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New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Impressions Thread - Page 8

post #106 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

I might have to get a pair for a good closed can. Something I am missing right now.


I haven't heard the new Denons yet, but I consider the Ultrasone Signature Pro to be an excellent high end closed can.

post #107 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post


I am really surprised by all the comments describing the "Music Maniac" line as having a V-curve and heavy bass considering how Denon has marketed these so heavily as having "flat EQ".  I am relieved I didn't jump on the Amazon discount yesterday (I was kicking myself for not buying at the discount before reading some of these reviews, so thank you to the brave early adopters).  On the high end, are they really as bright as Ultrasone 900's?  If so, I will be looking elsewhere and may be back to the PSB M4U2 or rejoining the cult-like M-100 appreciation thread.  If this is how Denon presents their flat EQ line, I can't imagine how their Urban Ravers will sound with their self-described  "brutile" bass.  I like deep, impactful bass, but I am wondering if this is, dare I say, bass overkill?

 

P.S. the AH-C300 (in-ear Urban Raver) is now in stock at several sites including from Denon direct.

 

Can anyone compare the D600 or D7100 to the ATH-PRO700MK2?  I just ordered those at Buydig for $104 refurb and keeping my fingers crossed that I like them.  I would feel better about a $100 mistake than a $500 mistake if I don't like them.


I'm hoping the AH-C300's fare better in early impressions. I'm actually very curious about those IEM's.

post #108 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

So let me get this straight....the D600 is a higher end sounding XB700 which has good treble extension and bass that can sound boomy although not as muddy as the XB700 and you're also saying the signature is V shaped? OK I know I put up a gag post a few pages back but all trolling aside I'm not liking that description to much.

 

Uh, yeah, that's pretty close to what I mean. What don't you understand again? Last time I checked, V shaped signature meant prominent bass and treble with a recessed midrange. Exactly what the D600 is. The XB700 isn't V shaped, as the treble isn't quite up to where it needs to be in order to classify as that. I wouldn't call the XB700's bass muddy in comparison. I find the D600 muddy in the fact alone it simply has too much bass, but again, I'm not the bass craving type I used to be -- but I also don't want prominent highs. I'm the type of person that favors the midrange, so perhaps it was a mistake on my part in the first place to buy these. Yet, like nearly everyone else, I suspected these would be somewhat flat. I should have suspected Denon wouldn't get rid of their signature formula... (also, not trying to be mean)

 

This is what I think. They claim it's now "tuned after a flat EQ" because they did indeed bump the midrange. And its very noticeable on songs that start out with vocals soon followed by or accompanied with lower frequencies. The problem is, the instant that bass and treble kick in, the midrange gets smothered, yet still sounds pretty good, and would sound even better on it's own. Nonetheless, the midrange is, without a doubt, the least prominent sound of the spectrum. V shape by default. Pull down the bass and treble, and yes, it would be pretty flat. I'm also getting the impression that these sound as if "everything" has been EQ'ed up, so it all just sounds loud. "Uh oh, we have a V shaped sound, quick, bump up the midrange so it seems like things are evened out!" When in fact, doing that with an already plentiful amount of bass and treble creates an odd clashing of frequencies.

 

As far as burn in, I assume it's not going to create a "night and day" difference like everyone seems to be speculating . Perhaps a smoothening of the rough edges here and there, but it'll be the same headphone at heart IMO. Haven't had a single headphone to date that changed/improved that much with burn in, so I'm not expecting much. But that's just my speculation. Guess we'll have to find out in time.


Edited by Katun - 8/2/12 at 11:00pm
post #109 of 1552

can someone compare the 600's to the vmoda m80's and monster miles davis tributes. How sweet is the sound coming from these and is are the mids smooth and are these sibilant free?

post #110 of 1552

Which cable are you using and what are you driving them with? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katun View Post

 

Uh, yeah, that's pretty close to what I mean. What don't you understand again? Last time I checked, V shaped signature meant prominent bass and treble with a recessed midrange. Exactly what the D600 is. The XB700 isn't V shaped, as the treble isn't quite up to where it needs to be in order to classify as that. I wouldn't call the XB700's bass muddy in comparison. I find the D600 muddy in the fact alone it simply has too much bass, but again, I'm not the bass craving type I used to be -- but I also don't want prominent highs. I'm the type of person that favors the midrange, so perhaps it was a mistake on my part in the first place to buy these. Yet, like nearly everyone else, I suspected these would be somewhat flat. I should have suspected Denon wouldn't get rid of their signature formula... (also, not trying to be mean)

 

post #111 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstaken View Post

Which cable are you using and what are you driving them with? 

 

Stock 10ft one. E10, E17, Headstreamer, iAudio 9, P650. All I have at the moment.

post #112 of 1552

its still early days, initial impressions are valid per se, its initial.

it can be abit disappointing with the ""flat eq"" marketing and the initial listen of ":toomuchbass...""

but guys, hang in there, dun throw out the baby yet.

The next phase would be the amp matching, that should be interesting.

Maybe folks can post the gears u are listening thru...

so we can have some bearing.

 

i was ready to hit the BUY BUTTON, becos of the white thread sewings on the pads...:P

 

My BCL has a Lo Mid Hi gain switch at the bottom of the amp

when i listen to my d7000 on Hi gain, the mids moved forward. :P

i would suspect the Vshaped remarks could be improved with more suitable gear matching.

post #113 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytraceme View Post

can someone compare the 600's to the vmoda m80's and monster miles davis tributes. How sweet is the sound coming from these and is are the mids smooth and are these sibilant free?


I can only speak to the M-80 and describe them as having smooth mids and sibilant-free neutral highs- neither bright nor dark.  One of the earlier reviews here cited sibilance on the D600. 

 

Regarding more time for burn-in, discussing the value of burn-in on Head-fi can get as heated as discussing religion and politics.  I believe Tyll has an article on Innerfidelity where his graph showed more subtle changes rather than a dramatic change in a headphone's character and sound signature pre and post burn-in.  My opinion of burn-in is that the more dramatic change occurs in the adaptability of the human ear adjusting to the sound signature of the headphone rather than a dramatic change in the headphone itself.  Either way, I think reviews will be increasingly representative of what many of us will perceive with more listening/burn-in time.

post #114 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katun View Post

 

Uh, yeah, that's pretty close to what I mean. What don't you understand again? Last time I checked, V shaped signature meant prominent bass and treble with a recessed midrange. Exactly what the D600 is. The XB700 isn't V shaped, as the treble isn't quite up to where it needs to be in order to classify as that. I wouldn't call the XB700's bass muddy in comparison. I find the D600 muddy in the fact alone it simply has too much bass, but again, I'm not the bass craving type I used to be -- but I also don't want prominent highs. I'm the type of person that favors the midrange, so perhaps it was a mistake on my part in the first place to buy these. Yet, like nearly everyone else, I suspected these would be somewhat flat. I should have suspected Denon wouldn't get rid of their signature formula... (also, not trying to be mean)

 

XB700 is slightly V-shaped but not TOO bad, especially it's slightly recessed in the lower-midrange and has a very slight highs-emphasis but yea nothing too bad IMO, the vocals did still sound reasonably "weighty" on it for sure and wouldn't call it hollow sounding.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post

Regarding more time for burn-in, discussing the value of burn-in on Head-fi can get as heated as discussing religion and politics.  I believe Tyll has an article on Innerfidelity where his graph showed more subtle changes rather than a dramatic change in a headphone's character and sound signature pre and post burn-in.  My opinion of burn-in is that the more dramatic change occurs in the adaptability of the human ear adjusting to the sound signature of the headphone rather than a dramatic change in the headphone itself.  Either way, I think reviews will be increasingly representative of what many of us will perceive with more listening/burn-in time.

 

Yea I have a bit similar thoughts and it's easy to recreate the "adaptive brain". One simple way of doing it is using your non-favorite headphone for a week and towards the end of the week the flaws on this other headphone won't sound too big anymore but jump back to your favorite after a week and you'll be like, how could I ever enjoy that other headphone...

 

I've been slightly interested in the D600 and possibly the lower model but after hearing these initial impressions I'm starting to get very very suspicious as I don't like a recessed midrange either, highs should never be higher emphasized than the mids in my book, preferable the other way round. Seems like Denon's sound engineers and me just have different taste. I do crave a noticable boost in bass though, currently the optimal quantity for me based on experience testing different headphones and EQing seems to be around 8~9dB or similar amount as Q40 and PRO900 but if these are EVEN bassier than that with a recessed midrange it would be a no-go.

 

As for the claim on "flat EQ" I guess they speak out of subjective hearing point of view but I guess we will find out soon enough with measurements. ;)


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 8/3/12 at 1:57am
post #115 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

I might have to get a pair for a good closed can. Something I am missing right now.

My favorite "closed" can at the moment is the TH900. Some of course classify it as semi-open because of its less than perfect isolation / leakage status.

 

I'm hoping that the D7.1K's design avoids bass contaminated mids, narrow soundstage, and etched/sibilant highs, despite having a close to identically described driver as the D600. It would have to in order to justify the price difference. Of course these are alleged descriptions at the moment, but wouldn't be surprising to me in the end.

post #116 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmswjm View Post

My favorite "closed" can at the moment is the TH900. Some of course classify it as semi-open because of its less than perfect isolation / leakage status.

 

I'm hoping that the D7.1K's design avoids bass contaminated mids, narrow soundstage, and etched/sibilant highs, despite having a close to identically described driver as the D600. It would have to in order to justify the price difference. Of course these are alleged descriptions at the moment, but wouldn't be surprising to me in the end.

 

Would love to hear a TH900 vs D7100 comparision, especially since TH900 is on my top of the list of headphones I'd buy if price didn't matter.

post #117 of 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post


I can only speak to the M-80 and describe them as having smooth mids and sibilant-free neutral highs- neither bright nor dark.  One of the earlier reviews here cited sibilance on the D600. 

Regarding more time for burn-in, discussing the value of burn-in on Head-fi can get as heated as discussing religion and politics.  I believe Tyll has an article on Innerfidelity where his graph showed more subtle changes rather than a dramatic change in a headphone's character and sound signature pre and post burn-in.  My opinion of burn-in is that the more dramatic change occurs in the adaptability of the human ear adjusting to the sound signature of the headphone rather than a dramatic change in the headphone itself.  Either way, I think reviews will be increasingly representative of what many of us will perceive with more listening/burn-in time.
The m80's have better bass and soundstage than the MDT but the MDT has sweeter mids and more detailed highs it has this weight to its signature that i really like. I was really hoping for these to have a sound similar to the MDT but with tighter and punchier bass. The m100 is my last hope biggrin.gif
post #118 of 1552

Today DonnyHifi & I went to Fujiya and we gave a the D7100 and HD700's a listen (along the way, I also got him to listen to the TH-900's). I was very keen on listening to the D7100's to see how they sounded like and, take this with a very large grain of salt since these were demos that probably had less than 2 hrs burn-in, but I was quite disappointed with them. I'm sure with longer burn-in they will improve but if I were to base my purchase on the demo sound, I'd probably wouldn't (and didn't) buy them. Naturally this is just my, and DonnyHifi's, opinion of 1xD7100 hanging off the shelf and our setups were Go-DAP 4.0, CLAS+Rx Mk3, diyMod iPod+Pico Slim.

 

I'm sure the D7100 demos will burn ing longer over time as misc customers try them and I'll re-visit again in a few weeks/months. However on 1st impressions, I'm somewhat disappointed.

 

@Shigzeo, give it a listen in Fujiya since they have the Denons and the Senns there.

 

@Craigster75, as with the M-100s', I'd say have a listen to the D7100s before making your decision.

 

@RPGWiZaRD, I went there with the very intention to see if it would be worth trading my TH900s for the D7100s. Both DonnyHiFi & I left the shop agreeing that I should keep my TH900's. Again, this is of course with a demo D7100 that's not burnt in. Having said that, I'm not going to take the risk of trading in, in hope that the D7100s will improve dramatically. DonnyHifi, on the other hand, left the shop with a pair of SR-009s in his hand ;-).

post #119 of 1552

I am very interested in how the D7100 compare to the TH900.  I dearly like my TH900, and if the D7100 is anything like the TH900 then I would probably buy a pair for use in office.

But if AnakChan is right then I probably need a listen before I jump.

post #120 of 1552
Thread Starter 
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Edited by BRSxIgnition - 8/3/12 at 8:29am
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