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FiiO Mont Blanc/E12 portable headphone amp, 880mW, slim design, full metal case. Bass boost and Cross feed! - Page 123

post #1831 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkmanrocks13 View Post

Well, I have ALAC rips as well as FLAC on my PC HD, so I can compare the amps using my desktop PC (using a Sabre DAC into each of the amps), so I can do an apples to apples re lossless with FLAC or ALAC. The reason I may keep both is to use one around the house (C&C) and one anchored to my PC. Or not. No rush as I have a 30-day MBG on Amazon for the E12.

 

Look forward to the lossless comparison.


The thing is, at these prices it's just too easy to keep em all :)

 

Swear to god they need to do a "Hoarders" episode just for audio freaks. We're worse than the NRA when it comes to "My Cold Dead Hands":)

post #1832 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkmanrocks13 View Post

Funniest thing is, I sold the expensive Arrow 4G to "downsize" to the C&C BH and then the darn E12 came out. But I will be testing out both with lossless in the upcoming days.

 

Hoarders indeed. If you only knew.

 

Oh I know, believe me I knowdevil_face.gif

post #1833 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post


Here's a question for you. How does the V1 bass boost compare to the E11's?

 

I no longer have either, so please take this with a grain of salt, but... quantity-wise, E11 gives a lot.

 

But quality-wise, E12 is ahead. Bass boost on v1 gives a subtle, more weight and body, kind of boost to bass. To me, that's closer to real audiophile bass than just adding more to the mesh.

post #1834 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

Look forward to the lossless comparison.


The thing is, at these prices it's just too easy to keep em all smily_headphones1.gif

Swear to god they need to do a "Hoarders" episode just for audio freaks. We're worse than the NRA when it comes to "My Cold Dead Hands"smily_headphones1.gif

Hmmmm...........
I just started selling off approx. half a dozen audio components I no longer use.

But I still can't get myself to throw out some old phono cartridges which are basically junk.....!
Don't ask me about my cable collection!
post #1835 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 

I no longer have either, so please take this with a grain of salt, but... quantity-wise, E11 gives a lot.

 

But quality-wise, E12 is ahead. Bass boost on v1 gives a subtle, more weight and body, kind of boost to bass. To me, that's closer to real audiophile bass than just adding more to the mesh.

 

This is probably a question for FIIO themselves. I was pondering whether they returned to the E11 BB circuitry for E12 V2 then. The user reports would seem to suggest so. With the E12 I find the boost is far too sensitive to the headphone itself. It works well on setting 1 on T20's while the same settings turn my earbuds to mud.

post #1836 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

That's how it starts:L3000:

You cannot do flac's on the ipod, can you?  You really need lossless files for amp comparisons else it tends to favour the loudest (highest current amp) in this case I believe that would be the C&C
iPods cannot play FLAC files (at least without modding the software), but they can play Apple Lossless files.
Why do you think the C&C would be the higher current amp? FWIR, the C&C tends to use much less power (thus the longer battery life from a smaller battery). I also thought Voltage (in relation to a headphone's impedance and sensitivity) was the factor that contributed to making "the loudest amp."
post #1837 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


iPods cannot play FLAC files (at least without modding the software), but they can play Apple Lossless files.
Why do you think the C&C would be the higher current amp? FWIR, the C&C tends to use much less power (thus the longer battery life from a smaller battery). I also thought Voltage (in relation to a headphone's impedance and sensitivity) was the factor that contributed to making "the loudest amp."

 

When you increase the volume control on an amp, you are driving the the headphones with more voltage.

But the headphone amplifier has to be able to provide the current that the headphone will draw when driven by the voltage.

 

It's complicated, isn't it?   confused_face_2.gif

post #1838 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


iPods cannot play FLAC files (at least without modding the software), but they can play Apple Lossless files.
Why do you think the C&C would be the higher current amp? FWIR, the C&C tends to use much less power (thus the longer battery life from a smaller battery). I also thought Voltage (in relation to a headphone's impedance and sensitivity) was the factor that contributed to making "the loudest amp."


ALAC will do in a pinch.

 

I thought somewhere on here I had read the C&C was a 300mw amp (into 16 ohms I think).  I really really do not want to get into the nuts and bolts of it as the Objective Mafia will crawl all over me with their endless amounts of mathematical "proofs". Current is generally the larger factor. (Think capacitance discharge systems like tasers or ignition systems) 50,000 volts at 3mA wont kill you, 50,000 volts at 1A will:)

post #1839 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

When you increase the volume control on an amp, you are driving the the headphones with more voltage.
But the headphone amplifier has to be able to provide the current that the headphone will draw when driven by the voltage.

It's complicated, isn't it?   confused_face_2.gif
Yes. I usually stick to generalizations and try not to sound like an authority on the subject, lol. But would an amp's current remain constant (assuming a constant ohm load) as you turn up the volume, thus making the voltage the variable that changes volume within one amp circuit? Aka voltage drives headphone volume, more current drives a headphone... with more dynamic amplitude?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

ALAC will do in a pinch.

I thought somewhere on here I had read the C&C was a 300mw amp (into 16 ohms I think).  I really really do not want to get into the nuts and bolts of it as the Objective Mafia will crawl all over me with their endless amounts of mathematical "proofs". Current is generally the larger factor. (Think capacitance discharge systems like tasers or ignition systems) 50,000 volts at 3mA wont kill you, 50,000 volts at 1A will:)
Yes, well... what do the E12's stats list for current at the same load as a C&C? First page post...
post #1840 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post


ALAC will do in a pinch.

 

I thought somewhere on here I had read the C&C was a 300mw amp (into 16 ohms I think).  I really really do not want to get into the nuts and bolts of it as the Objective Mafia will crawl all over me with their endless amounts of mathematical "proofs". Current is generally the larger factor. (Think capacitance discharge systems like tasers or ignition systems) 50,000 volts at 3mA wont kill you, 50,000 volts at 1A will:)

 

The Objective mafia drive me nuts. too.angry_face.gif

That's why I try and avoid the Sound Science Fiction Forum.

Too many outsized egos.

 

Basically, to avoid clipping, you need enough voltage AND enough current.

As you know, Power = Voltage X Current.

 

If you don't have enough current, then lots of voltage won't help you.

OTOH

If you don't have enough voltage, then lots of current won't help you either.

It's like asking do I need more horsepower or more torque.

Answer, it depends.

 

relatively speaking:

For low impedance headphones, a bit more current and a bit less voltage.

For high impedance headphones, a bit more voltage .and a bit less current is necessary.

 

And that's what I like about the E12, enough power for just about any headphone if you exclude Planars.

But then who would use a Planar 'phone with a $125 amp?

 

  • Propellorhead warning:

http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance


Edited by Chris J - 4/14/13 at 3:49pm
post #1841 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post


ALAC will do in a pinch.

 

I thought somewhere on here I had read the C&C was a 300mw amp (into 16 ohms I think).  I really really do not want to get into the nuts and bolts of it as the Objective Mafia will crawl all over me with their endless amounts of mathematical "proofs". Current is generally the larger factor. (Think capacitance discharge systems like tasers or ignition systems) 50,000 volts at 3mA wont kill you, 50,000 volts at 1A will:)

 

The Objective mafia drive me nuts. too.angry_face.gif

That's why I try and avoid the Sound Science Fiction Forum.

Too many outsized egos.

 

Basically, to avoid clipping, you need enough voltage AND enough current.

As you know, Power = Voltage X Current.

 

If you don't have enough current, then lots of voltage won't help you.

OTOH

If you don't have enough voltage, then lots of current won't help you either.

 

relatively speaking:

For low impedance headphones, a bit more current and a bit less voltage.

For high impedance headphones, a bit more voltage .and a bit less current is necessary.

 

And that's what I like about the E12, enough power for just about any headphone if you exclude Planars.

But then who would use a Planar 'phone with a $125 amp?

Yes yes we all know you love to mock the objetivists.

 

The E12 is $125? Amazon has it going for $140, and the MSRP says $199. *confused*

post #1842 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Yes yes we all know you love to mock the objetivists.

 

The E12 is $125? Amazon has it going for $140, and the MSRP says $199. *confused*

I bought my E12 at The Headfoneshop in Canada, eh.

 

What's wrong with mocking The Objective Evangelists? A boy needs a hobby, doesn't he?  beerchug.gif

post #1843 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Yes yes we all know you love to mock the objetivists.

 

The E12 is $125? Amazon has it going for $140, and the MSRP says $199. *confused*

I bought my E12 at The Headfoneshop in Canada, eh.

 

What's wrong with mocking The Objective Evangelists? A boy needs a hobby, doesn't he?  beerchug.gif

I might buy an E12. I live in the USA and I would prefer the vendor to accept payment through PayPal. Does anyone have suggestions?

 

People have been asking for a FiiO E12 versus JDS Labs C5 comparison and I guess I'm the only one who owns a C5 and is interested in it (or vice-versa). XD

 

I would do the comparisons with a V-MODA M-100 and AKG K 701 (newer 8-bump headband version) with an ODAC.


Edited by miceblue - 4/14/13 at 4:46pm
post #1844 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

I might buy an E12. I live in the USA and I would prefer the vendor to accept payment through PayPal. Does anyone have suggestions?

 

People have been asking for a FiiO E12 versus JDS Labs C5 comparison and I guess I'm the only one who owns a C5 and is interested in it (or vice-versa). XD

 

I see E12s on ebay, but all are shipping from China and are all over $140. You're better off just ordering one from Amazon for that price. It will ship quicker plus you have the Amazon guarantee.

 

Or you can just buy one directly from a distributor like Micca on their website for $130, I think.

post #1845 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Yes. I usually stick to generalizations and try not to sound like an authority on the subject, lol. But would an amp's current remain constant (assuming a constant ohm load) as you turn up the volume, thus making the voltage the variable that changes volume within one amp circuit? Aka voltage drives headphone volume, more current drives a headphone... with more dynamic amplitude?
Yes, well... what do the E12's stats list for current at the same load as a C&C? First page post...

 

Nope. Both voltage and current have to scale with volume. Which one scales more depends a lot on the headphone, but in general, higher impedance headphones require more voltage, and lower impedance requires more current.

 

When the amp has reached the maximum voltage/current it can deliver, and the load asks for more, then the power supply would veer into "unknown territory" and start pushing what it doesn't have. That's when clipping occurs... and that's why amps as powerful as the E12 (or even more powerful like the Schiit Magni, or Burson Audio Soloist and the likes...) exist.

 

Anyway, as I recall, the E12 can push more than 1W through low impedance. C&C BH from my testing can barely push my relatively easy to drive Audio Technica ES10 without clipping (clipping would occur at high gain), so I doubt it has that much current driving capability.

 

Lack of official specs also doesn't help here...

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