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FiiO Mont Blanc/E12 portable headphone amp, 880mW, slim design, full metal case. Bass boost and Cross feed! - Page 230

post #3436 of 3695
It was me who was saying not to keep the battery charged constantly at 100%, from experience on multiple devices.

I wanted to know what what was going on so I did some research. Batteries can be charged more than 4.2 volts but for safety reasons it is limited to 4.2V, but that doesn't mean it's healthy for the battery. As a matter of fact, when only charging by just 0.10 volt less you increase the usable life of the battery by around 2x. Charging to 4.2 volts may get, for example, 300-500 cycles. Charging to 4.1 volts, in the same battery, will get 600-1000 cycles. Less is more in this case. Being fully charged is stressful on the battery. Charging to 80-90% is better than charging to 100%. Simple fact.

Read about it here...... Fourth chart down the page:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

There is also a chemical instability that occurs in the battery at the anode or cathode end when left at full charge or almost empty for extended periods. When you've seen a lithium battery puff up from being stored at full charge or discharged too much or too long it is the chemical instability taking over causing the physical swelling. I can't recal exactly what it is, but my take away (and experience) says don't keep the battery charged at full for extended periods of time.

A simpler read on the subject from 'Wired'.

http://www.wired.com/2013/09/laptop-battery/

At the end of the day you will more than likely have a new device before the battery dies when using the device regularly, but I caution against leaving the thing plugged in ALL THE TIME if you care about having any sort of charge time when you need it unplugged.

Cheers
Edited by x RELIC x - 3/23/15 at 2:49pm
post #3437 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

Leprechauns?

No.
The would be green if it was powered by Leprechauns.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about!frown.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bzippy View Post


yes, i got that and i always do unplug it when in use. i was only asking about what is best to do when not using it. i'd love to have it almost always plugged in when not in use but there was a post or two in the previous pages that said something about the chemistry getting "weird' when kept at 100% all the time (whatever that means), and that cycling is important. perhaps the amount of discharging that happens after using it once or twice is enough to satisfy this recommendation? i'm guessing it is so that's what i'll do.

the only reason i'm so annoyingly concerned about this is that i want to maximize the lifespan of this battery. i have the v1 version and i got it used, so i have no idea what abuse it has taken so far. i really love this amp and am trying to put off for as long as possible the quandary of what to do when the battery gives out, which would be to either find another of these rare v1's (and not knowing the health of that battery), send it to China for battery replacement (ugh), or embark on a new, lengthy hunt for a unit that suits me as well as this one does.

anyway, thanks.

Ya know what?
The little light bulb in my head just went on.
Managing the battery in my notebook computer or iPad or X5 is no problem......the designers were nice enough to put battery charge meters on those devices.
The E12? I have no idea how much charge is on it two days after I charge it!
Anyway, I usually just charge it when I charge the X5 because I usually use it with the X5. Errr....except when I forget to turn it off! redface.gif
Personally, I don't sweat it.
Edited by Chris J - 3/23/15 at 2:58pm
post #3438 of 3695
Not to be a prat on the subject, but here is my battery from a 2006 MacBookPro that basically died from leaving it plugged in all the time. Notice the swelling......... Not safe!




I'm putting forth my time to help users out there from damaging their devices, not trying to spread unfounded rumours.

Use the battery normally and you should be fine.
Edited by x RELIC x - 3/23/15 at 3:02pm
post #3439 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
Ya know what?
The little light bulb in my head just went on.
Managing the battery in my notebook computer or iPad or X5 is no problem......the designers were nice enough to put battery charge meters on those devices.
The E12? I have no idea how much charge is on it two days after I charge it!
Anyway, I usually just charge it when I charge the X5 because I usually use it with the X5. Errr....except when I forget to turn it off! redface.gif
Personally, I don't sweat it.

It seems obvious enough, but that's actually a great idea and just what i'm gonna do: charge the E12 when i charge the X3. i mean, they're stacked together after all. often i use the X3 without the E12 (into my home stereo or car or whatever) so it's unlikely the the E12 will run out before the X3. this is a plan i can get behind. i'm an idiot. thanks.


Edited by bzippy - 3/23/15 at 3:09pm
post #3440 of 3695
That is a defective battery. Do not confuse the two.
All these devices have dedicated ICs which implement all the charging policies for the target battery.
This is what I use preferably, but there are tons of ICs doing basically the same thing:

http://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX1737.pdf

If someone opens up the E12 and posts an high-res picture on the back (must be there, because it isn't in the front) of the PCB, we will know exactly what they use.
Bottom line, life is to short to waste time in keeping batteries in the freezer at half the charge, in order to extend their life.
I keep it always plugged, I let the IC state machine to take care of the charge, and when I have to unplug it, I know I have full charge.
post #3441 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzippy View Post

It seems obvious enough, but that's actually a great idea and just what i'm gonna do: charge the E12 when i charge the X3. i mean, they're stacked together after all. often i use the X3 without the E12 (into my home stereo or car or whatever) so it's unlikely the the E12 will run out before the X3. this is a plan i can get behind. i'm an idiot. thanks.

You're an idiot?
I was the guy who missed the point of the whole question!
Which is:
How do I manage the battery on a rechargeable device without a battery charge meter? redface.gif
post #3442 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotIce View Post

That is a defective battery. Do not confuse the two.
All these devices have dedicated ICs which implement all the charging policies for the target battery.
This is what I use preferably, but there are tons of ICs doing basically the same thing:

http://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX1737.pdf

If someone opens up the E12 and posts an high-res picture on the back (must be there, because it isn't in the front) of the PCB, we will know exactly what they use.
Bottom line, life is to short to waste time in keeping batteries in the freezer at half the charge, in order to extend their life.
I keep it always plugged, I let the IC state machine to take care of the charge, and when I have to unplug it, I know I have full charge.

No. Happened to me twice. This is the replacement battery. Also my mother-in-laws laptop and my iPod classic both have very low battery life from being plugged in all the time, but no swelling. I gave the links. I've experienced the drawbacks. I'm not talking about overcharging, or freezer myths. It's a fact that you reduce the life of a battery this way. If anyone wants to burry their head in the sand and leave their batteries PLUGGED IN ALL THE TIME without caring then that's their prerogative.
post #3443 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by x RELIC x View Post

No. Happened to me twice. This is the replacement battery. Also my mother-in-laws laptop and my iPod classic both have very low battery life from being plugged in all the time, but no swelling. I gave the links. I've experienced the drawbacks. I'm not talking about overcharging, or freezer myths. It's a fact that you reduce the life of a battery this way. If anyone wants to burry their head in the sand and leave their batteries PLUGGED IN ALL THE TIME without caring then that's their prerogative.

Oh no!
Mother in law stories....eek.gif
post #3444 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Oh no!
Mother in law stories....eek.gif

Oh man, I've got some stories about her....... eek.gif

But this is getting off topic. For what it's worth I've forgot to turn off my e12 on occasion and it has drained completely but I haven't seen any ill effects yet. I'm sure FiiO has implemented the 20% minimum cut off in the controller.
Edited by x RELIC x - 3/23/15 at 3:26pm
post #3445 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by x RELIC x View Post


. . . For what it's worth I've forgot to turn off my e12 on occasion and it has drained completely but I haven't seen any ill effects yet. I'm sure FiiO has implemented the 20% minimum cut off in the controller.


i think you're right about that. from the E12 manual:

 

(3) Charging Indicator: When charging, red light shows respiration lamp effect; After fully-recharged, red light remains on steadily; Low power in using, red light keeps flashing; When battery voltage goes below 10.2 V, it will shut off automatically to remind user to get it recharged.

 

and you know that's a legit quote because i don't think you can fake that kind of grammar. ;) (no offense to my Chinese friends)

post #3446 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


No.
The would be green if it was powered by Leprechauns.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about!frown.gif

 

Obviously I have better Leprechauns than you have. :evil: Pay them more.

post #3447 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

 

Obviously I have better Leprechauns than you have. :evil: Pay them more.

 

No, your Leprechauns are obviously Commies.

post #3448 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

 

Obviously I have better Leprechauns than you have. :evil: Pay them more.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

No, your Leprechauns are obviously Commies.

No commies here. Senator Eugene McCarthy rooted out commie Leprechauns long ago.

post #3449 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post


No commies here. Senator Eugene McCarthy rooted out commie Leprechauns long ago.

Glad to hear that McCarthy rooted out them sumbitches!
They were obviously polluting the morals of our youth.
post #3450 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


Glad to hear that McCarthy rooted out them sumbitches!
They were obviously polluting the morals of our youth.

They were planning to hack DACs, Imagine hearing voices coming from an E18 telling you to do naughty things with silver headphone cables?

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