more of a myth.  Granted, many tube amps have higher distortion but they also sound bad just like there are bad sounding SS amps.

Guess the ECBA REALLY sucks. Rightttt

post #87 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Guess the ECBA REALLY sucks. Rightttt

What?  


Edited by Anaxilus - 8/26/12 at 4:11am
post #88 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

What?  

 

Think you read that wrong dood.  Might want to look at my amp.

No, that was sarcasm. haha

 

Damn the internet. 

post #89 of 639

Guys, just remember what the topic of this thread is. :)

post #90 of 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

 

Doh!  redface.gif  

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