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New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Appreciation Thread - Page 94

post #1396 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

I never argued about the mids just the bass, I mean you can tell alot about the D600's mids just from the frequency graph.  how deep the bass could extend would not be apart of the "amount of bass" it would be the "quality of the bass".  "Amount of bass" refers to the quantity of bass.  I'll just agree to disagree at this point.  The biggest problem of the D600s for me was the clarity but I still love these headphones for EDM and movies.

*forgot a word hah*


For movies and games I guess they're kind of ok, but for music, apart from electronic, I just think they have too many flaws to work for me. If they were priced at 150, maybe I could call them a good buy overall, but currently they've very overpriced IMHO, and that's because they come with a bunch of crap that you don't need...the packaging and accessories themselves probably amount to 30% of the price.
post #1397 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


I'm not joking. Maybe we don't think of bass the same, but to me the amount of bass is not just judged by how hard it punches or how deep it can extend, to me bass is everything under about 250-300 hz, and it also extends into lower mids, which is also a region for many instruments and vocals, especially male vocals...and this is why the headphone sounds very thin and lacks body. It can punch hard when needed, about the same as T1's, with T1's having a MUCH more textured bass and just overall more refined and detailed, but in general, when listening to music at regular volumes, D600's sound thin in comparison to T1's, and especially to HD650's, which have a noticeably more present bass and a deeper more sonorous feel to the sound. D600's simply sound like there's something missing in their sound, texture, fullness, body, whatever you want to call it.

The biggest issue are still the mids, which just break the headphone for me and I just can't listen to them, since they sound totally wrong, thin, hollow, tonally incorrect, just very colored, as I said, on mids alone, they can't compare to most ~100 dollar headphones that I've heard, and I don't think I've heard 250 dollar closed headphones with worse mids, even when including noise canceling headphones.

 

It's funny you find them "thin" sounding, I would have said that about the HD650 or T1 actually.  One of the reasons I bought these was due to their ability to pull texture and warm full sound.

 

They keep reminding me of B&W 802D's - definitely not accurate, but a great fun listen.

post #1398 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrnie View Post

I never argued about the mids just the bass, I mean you can tell alot about the D600's mids just from the frequency graph.  how deep the bass could extend would not be apart of the "amount of bass" it would be the "quality of the bass".  "Amount of bass" refers to the quantity of bass.  I'll just agree to disagree at this point.  The biggest problem of the D600s for me was the clarity but I still love these headphones for EDM and movies.

*forgot a word hah*


For movies and games I guess they're kind of ok, but for music, apart from electronic, I just think they have too many flaws to work for me. If they were priced at 150, maybe I could call them a good buy overall, but currently they've very overpriced IMHO, and that's because they come with a bunch of crap that you don't need...the packaging and accessories themselves probably amount to 30% of the price.

 

I think at $150, I'd have a pair just to toss on for movies largely due to comfort and really bloated bass. But, at the going rate of twice that, it's really hard to justify these headphones. There are too many other excellent all around headphones in the sub $300 range. 

post #1399 of 1407

Picked up the D600s, I now have the D600, the C400 and the C300s ^ ^ 

Just got my new Fiio E12 in the mail, paired with my Samsung s3 with flat eq settings. 

The base, well there's no shortage of it, very nice sub-bass rumble, and that's without going near the base boost switch on the Fiio.

I'm surprised how much the mids have picked up under amping, they were definitely a weakness when D600 was plugged directly into my Sansa and the S3, I'm quite happy with the results.

The treble has calmed down a bit too, I was finding it pretty grating, to the point of equalizing it down a peg.

I'm pretty happy with the Fiio / D600 combo.

post #1400 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShooterMacG View Post
 

Picked up the D600s, I now have the D600, the C400 and the C300s ^ ^ 

Just got my new Fiio E12 in the mail, paired with my Samsung s3 with flat eq settings. 

The base, well there's no shortage of it, very nice sub-bass rumble, and that's without going near the base boost switch on the Fiio.

I'm surprised how much the mids have picked up under amping, they were definitely a weakness when D600 was plugged directly into my Sansa and the S3, I'm quite happy with the results.

The treble has calmed down a bit too, I was finding it pretty grating, to the point of equalizing it down a peg.

I'm pretty happy with the Fiio / D600 combo.

Yea i really enjoy mine too!  Congrats!

post #1401 of 1407

Any ideas why headphone.com stopped selling Denon? The AH-D2000 used to be in their top 10 recommendations for years. Do they really dislike the new line so much that they'd stop selling all Denon product? 

 

Maybe it has something to do with them now featuring Fostex TH-600 and TH-900. I know they designed the old Denons, but they are way pricier. 

 

It is too bad Denon didn't continue selling at least the D1001 and D2000. Most other companies continue to keep best sellers available even as they roll out new models. 


Edited by Fastnbulbous - 3/24/14 at 11:19am
post #1402 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastnbulbous View Post
 

Any ideas why headphone.com stopped selling Denon? The AH-D2000 used to be in their top 10 recommendations for years. Do they really dislike the new line so much that they'd stop selling all Denon product? 

 

Maybe it has something to do with them now featuring Fostex TH-600 and TH-900. I know they designed the old Denons, but they are way pricier. 

 

It is too bad Denon didn't continue selling at least the D1001 and D2000. Most other companies continue to keep best sellers available even as they roll out new models. 

 

 

The old Denon line (D2000, D5000, D7000) stopped production because denon couldn't keep their contract with foster. That company is the parent company of Fostex, so Denon needed to come out with new models.

post #1403 of 1407

I see. And that's why Foster was free to pass on the design of the D1001 to Creative for use in making the Aurvana Live! model. Makes sense. 

 

Still it's odd that Headphones.com would totally stop selling Denon. 

post #1404 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastnbulbous View Post
 

I see. And that's why Foster was free to pass on the design of the D1001 to Creative for use in making the Aurvana Live! model. Makes sense. 

 

Still it's odd that Headphones.com would totally stop selling Denon. 

 

I think the answer you're looking for is here:

 

https://www.headphone.com/rightbetweenyourears/?p=2524

post #1405 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastnbulbous View Post
 

Any ideas why headphone.com stopped selling Denon? The AH-D2000 used to be in their top 10 recommendations for years. Do they really dislike the new line so much that they'd stop selling all Denon product? 

 

Maybe it has something to do with them now featuring Fostex TH-600 and TH-900. I know they designed the old Denons, but they are way pricier. 

 

It is too bad Denon didn't continue selling at least the D1001 and D2000. Most other companies continue to keep best sellers available even as they roll out new models. 

 

I'd guess they weren't selling like they wanted, the various discounts below MSRP at other retailers pretty much solidifies that.

 

They also dislike the sound presentation, the new Denon's seem to be a hate it or love it proposition.  While they find the AKG K550 better I found it anemic and somewhat nasally.  In comparison the D600 are some of if not my favorite headphones for "fun" at this time.

post #1406 of 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shike View Post

They also dislike the sound presentation, the new Denon's seem to be a hate it or love it proposition.  While they find the AKG K550 better I found it anemic and somewhat nasally.  In comparison the D600 are some of if not my favorite headphones for "fun" at this time.
Yea i couldn't get into the k550's either.
post #1407 of 1407

Just wanted to add a few more words after some more time with the D600's.  I don't generally believe in burn-in having great effects on the sound, as I only really noticed changes in about 10% of headphones that I've owned, but with D600's the changes are quite apparent.  When I first wrote the impressions they had about 10-12 hours of play on them. Now they have about 50 hours, and out of those 50 I haven't put them on my head for about a week until today, leaving them to play music while they were in their box every day for a few hours at relatively high volumes.  So it's definitely not the case of me getting adjusted to their sound or the earpads conforming to my ears resulting in a better seal.  It seems like their sound has changed quite a bit. The bass seems to be better extended than before and overall the sound just seems smoother, faster and more tight so to speak. Also, sibilance is reduced greatly, I have several songs where it was a big problem before and now it's nowhere near as bad. Vocals also seem fuller now and the overall tonality is more correct.  So, something did definitely happen to them.

 

One more thing, I think I prefer the way they sound straight out of the iPhone 4S than out of the Musical Fidelity M1 stack. Before they sounded thinner and bass was lacking out of the iPhone compared to M1 stack, but now they just seem to be tighter, especially in the bass, which is now quite bloated on the M1HPAP amp, but also more powerful and deeper.  Less bass on the iPhone actually does a favor to these cans and makes them sound more neutral. In the rest of the range, I hear no difference between the two setups playing the same music.  In fact, I hear no difference between the M1DAC and iPhone 4S when both used as sources and playing trough the two line inputs on the M1HPAP.  I can start the same song on the PC playing trough the DAC and on the iPhone 4S, and then switch between the inputs on the M1HPAP, and I swear even with my eyes closed, I cannot hear any significant difference. It is almost as if the music doesn't stop playing at all, just a tiny silent click and it continues the same as before. I'm not sure, might be placebo, but the M1 might have a tiiiiiiiiny amount more bass and slightly more "dark" tone to the sound, but again, difference is so small that it might as well be placebo, and it's definitely not the case of which sounds better, they just sound a hair different. In terms of dynamics, extension, detail, identical. I compared many tracks at very specific parts where some really tiny details pop out, and on both they were equally presented. 

 

Right now, the only major complaint I have about the D600 is their bass. It still sounds a bit confused. It's definitely not a bass heavy headphone, but the bass has a resonance to it, a certain amount of uncontrolled boom, and that is definitely because of the ear cups. I think its just not damped properly on the inside, and quite frankly, it still ruins the entire headphone when playing any bass heavy music.  Also, on electronic music, during the hard hitting tight punchy bass, bass seems to sound like it's going trough some tube, like some echo-effect is added to it, while on other headphones it sounds perfectly clear and tight, even on my DT770's 80 ohm version which is more bass heavy. Basically they can't do fast and punchy bass properly.

That's ultimately what removes these headphones from my ultimate favorites list. Even though the headphones are VERY clear, refined and detailed sounding, with great separation, very close to the Beyerdynamic T1's in those areas (as much as I hate to admit that), and definitely above the likes of HD650 and DT880/DT770,  it fails to be a top of the line headphones because of its bass.  If the bass was reduced by 10%, and tightness increased to a level of a say DT880, then these would for me absolutely be worth their original MSRP of 500 dollars, and would be the best sounding closed back headphones at that price.  Now, they're sort of amazing in some ways, and poor in others.  Their sound resolution, refinement, detail is great, simply put,  in terms of technicalities these are 500 dollar league headphones, in fact, I'd say out of my entire collection, the only headphones that are better in terms of technicalities are the T1's, and only by a really small, way too small margin. But the acoustics of the earcup enclosure have to be improved, a headphone of this level should not be ruined simply by some nasty reverberation of low frequencies because the manufacturer was too cheap to put a few dollars worth of dampening material into the earcup. This way,  these headphones for me work best for acoustic type of music, preferably live recordings where their really amazing soundstage for closed headphones and great depth and imaging can shine.  Albums such as Eric Clapton - Unplugged or  Antonio Forcione Quartet - In Concert sound best on these, I dare say more involving and fun than on the T1's, although that's only my personal preference. It's just a shame that because of their bass they can sound mediocre with any bass driven music music. That's why I say they're confusing headphones. With certain music I prefer them over the T1's (even with beyers plugged into a 1600 dollar setup, and denons out of an iphone),  with other they sound like a 100 dollar headphone.  


Edited by derbigpr - 3/29/14 at 6:35pm
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Appreciation Thread