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The JVC HA-S500.. Appreciation, fan thread. - Page 43

post #631 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post

 

@analogsurviver,  After doing more listining between burn in, I have done some A/Bing with the FXD80.  The FXD80 has a bigger soundstage, wider, more air around instraments, an airer sound overall!  I have been going back and forth with the S500 and FXD80 comparing the sound and I found that when I set the crossfeed in my jRiver Media Center 16, to the most aggressive setting, the S500 sound gets very, very close to the FXD80.  They get just as airy as the FXD80, with a very expansive spatial sound.....very encouraging and enjoyable.  This more aggressive crossfeed setting does a lot for live performances, with a more lifelike dreamy sound, which I like very much.  Classical, Jazz, Celtic, female vocals, are genre's of some of my music that benefit expecially!

 

Just a few more impressions, as I can make the S500 sound very, very close to the FXD80, it just took a little experimentation!  I am hoping more burn in time will open up the S500 to it's full potential.....getting closer but not there yet, just past 30hrs "drum and bass" burn in!  They do have a long way to go to match the modded ATH-W1000X in it's delicate beautiful sound though, after comparisons.......but the ATH-W1000X has the DHC cable, still might braid one for the S500 if it continues to improve!

@ cute : Thank you very much for your impressions. It is stll early in the day for the HA-S500 and sometimes a minute variation in settings makes a night and day difference between "meh" and "over the moon" reaction to the sound. Just take your time with the experimentation - perhaps you should wait till you have say 200 hours on them due to changes during burn in. The genres of music you mention are very much the bulk of my listening therefore your impressions are very encouraging. I will download the jRiver Media Center 17  ( 30 day free trial period ) after I receive my HA-S500s and will compare it with crosfeed on foobar2000 and the crossfeed on Maier portable amp kit. For home or recording monitoring I will go with whatever will be the closest approximation to spatial performance of AKG K 1000. For portable I do not see myself running around with a netbook though.

 

Since you mention FXD80 - I have never heard it, yet in measurement graphs I see some potentially troublesome spots; I mean few rather sharp peaks

visible in FR with coresponding shifts in phase response. Can you hear any discontinuities at those points? Since FXD80 is IEM, it may well be difficult to pinpoint this consistently from one listener to another due to resonances in each respective ear canal that will invariably be different from person to person, possibly masking those deviations of FXD80s - anything of the sort that might have an analogy in sound of HA-S500 ? 

 

It is hard to wait for my pair to arrive, with only what I can do at the moment is to  - drool - lol !

post #632 of 8117

So is it obsessive on my part to be checking my S500 order's tracking status ~5 times a day? lol biggrin.gif

post #633 of 8117
Well, add me to the growing list of people with these cans. Received mine yesterday and I initially hooked them up to my iPad just to get an idea of their sound.

These are my first pair of on-ears so when I first put these on it was a weird feeling, I'm used to IEMs or full-size cans, so the comfort with these is going to take a little getting used to. I have a pair of the velours on the way, so I'm sure that will help.

As for the sound, they do sound good. I was expecting a massive amount of bass, but I'm not hearing that. The bass is a bit boomy but at times. It does have a meaty, growl-like quality though. If it tightens up with burn-in then it should be quite nice.

The mids are a bit weird to my ears. It seems that the lower-mids are pushed quite a bit forward while upper-mids are a bit more recessed. This is more evident on some songs, and not on others. It's a little weird. I haven't heard a headphone push this particular part of the range this far forward before. Time will tell if this evens out.

The highs are actually quite nice. I can hear a good bit of detail but they seem a bit recessed or at least they are being overpowered by the mids and the bass.

Overall, I can tell that these cans have promise. I can going to take the recommendation and burn these in for a while. I think some Daft Punk should do the trick. wink.gif

I will report back with more impressions.
post #634 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

@ cute : Thank you very much for your impressions. It is stll early in the day for the HA-S500 and sometimes a minute variation in settings makes a night and day difference between "meh" and "over the moon" reaction to the sound. Just take your time with the experimentation - perhaps you should wait till you have say 200 hours on them due to changes during burn in. The genres of music you mention are very much the bulk of my listening therefore your impressions are very encouraging. I will download the jRiver Media Center 17  ( 30 day free trial period ) after I receive my HA-S500s and will compare it with crosfeed on foobar2000 and the crossfeed on Maier portable amp kit. For home or recording monitoring I will go with whatever will be the closest approximation to spatial performance of AKG K 1000. For portable I do not see myself running around with a netbook though.

 

Since you mention FXD80 - I have never heard it, yet in measurement graphs I see some potentially troublesome spots; I mean few rather sharp peaks

visible in FR with coresponding shifts in phase response. Can you hear any discontinuities at those points? Since FXD80 is IEM, it may well be difficult to pinpoint this consistently from one listener to another due to resonances in each respective ear canal that will invariably be different from person to person, possibly masking those deviations of FXD80s - anything of the sort that might have an analogy in sound of HA-S500 ? 

 

It is hard to wait for my pair to arrive, with only what I can do at the moment is to  - drool - lol !

 

I use custom silicone tips on the FXD80, they are also carbon nanotube.....they sound very nice, and can sound very close to the S500, as I already stated.  If you dem jRiver MC 17, try the 44.1 to 88.2 resampling along with the crossfeed settings.  It also has Parametric Equilizer settings that can be set for any frequency!  I have Rockbox Fuze that has a build for crossfeed, and the same EQ settings can be set the same as jRiver.

post #635 of 8117

Thank you for the reply. I will dem the jRiver MC 17 and try the upsampling. I hope JVC HA-S500 will be palatable enough without the need to EQ, as portable kit amp with crossfeed from Jan Meier may then satisfy all my portable needs. Finances do not permit portable beast capable of parametric EQ,

there are far more pressing needs in my recording department at any given time point in forseeable future. Storia mai finita ...

 

Enjoy your music !

post #636 of 8117

I have owned many headphone brands throughout the yaers A-T, Beyer, Philips, etc, etc.; but JVC is the one brand that improves the most with "Music Burn-In". The RX700 took at least 300 hours, the S450 and the S600 at least 400 hours of Burn-In. With the inherant stiffness of the carbon nonotubes I would hasten to guess that it will take at least 500-600 hours Burn-In to settle in to it's true SQ. So be patient and I'm almost certain you'll like the SQ of the S500's. Unfortuately I didn't care for the SQ and quality of build of the S600 when compared to the S450 and RX700, I thought it was built for a lower grade niche market that likes bass response and that's about it. Can't wait until authorized dealers are set up for U.S. and I'll order these in a heartbeat. Happy Listening.

post #637 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Thank you for the reply. I will dem the jRiver MC 17 and try the upsampling. I hope JVC HA-S500 will be palatable enough without the need to EQ, as portable kit amp with crossfeed from Jan Meier may then satisfy all my portable needs. Finances do not permit portable beast capable of parametric EQ,

there are far more pressing needs in my recording department at any given time point in forseeable future. Storia mai finita ...

 

Enjoy your music !

 

I reduced the bass EQ at 31hz and 60hz from -4db to -2db at about 40hrs......now at over 80hrs I reduced from -2db to 0db.....so burn in will eventually take care of the bass bloat on the low end on the S500, just listen to dsnuts about burn in, "drum and bass" with excess volume!  Mids starting to smooth out, I was noticing a "shouty" effect, but is diminishing with burn in as well!


Edited by cute - 8/19/12 at 9:19am
post #638 of 8117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhfactor1 View Post

I have owned many headphone brands throughout the yaers A-T, Beyer, Philips, etc, etc.; but JVC is the one brand that improves the most with "Music Burn-In". The RX700 took at least 300 hours, the S450 and the S600 at least 400 hours of Burn-In. With the inherant stiffness of the carbon nonotubes I would hasten to guess that it will take at least 500-600 hours Burn-In to settle in to it's true SQ. So be patient and I'm almost certain you'll like the SQ of the S500's. Unfortuately I didn't care for the SQ and quality of build of the S600 when compared to the S450 and RX700, I thought it was built for a lower grade niche market that likes bass response and that's about it. Can't wait until authorized dealers are set up for U.S. and I'll order these in a heartbeat. Happy Listening.


So according to rhfactor1 here. You are saying my 160 hours of burn for my HA-S500 might not be enough? I was leaning toward 200 to be acceptable but this does not surprise me one bit..If they improve even 2% more than what they are now I am all for a longer burn in. 

 

For the guys that don't have one. I suggest making a little burn in station to just leave your headphones and earphones burning overnight..Something as simple as a stereo setup with a 3.5 splitter. I use this.

These are cheap but I consider it an essential part of burn in. That is if you own more than one headphone.


Edited by Dsnuts - 8/19/12 at 10:02am
post #639 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post


So according to rhfactor1 here. You are saying my 160 hours of burn for my HA-S500 might not enough? I was leaning toward 200 to be acceptable but this does not surprise me one bit..If they improve even 2% more than what they are now I am all for a longer burn in. 

 

I honestly think you just need to pump up the volume to bring the hours down - get as much energy flowing through them as possible.  What about that guy who burned in his FXD40s for like 300 hours, experiencing little in the way in changes, then blasted them to hell for 24 hours and boom, they were there?

 

The material is strong and probably can take a ton more volume than a paper or plastic dynamics, well above audible distortion levels as long as the driver is not experiencing tearing is should be fine.  The point is to make it as loose as possible to increase transient response, right?  Poor transient response is where all the the bloat and congestion manifests.

 

I have about 60-70 hours on my pair now, about 40 of that with DnB at levels about twice what I listen at.  They've improved in a way that has me stunned.  As they are they leave my FXD80s I picked up from dweaver in the dust, but I'll be subjecting those to the same effort soon.  The bass has subdued a bit, is now sharp and textured and the mids have pretty much lost any hint of congestion.  I can actually turn the volume up a couple notches above my normal listening (very loud, probably over 100 db) before I hear them struggle when they're on ear, of course just for short periods of time.  I can swap these between my GR07s and feel that I'm giving up little in terms of speed or definition, which is crazy as these do still pack a wallop down low.  That a far cry from what I experienced on open box.

 

If any head-fiers are in San Diego let me know.  I work in various coffee shops around the downtown/uni heights area and would be happy to meet up so you could have a listen, just my MBA -> DF -> S500.


Edited by bobeau - 8/19/12 at 9:59am
post #640 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post

For the guys that don't have one. I suggest making a little burn in station to just leave your headphones and earphones burning overnight..Something as simple as a stereo setup with a 3.5 splitter. I use this.

These are cheap but I consider it an essential part of burn in. That is if you own more than one headphone.

 

This is awesome, just picked one up from amazon for $10.50 w/ prime.

post #641 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post

 

I reduced the bass EQ at 31hz and 60hz from -4db to -2db at about 40hrs......now at over 80hrs I reduced from -2db to 0db.....so burn in will eventually take care of the bass bloat on the low end on the S500, just listen to dsnuts about burn in, "drum and bass" with excess volume!  Mids starting to smooth out, I was noticing a "shouty" effect, but is diminishing with burn in as well!

That sounds promising indeed. When I get them, I might unleash even harder form of burn in on them than "drum and bass" , in view what another poster said about burn in time requirement for JVCs in general to settle down to final SQ in order to shorten the process as much as possible. However, my expirience with everything audio, particularly transducers, indicate there is generally no such thing as shortcut. It is like cold; it lasts for a week untreated or seven days treated, take your pick...

 

More about the possible form of that "forced burn in" once I receive my pair - I want first to see if JVCs are man enough to take it well, I do not want to propose something that might demage them.

post #642 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobeau View Post

 

I honestly think you just need to pump up the volume to bring the hours down - get as much energy flowing through them as possible.  What about that guy who burned in his FXD40s for like 300 hours, experiencing little in the way in changes, then blasted them to hell for 24 hours and boom, they were there?

 

The material is strong and probably can take a ton more volume than a paper or plastic dynamics, well above audible distortion levels as long as the driver is not experiencing tearing is should be fine.  The point is to make it as loose as possible to increase transient response, right?  Poor transient response is where all the the bloat and congestion manifests.

 

I have about 60-70 hours on my pair now, about 40 of that with DnB at levels about twice what I listen at.  They've improved in a way that has me stunned.  As they are they leave my FXD80s I picked up from dweaver in the dust, but I'll be subjecting those to the same effort soon.  The bass has subdued a bit, is now sharp and textured and the mids have pretty much lost any hint of congestion.  I can actually turn the volume up a couple notches above my normal listening (very loud, probably over 100 db) before I hear them struggle when they're on ear, of course just for short periods of time.  I can swap these between my GR07s and feel that I'm giving up little in terms of speed or definition, which is crazy as these do still pack a wallop down low.  That a far cry from what I experienced on open box.

 

If any head-fiers are in San Diego let me know.  I work in various coffee shops around the downtown/uni heights area and would be happy to meet up so you could have a listen, just my MBA -> DF -> S500.

Well, I am on the wrong side of the pond to meet you live, but I would like you to know I appreciate your posts very much. They are very concise and follow in logical order. Just keep up good work.

post #643 of 8117

Just curious, does anyone actually know what carbon nanotubes are? I watched a few YouTube videos and have some idea but not sure at all how it applies and is used in headphone/drivers.

post #644 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
. However, my expirience with everything audio, particularly transducers, indicate there is generally no such thing as shortcut. It is like cold; it lasts for a week untreated or seven days treated, take your pick...

 

 

Perhaps, but I think when you're dealing with a material that is possibly orders of magnitudes stronger (depending on how they're actually used in this implementation) than traditional materials you have alot more leeway before its possible to damage.  Part of the allure of trying something like this with cheap headphones is well... they're cheap.  I don't really care much if I destroy something I spent $80 on.  In my former life as an office worker I had a desktop rig that approached $5k.  Of course other's threshold on this may vary.

 

That said, if you're at a point of audible distortion (ie. compression) if might not make a whole lot of sense to push them further, if they're struggling to produce music and you just get a totally compressed mush then the there's probably too much energy lost to heat vs. actually being used to push the drivers themselves, they simply can't move fast enough to respond to the load.  Let them loosen up to the point where they can produce that sound level with minimal compression, then push them up further.  Out of the box they had some notable compression at regular listening levels.  Now I can get them way louder than I normally would listen to before that kind of compression sets in.  There's probably a limit here where the distortion more is limited by what your own ears can take and the size of the enclosure, etc, and I think this material might just eclipse that.  Sorta like fantastic speakers limited by the room and associated treatments + source/driving power.

 

As I mentioned earlier my regular listening level out of my DF was about 3 clicks on more modern music, maybe 4 on older things that were before the start of the loudness wars (ie. minimal compression applied at mastering), and pushing it up to 5 clicks produced audible distortion that was beyond simple congestion or bloat.  I have Daft Punk's classic Homework blasting at 6 clicks and it's almost crystal clear, the bass is hitting hard and precise and very little evidence of congestion.  When I tried this a week ago at level 5 the bass was hardly coming thru, it couldn't keep it together.  Now I wouldn't actually *listen* at this level for more than a few minutes out of worry for damaging my hearing, but they're doing it and it's quite remarkable to hear.  


Edited by bobeau - 8/19/12 at 11:10am
post #645 of 8117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sygyzy View Post

Just curious, does anyone actually know what carbon nanotubes are? I watched a few YouTube videos and have some idea but not sure at all how it applies and is used in headphone/drivers.

They are tubes made of carbon atoms.  I'm not entirely sure how it's used in headphone drivers, but I'd expect it's relatively crude - probably just nanotube filaments suspended in a plastic film.  You could read more about carbon nanotubes here if you'd like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube

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