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New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Impressions Thread - Page 93

post #1381 of 1582

I had the D600 for a few days, bought them used and burned them in for about 30ish hours and thought they sounded terrible. Horribly bloated and muddy, they made everything sound plasticky and dull. There's little to no extension in the highs so there's no chance of them having a "fun" signature either. You could say there was veil on the sound but it's more like everything was covered with a thick layer of syrup.

 

Which is an absolute shame because the headphones themselves are very well made and are extremely comfortable to wear. They might be great solely for movies and games and such but I couldn't listen to any kind of music with them at all.


Edited by MrDelicious - 2/19/14 at 3:24am
post #1382 of 1582

I would like to give these a try despite the negatives that I have read. I would like to ask though if the ear pads are replaceable and where can I find/buy those. I have seen on amazon the D7000/5000/2000 pads but nowhere the d600/d7100 pads

post #1383 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by D4rkst3EL View Post

I would like to give these a try despite the negatives that I have read. I would like to ask though if the ear pads are replaceable and where can I find/buy those. I have seen on amazon the D7000/5000/2000 pads but nowhere the d600/d7100 pads

Give them a shot. For every previous guy who had a bad time there's way more who love the D600. It's in my arsenal with two other Denon classics and hold their own.

Have no idea where to get pads but stockers are very high quality and won't need swapped for some time. Very comfy too.
post #1384 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDelicious View Post

I had the D600 for a few days, bought them used and burned them in for about 30ish hours and thought they sounded terrible. Horribly bloated and muddy, they made everything sound plasticky and dull. There's little to no extension in the highs so there's no chance of them having a "fun" signature either. You could say there was veil on the sound but it's more like everything was covered with a thick layer of syrup.

Which is an absolute shame because the headphones themselves are very well made and are extremely comfortable to wear. They might be great solely for movies and games and such but I couldn't listen to any kind of music with them at all.

Fun headphones don't have to have lots of extension in the highs. The bass is what made them fun for me.
post #1385 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

Fun headphones don't have to have lots of extension in the highs. The bass is what made them fun for me.
Our definitions differ then. I like an energetic and lively top end with my bass.
post #1386 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDelicious View Post


Our definitions differ then. I like an energetic and lively top end with my bass.

Ahh my mistake I thought you were saying it as fact and not as your view of a fun headphone.

post #1387 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

Are you aware that EDM stands for Electronic Dance Music?  Given your answer, I wasn't sure you were just being more specific about your tastes or if you didn't know what EDM meant biggrin.gif

Oh, I was just being more specific, as trance is sort of a sub genre of all EDM/techno
post #1388 of 1582
I've had these for a week now and here are the things I like and dislike about them:

NOTE: used with iPhone 4S with lossless and 320kbps files, and with a Musical Fidelity M1HPAP+M1DAC combo:
Also note that I had the AH-D340's as well.

Like:
- Very comfortable, although they take time to adjust to their size, they feel quite bulky at first.
- Really nice cable quality, one of the best I've seen in any headphone.
- Easy to run, get's overly loud even straight out of an iPhone, but they do sound maybe 20% better out of the MF hp+dac combo.
- Relatively good sound isolation and they don't leak too much.
- They have decent sound resolution and refinement for a headphone at 250$, comparable to Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 80 or AKG K550.
- Great bass extension and good highs extension, and a very good amount of detail, definitely more detailed than DT770's and I'd dare to say very close to my T1's. For example, during Eric Clapton - Unplugged version of Layla, during the guitar solo, the finger nails hitting the guitars and the subtle details like that come out very clearly trough D600's, even more so than trough the T1's. However, trough the entire frequency range T1's are still more detailed.
- Tight bass without boomy resonance or too much emphasis on a particular part of the low frequencies, to me they sound flat from about 300 hz down to 30 hz.
- Good sense of clarity without being overly fatiguing or having a bright sound.

Dislike:
- Horribly wrong tonality in the mids - they basically sound sub-par with any vocal music if you care about naturalness and timbre of sound. Sennheiser HD202's which cost 25 dollars can give them a lesson or two on the tonality in the mids, and I'm not even exaggerating. The mids on these are very colored, they seem to put a veil of some sorts over any music I play trough them. Not a veil in the sense of making the music sound muddy, but making it sound plasticky, thin, and sort of like listening trough a cardboard box rather than headphones. It's not a HUGE problem and it doesn't mean headphones are not listenable for everyone, but to me, they definitely fail hard enough in the mids to ruin the entire headphone. Just thinking that Denon tried to sell these at $500 MSRP when they came out makes me giggle, because compared to any other 500 dollar headphones, like the HD650 for example, D600's mids are literally laughable. On mids alone, they sound like a 50-100 dollar headphones.
- On top of bad tonality in the mids, they also sound thin and recessed.
- Soundstage is very flat. It's wide for a closed back headphone, but it's flat, there's no depth to it in front and back direction, it's like a thin wall of sound that goes trough my head, and the worst thing is, the wall seems to be BEHIND my ears. I don't know how they managed to do that, but it feels like the sound is coming from sides and from behind (no, I'm not wearing them backwards... :P). There's also no strong sense of central image, because in order for that to happen, the sound has to be projected in front of you, and sadly that just doesn't happen here.
- They don't have a lot of bass. I know these are supposed to be bassy headphones, but they're really not. T1's have more bass presence and sound more sonorous, or deep and bassy if you will. So do the HD650's, DT990's and DT770, while at the same time having much fuller mids. They can punch hard and the bass can go deep, but to me there's nothing about the D600's that would make me brand them as basshead headphones, not even close. Not that that's a bad thing if the rest of the headphone is as neutral, and to be fair, it does say on the box that they're tuned for a flat EQ, but in this case it's not, so this is a bad point, because the only thing that might have saved the headphone overall by making it bass heavy and fun in that sense, failed to do so.

- Now we come to the biggest flaw of all: the lack of coherence and direction in the sound signature. I just can't put a finger on it, but these headphones sound wrong to me. I can keep describing how crisp and detailed the highs are, how deep the bass can extend and how flat it sounds, or how bad the mids are, but the fact is, these headphones just sound...wrong. It's the typical example of where majority of each aspects is good, but the end result after combining all aspects is not at all good. The worst part is the fact that to me, from memory of the D340's, sound pretty much identical. I had exactly the same impressions of the D340's, I thought they had the same positive and negative points about them, plus the fact that D340's had a horrible fit and were uncomfortable, and I guess they had a more closed in soundstage. In terms of resolution, they might be some 10% lower, but regardless, D600's are not a big enough step up, at least from my memory, take it with a big grain of salt.

- The Denon application for mobile devices is not free, well, it's free to download, but all features are locked. I want it to be free, I payed for the headphones, I won't pay more for an app that's advertised as free on the box of a product that I've bought.

To conclude, these headphones to me sound like they can't decide between being V-shaped, being bass light, being neutral, having a big soundstage, or a small cozy sound, they don't sound warm and full, but they don't sound bright and thin either...BUT, they're not neutral and flat. This all sounds like rubbish, I can't explain it with words anyway. It's sort of like that saying: the jack of all trades, but master none. Except that they're not a jack of all trades...The point is, they don't have that nice "hi-fi" sound that you'd expect from headphones at this price, but then again they're not neutral and flat either. To best describe it, they're colored, but in a bad way. They sound thin and boring, lacking dynamics and the sense of grand scale in the sound that you'd expect from a headphone at this price and from a headphone that's as big as this, and with 50 mm drivers.

I give them 6/10 on overall sound impression and listening experience considering their price of under 250 dollars. For 500 dollars MSRP...just no...

Another thing I forgot to mention is that there's a general sense of....lack of seriousness about these headphones. They seem somewhat kitschy and chincy to me, the headphones as well as the entire packaging. The red box, the brown fake silk lining inside the box..carrying pouch with blue details on it...I mean, come on, decide on a freaking color theme and stick with it. I'm not saying they feel cheap or anything...they just seem flashy and like they've been designed for 15 year olds, to put it nicely, I'd be ashamed to put these on my head and be seen in public. They don't give me that vibe of a high precision, high quality tool or a device that Beyerdynamics or Sennheisers give for example. I much preferred the styling of the old Dx000 series.
Edited by derbigpr - 3/3/14 at 2:05pm
post #1389 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

I've had these for a week now and here are the things I like and dislike about them:

NOTE: used with iPhone 4S with lossless and 320kbps files, and with a Musical Fidelity M1HPAP+M1DAC combo:
Also note that I had the AH-D340's as well.

Like:
- Very comfortable, although they take time to adjust to their size, they feel quite bulky at first.
- Really nice cable quality, one of the best I've seen in any headphone.
- Easy to run, get's overly loud even straight out of an iPhone, but they do sound maybe 20% better out of the MF hp+dac combo.
- Relatively good sound isolation and they don't leak too much.
- They have decent sound resolution and refinement for a headphone at 250$, comparable to Beyerdynamic DT770Pro 80 or AKG K550.
- Great bass extension and good highs extension, and a very good amount of detail, definitely more detailed than DT770's and I'd dare to say very close to my T1's. For example, during Eric Clapton - Unplugged version of Layla, during the guitar solo, the finger nails hitting the guitars and the subtle details like that come out very clearly trough D600's, even more so than trough the T1's. However, trough the entire frequency range T1's are still more detailed.
- Tight bass without boomy resonance or too much emphasis on a particular part of the low frequencies, to me they sound flat from about 300 hz down to 30 hz.
- Good sense of clarity without being overly fatiguing or having a bright sound.

Dislike:
- Horribly wrong tonality in the mids - they basically sound sub-par with any vocal music if you care about naturalness and timbre of sound. Sennheiser HD202's which cost 25 dollars can give them a lesson or two on the tonality in the mids, and I'm not even exaggerating. The mids on these are very colored, they seem to put a veil of some sorts over any music I play trough them. Not a veil in the sense of making the music sound muddy, but making it sound plasticky, thin, and sort of like listening trough a cardboard box rather than headphones. It's not a HUGE problem and it doesn't mean headphones are not listenable for everyone, but to me, they definitely fail hard enough in the mids to ruin the entire headphone. Just thinking that Denon tried to sell these at $500 MSRP when they came out makes me giggle, because compared to any other 500 dollar headphones, like the HD650 for example, D600's mids are literally laughable. On mids alone, they sound like a 50-100 dollar headphones.
- On top of bad tonality in the mids, they also sound thin and recessed.
- Soundstage is very flat. It's wide for a closed back headphone, but it's flat, there's no depth to it in front and back direction, it's like a thin wall of sound that goes trough my head, and the worst thing is, the wall seems to be BEHIND my ears. I don't know how they managed to do that, but it feels like the sound is coming from sides and from behind (no, I'm not wearing them backwards... :P). There's also no strong sense of central image, because in order for that to happen, the sound has to be projected in front of you, and sadly that just doesn't happen here.
- They don't have a lot of bass. I know these are supposed to be bassy headphones, but they're really not. T1's have more bass presence and sound more sonorous, or deep and bassy if you will. So do the HD650's, DT990's and DT770, while at the same time having much fuller mids. They can punch hard and the bass can go deep, but to me there's nothing about the D600's that would make me brand them as basshead headphones, not even close. Not that that's a bad thing if the rest of the headphone is as neutral, and to be fair, it does say on the box that they're tuned for a flat EQ, but in this case it's not, so this is a bad point, because the only thing that might have saved the headphone overall by making it bass heavy and fun in that sense, failed to do so.

- Now we come to the biggest flaw of all: the lack of coherence and direction in the sound signature. I just can't put a finger on it, but these headphones sound wrong to me. I can keep describing how crisp and detailed the highs are, how deep the bass can extend and how flat it sounds, or how bad the mids are, but the fact is, these headphones just sound...wrong. It's the typical example of where majority of each aspects is good, but the end result after combining all aspects is not at all good. The worst part is the fact that to me, from memory of the D340's, sound pretty much identical. I had exactly the same impressions of the D340's, I thought they had the same positive and negative points about them, plus the fact that D340's had a horrible fit and were uncomfortable, and I guess they had a more closed in soundstage. In terms of resolution, they might be some 10% lower, but regardless, D600's are not a big enough step up, at least from my memory, take it with a big grain of salt.

- The Denon application for mobile devices is not free, well, it's free to download, but all features are locked. I want it to be free, I payed for the headphones, I won't pay more for an app that's advertised as free on the box of a product that I've bought.

To conclude, these headphones to me sound like they can't decide between being V-shaped, being bass light, being neutral, having a big soundstage, or a small cozy sound, they don't sound warm and full, but they don't sound bright and thin either...BUT, they're not neutral and flat. This all sounds like rubbish, I can't explain it with words anyway. It's sort of like that saying: the jack of all trades, but master none. Except that they're not a jack of all trades...The point is, they don't have that nice "hi-fi" sound that you'd expect from headphones at this price, but then again they're not neutral and flat either. To best describe it, they're colored, but in a bad way. They sound thin and boring, lacking dynamics and the sense of grand scale in the sound that you'd expect from a headphone at this price and from a headphone that's as big as this, and with 50 mm drivers.

I give them 6/10 on overall sound impression and listening experience considering their price of under 250 dollars. For 500 dollars MSRP...just no...

Another thing I forgot to mention is that there's a general sense of....lack of seriousness about these headphones. They seem somewhat kitschy and chincy to me, the headphones as well as the entire packaging. The red box, the brown fake silk lining inside the box..carrying pouch with blue details on it...I mean, come on, decide on a freaking color theme and stick with it. I'm not saying they feel cheap or anything...they just seem flashy and like they've been designed for 15 year olds, to put it nicely, I'd be ashamed to put these on my head and be seen in public. They don't give me that vibe of a high precision, high quality tool or a device that Beyerdynamics or Sennheisers give for example. I much preferred the styling of the old Dx000 series.
Actually $550 was their original price. IMO they are more of a basshead headphone than a neutral one. I got mine for 300 and i think they're are alot of fun with EDM music and movie watching.
Edited by Byrnie - 3/3/14 at 4:25pm
post #1390 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

Actually $550 was their original price. IMO they are more of a basshead headphone than a neutral one. I got mine for 300 and i think they're are alot of fun with EDM music and movie watching.


Well, they're definitely not neutral, but I would definitely not call them basshead headphones. I mean, if I get used to listening to HD650's or T1's, and then put on the D600's, they feel bass light and thin until I adjust to them.
post #1391 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


Well, they're definitely not neutral, but I would definitely not call them basshead headphones. I mean, if I get used to listening to HD650's or T1's, and then put on the D600's, they feel bass light and thin until I adjust to them.

Are you being serious or joking around?  The HD650's have a fraction of the bass quantity of the D600's.  You can even look at the frequency graph to confirm that.  I'm not sure about the T1's though as I have never heard them before.  I also didn't say the D600's are basshead headphones but that they are closer to one than a neutral headphone.  You're the first person that I've ever heard say that the D600's have more bass than the HD650s.  Now if you compared the D600 to the V-Moda M100's then yes I would say the D600's would be bass light in that comparison.

post #1392 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

Are you being serious or joking around?  The HD650's have a fraction of the bass quantity of the D600's.  You can even look at the frequency graph to confirm that.  I'm not sure about the T1's though as I have never heard them before.  I also didn't say the D600's are basshead headphones but that they are closer to one than a neutral headphone.  You're the first person that I've ever heard say that the D600's have more bass than the HD650s.  Now if you compared the D600 to the V-Moda M100's then yes I would say the D600's would be bass light in that comparison.

Same experience here. I love them and think the bass is as deep as they can be. The D600 I bought is clearly a basshead phone. I even think they are as Bassy as the M100.
post #1393 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post


Same experience here. I love them and think the bass is as deep as they can be. The D600 I bought is clearly a basshead phone. I even think they are as Bassy as the M100

Well to clarify I thought the M100 has more sub-bass but I was listening to the M-100 at a Brookstone store so maybe I didn't long enough.  

post #1394 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

Are you being serious or joking around?  The HD650's have a fraction of the bass quantity of the D600's.  You can even look at the frequency graph to confirm that.  I'm not sure about the T1's though as I have never heard them before.  I also didn't say the D600's are basshead headphones but that they are closer to one than a neutral headphone.  You're the first person that I've ever heard say that the D600's have more bass than the HD650s.  Now if you compared the D600 to the V-Moda M100's then yes I would say the D600's would be bass light in that comparison.


I'm not joking. Maybe we don't think of bass the same, but to me the amount of bass is not just judged by how hard it punches or how deep it can extend, to me bass is everything under about 250-300 hz, and it also extends into lower mids, which is also a region for many instruments and vocals, especially male vocals...and this is why the headphone sounds very thin and lacks body. It can punch hard when needed, about the same as T1's, with T1's having a MUCH more textured bass and just overall more refined and detailed, but in general, when listening to music at regular volumes, D600's sound thin in comparison to T1's, and especially to HD650's, which have a noticeably more present bass and a deeper more sonorous feel to the sound. D600's simply sound like there's something missing in their sound, texture, fullness, body, whatever you want to call it.

The biggest issue are still the mids, which just break the headphone for me and I just can't listen to them, since they sound totally wrong, thin, hollow, tonally incorrect, just very colored, as I said, on mids alone, they can't compare to most ~100 dollar headphones that I've heard, and I don't think I've heard 250 dollar closed headphones with worse mids, even when including noise canceling headphones.
post #1395 of 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


I'm not joking. Maybe we don't think of bass the same, but to me the amount of bass is not just judged by how hard it punches or how deep it can extend, to me bass is everything under about 250-300 hz, and it also extends into lower mids, which is also a region for many instruments and vocals, especially male vocals...and this is why the headphone sounds very thin and lacks body. It can punch hard when needed, about the same as T1's, with T1's having a MUCH more textured bass and just overall more refined and detailed, but in general, when listening to music at regular volumes, D600's sound thin in comparison to T1's, and especially to HD650's, which have a noticeably more present bass and a deeper more sonorous feel to the sound. D600's simply sound like there's something missing in their sound, texture, fullness, body, whatever you want to call it.

The biggest issue are still the mids, which just break the headphone for me and I just can't listen to them, since they sound totally wrong, thin, hollow, tonally incorrect, just very colored, as I said, on mids alone, they can't compare to most ~100 dollar headphones that I've heard, and I don't think I've heard 250 dollar closed headphones with worse mids, even when including noise canceling headphones.

I never argued about the mids just the bass, I mean you can tell alot about the D600's mids just from the frequency graph.  how deep the bass could extend would not be apart of the "amount of bass" it would be the "quality of the bass".  "Amount of bass" refers to the quantity of bass.  I'll just agree to disagree at this point.  The biggest problem of the D600s for me was the clarity but I still love these headphones for EDM and movies.

 

*forgot a word hah*

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