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New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Impressions Thread - Page 100

post #1486 of 1582
I've done a fair bit of EQ testing with D600. Sometimes I wish the D600 had a sub-woofer 'off' switch. Taming the bass will help with creating a more neutral signature, and it may sound better for certain acoustic and instrumental pieces.

After a while I just embraced the D600s character, and that bass isn't always going to sound right for all music types. But, for some modern music, designed with a subwoofer in mind, the D600 performs it's best.

Right now I'm listening to some jazz, and notched down the bass as it was just to forward, and it sounds quite good. Certainly reducing frequency is more preferred in equalization, as in boosting a frequency, the effect is similar to using a compressor, and it can introduce unwanted resonance into the band.

Watching a movie, listening to psytrance, dub, dnb, or techno, I'm not touching a thing with the EQ.
post #1487 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceemsc View Post
 

Hi @SomeGuyDude  @Byrnie

 

ok, taking the Denon D600 frequency response graph :-

 

 

Would it be theoretically possible to get a "flat" response by applying opposite EQ?

 

E.g.

 

There's a big dip @ ~4KHz -> 5KHz of  -10dBr.

 

Adding +10dB @ 4KHz did make the sound much brighter but the vocals became too nasal; +8dB was more pleasantly subtle - my guess it boils down to personal preference, research & experimentation?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

 

Hey Mark! 

 

Pretty interesting question for someone who's pretty new! There are a few posts above mine that will give you some pretty good information. It seems based on your questions you've picked up a lot of basics on headphone measurements and EQ and have an inquisitive mind, so try and stick with me here. 

 

Graphs are a pretty tricky deal. Frequency response is the most common one people use, but it's not the only measurement taken, and the other ones are very important. One measurement I want to point you towards is the "cumulative spectral decay" (CSD) Plot. Frequency response is a measurement of a specific frequency without time taken into account. CSDs help look at how frequencies behave over time. So, a really good well controlled headphone like the LCD-3 has a plot like: 

 

 

You can see the sound dies off relatively quickly. Compare that to something that doesn't do well at all, like the Ultrasone Edition 8

 

 

So here at 4ms out the bass is still strong. This is due to the fact the Edition 8's aren't dampened and the bass reverberates inside the cup and keeps going. That headphone sells for $1200. Yikes! 

 

Another really good example of what a headphone should not do in a CSD plot is the beyerdynamic T1:

 

 

The treble is obviously very hot, but the frequency response won't show you that is lingers out 2-3ms. Ouch! That'll hurt the ears. 

 

Unfortunately, you wouldn't spot that from just the frequency response. 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately there aren't any CSD's for the D600. From my listening, I know there is a lot of ringing in the bass regions. So you're not just fighting the frequency response, but how the frequencies decay over time. 

post #1488 of 1582
Anyone done any Lawton style damping to the D600?

When I get around to it I will be.
post #1489 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post

Anyone done any Lawton style damping to the D600?

When I get around to it I will be.
I tried to get at the cups by removing the screws but I think it's impossible without damaging the phones.
post #1490 of 1582
^correct
post #1491 of 1582

Dear All,

 

Cutting the gain  @ 128Hz by  -2dBr definitely makes the bass less woolly so Great Tip!

 

Thanks for the all information posted;

Man-Alive! I had no idea how much depth & broad-knowledge is in this rich topic. It certainly needs more thought than just throwing money, the best brands & files together and hoping to get great quality out in the end-result. Surely musicians can't be talented at composition, instrument playing & the science behind audio as well?

 

I guess the ipod & earbuds generation are happy enough with the default automatic playback so long as it sounds like their tunes; I certainly would not go back to it except for convenience.

 

Regards,

 

Mark


Edited by ceemsc - 6/13/14 at 11:42am
post #1492 of 1582
I just picked up a very low hours D7100 today. So new the plastic protective film is still on.

First impressions are very good. Great bass and nice highs, good soundstage and as expected, excellent comfort and isolation (I have a D600 as well).

I'll do some A/B with my D7000 and see how they measure up. For now......a picture of Denons flagships. By the way, in person they are very sharp and the mahogany cups are amazing.

post #1493 of 1582

Couple of words about metal music + D600.
(Summary on impressions on metal + 37 cans is here http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution)

 

Denon AH-D600
By far one of the best cans at middle level. Comfortable fit. Wide, very wide soundstage (for closed headphones). Powerful bass, but alas not well controlled (bass kin of hang out on the wide soundstage). Highhs may become too bright on the bright DAC/amp, no complaints on the on a neutral or dark gear. Overall a bit too sweet sound character, has a tendency to embellish, to apply "Photoshop effects" to sound.

 

D600 talents:
Death: A sea of fun! I’m not sure, that Death should play soy joyfully, but when D600 play – they generate the most diverse emotions. Thanks for that.
Black: Well measured heavy bass (unlike on a number of other sub-genres) – the key to success.
Doom: Technical potency (yes, yes, again it’s about of volume of bass, albeit imperfectly controlled) coincides with the profile of the genre. Yes. They play doom. Savory.
Sludge, Stoner: Despite the overload on the bass, potentially unacceptable, D600 play Sludge/Stoner with more enthusiasm than their colleagues headphones on middle level.
Power: Probably the best cans for Power on the middle level (may be except AKG 712). Moderately lightweight and cheerful sound signature, nice midrange. Swollen bass is trying get in the way, but fortunately it fails to spoil the feast.
Symphonic: Slightly too brutal, but fun and cheerful anyway. Unintelligent, but entertaining interpretation of Sympho-metal.

 

That turns out not too well:
Thrash: Amorphous, bulky, slow. Characters of cheerful songs rotate in a tank with oil, wrapped in a soft protective shell…
Progressive: Fat and lard, looks like a greasy pan. Repulsive.
Alternative: Bass excess confidently leads the brain into the overdrive.

 

Overall, despite the impressive and apparent viability of a broad range of metal subgenres, D600 remain extremely non-neutral, non-flat and son non-universal headphones. Initial enthusiasm, if you are not full bore, is practically guaranteed. But how this enthusiasm will last, is much more difficult to say. Alas, for the cans with this level of "curvature", chances for close boredom coming are far from zero.

post #1494 of 1582

Well, it looks like D7100 is out of the question, but what do you guys think is good upgrade from the D600s? Was thinking maybe Mad dogs or alpha dogs, but I'm a little concerned that, people insult the 7100 for using the same drivers as a D600, but in all fairness, the alpha dogs are using the same drivers as the Fostex T-50RP, which is a $100 headphone, correct?

 

That seems even worse.

 

Anyway though, as much as I loved the D600 when I bought them, after I bought a new pair of IEMs that blow them out of the water, I just can't seem to enjoy them as much anymore.

post #1495 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapster View Post
 

Well, it looks like D7100 is out of the question, but what do you guys think is good upgrade from the D600s? Was thinking maybe Mad dogs or alpha dogs, but I'm a little concerned that, people insult the 7100 for using the same drivers as a D600, but in all fairness, the alpha dogs are using the same drivers as the Fostex T-50RP, which is a $100 headphone, correct?

 

That seems even worse.

 

Anyway though, as much as I loved the D600 when I bought them, after I bought a new pair of IEMs that blow them out of the water, I just can't seem to enjoy them as much anymore.

 

That certainly is a good point. 

 

The T50RP driver is actually a very good driver to begin with though. The reason people started modding it is that it performs very well in a few key areas. The modifications really begin to tweak the sound and take the driver to a maximum level of performance. If you compare the Mad Dogs to headphones in the same price range, they perform very competitively, excelling in some areas. When you buy those "professionally modified" headphones, you're really buying the SQ.

 

The D7100 uses the same driver as the D600, and really not much in the way of tuning is changed. In this case, you're really paying for the cosmetics more than anything.

 

FWIW, I think the Mad Dogs are excellent headphones, and really are a very good option at their price point. I'd easily pick them over the HD650, DT880, DT990, etc. The Alpha Dogs I think hit the wall on diminishing returns for the Fostex drivers. They sound very refined and very good, but I think at the $600 mark there are better headphones available. I think you're paying a bit for cosmetics for the alpha dogs. 

post #1496 of 1582
The Mad Dogs are pretty good. They don't have great separation though and a cramped stage. The design of the T50RP has a lot of restrictions. The thing with the Mad Dog is that it has taken a lot to get it to perform the way it does now, the D600 and D7100 are instantly good headphones.

I prefer the mids of the Mad Dog, they are not HD650 level in the mids but nothing really is. The Mad Dog is like a closed, less seductive and liquid HD650 which isn't a bad thing!

The HE400 would be a good upgrade to the D600 O
I think.
post #1497 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post

I just picked up a very low hours D7100 today. So new the plastic protective film is still on.

First impressions are very good. Great bass and nice highs, good soundstage and as expected, excellent comfort and isolation (I have a D600 as well).

I'll do some A/B with my D7000 and see how they measure up. For now......a picture of Denons flagships. By the way, in person they are very sharp and the mahogany cups are amazing.


Did you sell your TH900s for these. How do the D7100s compare to the TH900s? I personally didn't think they could compete with the TH900s (listened to the D7100s awhile ago) but I'm curious what you thought.
post #1498 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

Did you sell your TH900s for these. How do the D7100s compare to the TH900s? I personally didn't think they could compete with the TH900s (listened to the D7100s awhile ago) but I'm curious what you thought.

I sold my TH900's because my D7000 are about its equal, and really wanted a HE-6.........which I bought and am soooooo glad I did. They are overall sound wise the best headphone I've tried. Just a small notch above the D7000.

Now the D7100 I was able to buy as well with the proceeds from the sale so talk about an overall gain of two for one. I'd say the D7100 at over $1000 is not worth it but at half that price, heck yes. Well worth that price with great comfort, bass in droves and to my ear a very good sound sig. I am quite happy with it and have no intentions of selling it. Like having Denons two flagships. Different yet alike.
post #1499 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post


I sold my TH900's because my D7000 are about its equal, and really wanted a HE-6.........which I bought and am soooooo glad I did. They are overall sound wise the best headphone I've tried. Just a small notch above the D7000.

Now the D7100 I was able to buy as well with the proceeds from the sale so talk about an overall gain of two for one. I'd say the D7100 at over $1000 is not worth it but at half that price, heck yes. Well worth that price with great comfort, bass in droves and to my ear a very good sound sig. I am quite happy with it and have no intentions of selling it. Like having Denons two flagships. Different yet alike.

I can't argue with that.  The HE-6 is next on my list :D.

post #1500 of 1582
Well I certainly enjoyed being one of the earlier ones to test these. But now I'm moving on. Bought the Focal Spirit Classic. Interested to see how the D600 competes with it.
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