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New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Impressions Thread - Page 84

post #1246 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

Hey all, 

 

I currently have another thread open, but I figured I'd post in this thread as well since I have some specific questions about the d600. I'm in the process of looking for new headphones and am currently leaning towards the beyer dt880 250 ohm. I've read some negative, but mostly positive reviews for the d600 in comparison to both the d2000 and the d5000. Some people seem to hate them and others seem to like them more than even the d5000. I am wondering how they compare to the dt880 (couldn't find anything). I listen to a little bit of everything with most of my music probably being alternative. I prefer tight/punchy bass vs bloated or a muddy sound. Overall I am looking for a very *clear* sound with a lot of detail/depth. I don't want to rehash too much from my other thread so I'll just leave it at that.

 

I can pick up the dt880 for $250 (270 w/ tax) vs the d600 for 340.

 

Thanks

The D600 bass would be considered bloated for you I would guess (it is very present), I would get the DT880 (or DT770 if you need closed). Personally, I like the K550 better than my (gone) D600, especially the bass.

post #1247 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lan647 View Post

 

The d600 is such a polarizing headphone. In some ways (clarity, speed, detail, openness, comfort, isolation) they are great closed-back cans and perform on par with the price. Unfortunately, listening to my Sennheiser Momentum reveals the D600 as being a bit boomy in the bass, a bit recessed/suffocated, thin and grainy in the midrange and a bit uneven in the treble. 

This didn't bother me before but with Momentum in the house, my positive impression of the D600 has gone a bit cold :( 

Bah, it's so hard to make any kind of firm decision with regards to headphones. I am not looking specifically for closed-back. I am open to anything at this point, I am just trying to get the most for my money. I also don't need a portable headphone. With those considerations, what would be your recommendation (especially vs a dt880 250)? Just trying to get as many opinions as possible right now.

 

I do not currently own an amp. In my other thread I was recommended the fiio e10 as a cheaper solution. I was also looking at the schiit magni/modi, but that is obviously significantly more expensive. My total budget is $420 (can be stretched to $450 if there is a big enough difference in SQ).

 

The d600 interested  me because of the comparisons to the d2000/5000 which I would have probably picked up if they were still made. Everyone seems to have loved those headphones.


Edited by Kinru - 1/2/13 at 9:28am
post #1248 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

Bah, it's so hard to make any kind of firm decision with regards to headphones. I am not looking specifically for closed-back. I am open to anything at this point, I am just trying to get the most for my money. I also don't need a portable headphone. With those considerations, what would be your recommendation (especially vs a dt880 250)? Just trying to get as many opinions as possible right now.

 

I do not currently own an amp. In my other thread I was recommended the fiio e10 as a cheaper solution. I was also looking at the schiit magni/modi, but that is obviously significantly more expensive. My total budget is $420 (can be stretched to $450 if there is a big enough difference in SQ).

 

The d600 interested  me because of the comparisons to the d2000/5000 which I would have probably picked up if they were still made. Everyone seems to have loved those headphones.

 

I have not heard the Dt880 but if you want the best bang for the buck, I wholeheartedly advice you not to go with the D600. Mine are up for sale because the significantly cheaper Momentums pretty much kick their ***

The d600 doesn't sound like the previous Denon line at all, I don't think ANYONE will argue on this.

post #1249 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

Hey all, 

 

I currently have another thread open, but I figured I'd post in this thread as well since I have some specific questions about the d600. I'm in the process of looking for new headphones and am currently leaning towards the beyer dt880 250 ohm. I've read some negative, but mostly positive reviews for the d600 in comparison to both the d2000 and the d5000. Some people seem to hate them and others seem to like them more than even the d5000. I am wondering how they compare to the dt880 (couldn't find anything). I listen to a little bit of everything with most of my music probably being alternative. I prefer tight/punchy bass vs bloated or a muddy sound. Overall I am looking for a very *clear* sound with a lot of detail/depth. I don't want to rehash too much from my other thread so I'll just leave it at that.

 

I can pick up the dt880 for $250 (270 w/ tax) vs the d600 for 340.

 

Thanks

I have built up a lot of experience with both these headphones, including the original Dx000 line of denons. But before I can give a proper suggestion, it would help to know of any other headphones that you've heard and what your impressions were of them, as the Beyers and Denons are really quite different from each other. That being said, I'll try outlining some of the differences between them that I found, and perhaps it will help you make up your own mind.

 

The DT880 are very clear, instrument separation/imaging is the best of the 3. The soundstage is decently wide (as wide as it has to be to give it's level of detail/separation, but not any more, and not as much as the D5000's). And while the DT880  has decent bass, it isn't particularly 'punchy' nor does it extend very far and it isn't compensated for a 'subwoofer-in-the-room' effect (important if this is what you consider 'neutral'). The highs aren't bad but they are slightly hyped, and the mids are just a tad bit recessed, but overall the sound is very balanced. I originally got this headphone for studio purposes, and while I like it and would say it's good for that, I wouldn't really recommend it for anyone looking for a 'fun' listening phone, unless you know that is really the type of listening experience you want.

 

The D5000 on the other hand, has rather neutral bass (taking into account 'subwoofer-in-the-room' compensation) if a tad bit hyped, and the the extension is great (it clearly goes all the way down to 20hz, and can rumble down to 1-5hz), but it is quite muddy. The highs aren't bad, slightly warmer than the DT880's but still on the bright side, and the mids are recessed on these a good bit more than than the 880's. The soundstage on the D5000's is the largest of the 3, but the imaging isn't as clear as the 880s. I would also say that the D5000 is right on the edge of what I would call 'balanced' or somewhat 'neutral', even though they are colored as described above.

 

Then there's the D600's... these phones get a lot of flak, but I actually think they're quite good if you know what they excel at and adjust your expectations accordingly. Out of all the headphones I've ever heard, these have the best, clearest, most neutral compensated (i.e. like a studio subwoofer setup) bass, and are the 'punchiest' of the three. The extension is pretty much the same as the D5000's, but the roll-off begins at around 30hz as opposed to 20-25hz in the D5000's, though the roll-off is a lot more gradual than the D5000s', and it can still rumble down to 1-5hz just as well at normal listening volumes. The original Dx0000 line may appear to have more sub-bass at first, but that's just due to bloat/muddiness and harmonic distortion, whereas the D600's bass response is drastically cleaner/clearer with less distortion, hence I prefer them for that. BUT, and here's the kicker (the reason this phone is so 'controversial)'... the mids and treble are truly not very good. They were so disappointing when I first heard them, that I immediately began preparing to return them; luckily, I decided to give them another shot and burn them in for a good while, and in doing so, not only did the bass improve with that, but the highs/mids did too. Not nearly enough to actually be considered 'good' mind you (especially compared to the other two cans), but definitely tolerable. The problem is that the mids were noticeably more recessed than even the D5000's, the highs feel artificially boosted but without any 'air'/'sparkle' to them, and the soundstage is also noticeably smaller to boot. I do like these headphones now though, and use them to evaluate bass when doing studio work (only for mixing though, not mastering), as they really do have the best bass I have heard. Then again, I'm still waiting for my Lawton Audio mod-kit for my D5000's, so that opinion may change soon.


Edited by oblique63 - 1/2/13 at 3:54pm
post #1250 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

I have built up a lot of experience with both these headphones, including the original Dx000 line of denons. But before I can give a proper suggestion, it would help to know of any other headphones that you've heard and what your impressions were of them, as the Beyers and Denons are really quite different from each other. That being said, I'll try outlining some of the differences between them that I found, and perhaps it will help you make up your own mind.

 

The DT880 are very clear, instrument separation/imaging is the best of the 3. The soundstage is decently wide (as wide as it has to be to give it's level of detail/separation, but not any more), but not as much as the D5000's. And while the DT880  has decent bass, it isn't particularly 'punchy' nor does it extend very far and it isn't compensated for a 'subwoofer-in-the-room' effect (important if this is what you consider 'neutral'). The highs aren't bad but they are slightly hyped, and the mids are just a tad bit recessed, but overall the sound is very balanced. I originally got this headphone for studio purposes, and while I like it and would say it's good for that, I wouldn't really recommend it for anyone looking for a 'fun' listening phone, unless you know that is really the type of listening experience you want.

 

The D5000 on the other hand, has rather neutral bass (taking into account 'subwoofer-in-the-room' compensation) if a tad bit hyped, and the the extension is great (it clearly goes all the way down to 20hz, and can rumble down to 1-5hz), but it is a bit muddy bass. The highs aren't bad, slightly warmer than the DT880's but still on the bright side, and the mids are recessed on these a good bit more than than the 880's. The soundstage on the D5000's is the largest of the 3, but the imaging isn't as clear as the 880s. I would also say that the D5000 is right on the edge of what I would call 'balanced' or somewhat 'neutral', even though they are colored as described above.

 

Then there's the D600's... these phones get a lot of flak, but I actually think they're quite good if you know what they excel at and adjust your expectations accordingly. Out of all the headphones I've ever heard, these have the best, clearest, most neutral compensated (i.e. like a studio subwoofer setup) bass, and are the 'punchiest' of the three. The extension is pretty much the same as the D5000's, but the roll-off begins at around 30hz, as opposed to 20-25hz in the D5000's, but the roll off is a lot more gradual than the D5000's, and it can still rumble down to 1-5hz as well (at normal listening volumes). The original Dx0000 line may appear to have more sub-bass at first, but that's just due to bloat/muddiness and harmonic distortion, whereas the D600's bass response is drastically cleaner/clearer with less distortion, hence I prefer them for that. BUT, and here's the kicker (the reason this phone is so 'controversial)'... the mids and treble are truly not very good. They were so disappointing when I first heard them, that I immediately began preparing to return them; luckily, I decided to give them another shot and burn them in for a good while, and in doing so, not only did the bass improve with that, but the highs/mids did too. Not nearly enough to actually be considered 'good' mind you (especially compared to the other two cans), but definitely tolerable. So I do like these headphones now, and use them to evaluate bass when doing studio work (only for mixing though, not mastering), as they really do have the best bass I have heard.

Thank you! To answer your first question, I am extremely new to all of this stuff and have only ever had HD555s w/ the foam mod and no amp. I have spent the last week reading up on pretty much everything and doing tons of research. I don't have a place nearby that I can actually go and try these headphones out at so I have to make my decisions based on what I read.

 

That being said, I am pretty sure of what I prefer and what I'm looking for. Here's a little more information on my tastes: I am definitely not a basshead and do not want/need booming bass/sub-bass. However, I do enjoy a much tighter and controlled bass as long as it is clear and not muddled. I would like my mids very clear, very transparent sounding. For treble, I actually tend to like it a little brighter as long as it isn't too sharp or fatiguing. My music has a little bit of everything with the most emphasis on alternative. I tend to listen to my music for several hours at once so I need a headphone that won't wear me out.

 

From what you have described (and since the d5000 are no longer available for a decent price) it seems that the DT880 would be the best choice for my tastes. Like I said before, the d600 appealed to me because of some reviews that I have read, but it now sounds like they aren't quite what I'm looking for (I also liked the fact that they have a detachable cable/are supposedly extremely comfortable for long periods of time).

 

At least this is easier on my wallet :P $340 (d600) vs $250 (dt880) also allows me to pick up the schiit magni/modi with the dt880 if I go that way.

post #1251 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

Thank you! To answer your first question, I am extremely new to all of this stuff and have only ever had HD555s w/ the foam mod and no amp. I have spent the last week reading up on pretty much everything and doing tons of research. I don't have a place nearby that I can actually go and try these headphones out at so I have to make my decisions based on what I read.

 

That being said, I am pretty sure of what I prefer and what I'm looking for. Here's a little more information on my tastes: I am definitely not a basshead and do not want/need booming bass/sub-bass. However, I do enjoy a much tighter and controlled bass as long as it is clear and not muddled. I would like my mids very clear, very transparent sounding. For treble, I actually tend to like it a little brighter as long as it isn't too sharp or fatiguing. My music has a little bit of everything with the most emphasis on alternative. I tend to listen to my music for several hours at once so I need a headphone that won't wear me out.

 

From what you have described (and since the d5000 are no longer available for a decent price) it seems that the DT880 would be the best choice for my tastes. Like I said before, the d600 appealed to me because of some reviews that I have read, but it now sounds like they aren't quite what I'm looking for (I also liked the fact that they have a detachable cable/are supposedly extremely comfortable for long periods of time).

 

At least this is easier on my wallet :P $340 (d600) vs $250 (dt880) also allows me to pick up the schiit magni/modi with the dt880 if I go that way.

Yep, the DT880 seems perfect for you. When I originally bought them, what you described was also essentially what I was looking for, and was really impressed when I first heard them, so definitely go for it. The bass on them is certainly there, so you really won't be missing much with them, and the highs are rather 'airy' so not sharp/fatiguing at all (for me anyway). Overall they are is quite transparent, so you should be pleased with them.

post #1252 of 1552
The Denon C300 are super bassheavy and pretty big in size but they offers clear mids, highs and realy wide soundstage. IMO Denon D600 sound great (very detailed and good bass) out of many DAPs like Clip+ and sound even better with AMPs help. It sound better than M80, P5, Momentum and many other closed portable headphones.
Edited by ZARIM - 1/2/13 at 2:35pm
post #1253 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

Hey all, 

 

I currently have another thread open, but I figured I'd post in this thread as well since I have some specific questions about the d600. I'm in the process of looking for new headphones and am currently leaning towards the beyer dt880 250 ohm. I've read some negative, but mostly positive reviews for the d600 in comparison to both the d2000 and the d5000. Some people seem to hate them and others seem to like them more than even the d5000. I am wondering how they compare to the dt880 (couldn't find anything). I listen to a little bit of everything with most of my music probably being alternative. I prefer tight/punchy bass vs bloated or a muddy sound. Overall I am looking for a very *clear* sound with a lot of detail/depth. I don't want to rehash too much from my other thread so I'll just leave it at that.

 

I can pick up the dt880 for $250 (270 w/ tax) vs the d600 for 340.

 

Thanks

 

Without trying to sound rude, why have you limited to those headphones? If you don't want a muddy sound, I'd avoid the D600. Do you have an amplifier? 

post #1254 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

Without trying to sound rude, why have you limited to those headphones? If you don't want a muddy sound, I'd avoid the D600. Do you have an amplifier? 

No offense taken at all. I came upon the dt880 after a lot of research and recommendations in the other thread that I started (asking for opinions). I'm still open to other options, but I haven't come across anything that seems to be better than the dt880 for the price. I was originally looking at the d600 because of the d2000 which had so many recommandations across the board. I've also been recommended the HE-400, but it is not as comfortable/light as other headphones and comfort is a major factor for me as I'll be wearing these for 5+ hours a day most likely. They are also $400 which leaves extremely little room for a dac/amp.

 

I plan on either picking up the schiit magni/modi combo or the fiio e10 (depending on how much $ I have left over after the headphones). I have a hard budget of $450 to spend.


Edited by Kinru - 1/2/13 at 2:51pm
post #1255 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

No offense taken at all. I came upon the dt880 after a lot of research and recommendations in the other thread that I started (asking for opinions). I'm still open to other options, but I haven't come across anything that seems to be better than the dt880 for the price. I was originally looking at the d600 because of the d2000 which had so many recommandations across the board. I've also been recommended the HE-400, but it is not as comfortable/light as other headphones and comfort is a major factor for me as I'll be wearing these for 5+ hours a day most likely. They are also $400 which leaves extremely little room for a dac/amp.

 

I plan on either picking up the schiit magni/modi combo or the fiio e10 (depending on how much $ I have left over after the headphones). I have a hard budget of $450 to spend.

 

 

*****MAD DOGS*****

post #1256 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinru View Post

No offense taken at all. I came upon the dt880 after a lot of research and recommendations in the other thread that I started (asking for opinions). I'm still open to other options, but I haven't come across anything that seems to be better than the dt880 for the price. I was originally looking at the d600 because of the d2000 which had so many recommandations across the board. I've also been recommended the HE-400, but it is not as comfortable/light as other headphones and comfort is a major factor for me as I'll be wearing these for 5+ hours a day most likely. They are also $400 which leaves extremely little room for a dac/amp.

 

I plan on either picking up the schiit magni/modi combo or the fiio e10 (depending on how much $ I have left over after the headphones). I have a hard budget of $450 to spend.

 

The $450 is a total budget? If you could bump it up to $500, I could easily say Mad Dogs + the Schiit pair. Unfortunately, the D600 left a lot of us disappointed. I was hoping for a successor to the D2000 and D7000, but the new headphones are a clear step back. The D200 don't have the speed or warmth of the older Denons. 

 

You may also want to look into the Q701. You can get them for around $200, which helps with the amp budget. The only concern I have about getting a Fiio E10, is that for example, if you're buying a HE-400, they will show that the fiio isn't such a good DAC. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

*****MAD DOGS*****

 

Dude! You're stealing my thunder! I was going to build up to that! 

post #1257 of 1552

Aren't the Mad Dogs supposedly a bit dark? I've heard them being compared to the HD 650's in terms of darkness, which I wouldn't really suggest for someone looking for a bright-ish headphone... I would definitely second the idea of checking out the Q701's though; I'm actually about to pick up a pair for myself soon and they do seem to meet all the criteria as well as the DT880's.

post #1258 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

The $450 is a total budget? If you could bump it up to $500, I could easily say Mad Dogs + the Schiit pair. Unfortunately, the D600 left a lot of us disappointed. I was hoping for a successor to the D2000 and D7000, but the new headphones are a clear step back. The D200 don't have the speed or warmth of the older Denons. 

 

You may also want to look into the Q701. You can get them for around $200, which helps with the amp budget. The only concern I have about getting a Fiio E10, is that for example, if you're buying a HE-400, they will show that the fiio isn't such a good DAC. 

 

 

 

Dude! You're stealing my thunder! I was going to build up to that! 

 

 

Man you was taking way to long.  You have come in with an entrance like that..biggrin.gif

post #1259 of 1552

My only problem with mad dogs are that there is no warranty and while I treat everything I own with extreme care, I do like to have a safety net (especially if I'm dropping $250+ on these).

post #1260 of 1552

Warranty for what - if they stop working?  If that's the case Dan will fix them for you.  He's a really good person.  He'll make sure everything is right for you.

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