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FiiO Mont Blanc/E12 portable headphone amp, 880mW, slim design, full metal case. Bass boost and Cross feed! - Page 108

post #1606 of 3695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pngwn View Post

The BH is a great amp for the price ($100) and does have ungodly battery time. I have a BH and E12 and only prefer the E12 because of the more textured bass boost. The BH is a good alternative that is a little more neutral and is great at detail retrieval.

you will find the huge difference when you try to drive a HD650 or 880 or AKG701.
post #1607 of 3695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy View Post

Does anyone know how many e12s went out in the first batch. We must be getting to the point where 25% have been resold (you are a fickle lot)

ps I bought mine second hand so I could specifically get the original version

I think it was in this thread that someone mentioned using Velcro to attach it to your iPod. Some one mentioned it was industrial strength and thin. Can whoever it was define tell me how thin? as 2 pieces of the 3M stuff I have comes to 5mm and I'm wondering if there is something more suitable?

the total is about 300 PCS
post #1608 of 3695
Others can compare the E11 and E12 for you better than I can, but the E12 definitely is a great SS amp. Built with higher-quality components than the E11, I definitely feel like the E12 competes well as a portable at it's price point.
post #1609 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

 

And here I thought objectivism died with Ayn Rand.  There's merit to both arguments, the problem with objectiveists is they run into a road block when it comes to the psycho acoustic model as science has not yet explained that sufficiently well to determine why we have a preference to one sound or another.

 

No, it's alive and well on the Science Fiction Forum! rolleyes.gif

 

Their basic tenet seems to be you should only strive for a neutral sound and if it wasn't measured, it doesn't exist.

post #1610 of 3695
But... I love science fiction!
post #1611 of 3695
I thought an amp is solid state if only it never used an opamp, did this change or has it always been so?

I'm a science guy myself but that science section is too measurement-biased even for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Others can compare the E11 and E12 for you better than I can, but the E12 definitely is a great SS amp. Built with higher-quality components than the E11, I definitely feel like the E12 competes well as a portable at it's price point.
post #1612 of 3695
Usually its tube amps and everything else as SS. Be it op amp based or discrete. But of course. Hybrids an many exceptions blah.
post #1613 of 3695
Ahh I see, I think "discrete" was the key word I'm missing cuz looking at the circuits for burson and schiit is very cool
post #1614 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

Ahh I see, I think "discrete" was the key word I'm missing cuz looking at the circuits for burson and schiit is very cool
There are pros and cons for going discrete or in using op amps. Depends on the company bit discrete units will generally cost more in rd and price and has to be sold en mass successfully. They can get better sound if the condition on price is passed. But then there are some impedence, noise, and distortion elements that if not dealt with correctly, can lead to a bad unit and thus high r and d.

Op amps avoidthat problem.

This is based on my own interp. and findings and he who shall not be named.

Correct me otherwise please. Good to learn
post #1615 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

No, it's alive and well on the Science Fiction Forum! rolleyes.gif

 

Their basic tenet seems to be you should only strive for a neutral sound and if it wasn't measured, it doesn't exist.


I am big on neutral sound myself, not neutered though. And really what is neutral. How do you measure it? Take a signal directly off the source and measure it again aftter the speaker? The source itself alters the sound so you wind up in a heisenberg loop of empirical data. It's much like the digital vs analog wars. As for "hearing what was intended by the recording artist" I would strongly recommend anyone with any interest in the topic read John Culshaws Ring Resounding to see what is actually intended by the producers. And what he envisioned in 1963 as the future of home audio. It sure is NOT what we have been hyped by the "audiophile" community who seem to exist to support obscure artists making albums solely for the purpose of showing off equipment. Simply put there are two camps the folks who exist to buy stuff and the folks who exist to listen to music. I'm all for measurement, but it never tells me what I am actually hearing.

 

Thus endeth the rant.

post #1616 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post


There are pros and cons for going discrete or in using op amps. Depends on the company bit discrete units will generally cost more in rd and price and has to be sold en mass successfully. They can get better sound if the condition on price is passed. But then there are some impedence, noise, and distortion elements that if not dealt with correctly, can lead to a bad unit and thus high r and d.

Op amps avoidthat problem.

This is based on my own interp. and findings and he who shall not be named.

Correct me otherwise please. Good to learn

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

I thought an amp is solid state if only it never used an opamp, did this change or has it always been so?

I'm a science guy myself but that science section is too measurement-biased even for me

 

I hear ya talkin' science guy.

Science is not a tool of inflexible dictatorship!

 

Solid State is a term used to refer to transistor amplifiers..........amplifiers that use transistors.

So a tube amp is not a Solid State amp.

 

An example of a Solid State amp would be an amplifier that uses Op Amps.

Virtually all Modern Op Amps are built as Integrated Circuits.........meaning a set of transistors on a piece of silicon........similar to a Microprocessor.

So Op Amps are Solid State.

Solid state also refers to an amplifier built with discrete transistors. 

BTW you can have impedance, noise and distortion issues if you mis-apply Op Amps or choose the wrong Op Amp for the application.

It depends............

 

Op Amps are so cheap that it is very difficult to justify building a pre-amp or headphone amp with only discrete transistors.

Of course if you need a lot of power, like a speaker amp, then discrete transistors start looking pretty good.

 

BTW, a few exceptions here:

In the 40's and 50's you could buy vacuum tube Op Amps.

As B 006 pointed out, when you use tubes and transistors the circuit is called a Hybrid circuit.

post #1617 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

 

 

 

BTW you can have impedance, noise and distortion issues if you mis-apply Op Amps or choose the wrong Op Amp for the application.

It depends............

 

Op Amps are so cheap that it is very difficult to justify building a pre-amp or headphone amp with only discrete transistors.

Of course if you need a lot of power, like a speaker amp, then discrete transistors start looking pretty good.

 

As B 006 pointed out, when you use tubes and transistors the circuit is called a Hybrid circuit.

Yeah, it depends. But from my readings. It happens much easier with discrete ones as they require actual research and development and all those other good stuff and thus you need a bit more money to make a discrete amp as it costs money to weed out those problems. Op amps also can have those but not as 'easy'.

 

Yep, price price price price. Everything about money.

post #1618 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Yeah, it depends. But from my readings. It happens much easier with discrete ones as they require actual research and development and all those other good stuff and thus you need a bit more money to make a discrete amp as it costs money to weed out those problems. Op amps also can have those but not as 'easy'.

 

Yep, price price price price. Everything about money.

 

 

Confused.......................I guess you mean it's easier to screw up a discrete circuit?  LOL!

You need more R&D time to build a good circuit with discrete transistors?

 

If, yes, I agree!  

 

BTW, I certainly don't hate discrete transistor circuits! Bryston builds a great discrete transistor headphone amp.

As you point out............big $$$. You could buy a few E12s for that much money.  $1400, I think? 

 

Cheers!

post #1619 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

 

Confused.......................I guess you mean it's easier to screw up a discrete circuit?  LOL!

You need more R&D time to build a good circuit with discrete transistors?

 

If, yes, I agree!  

 

BTW, I certainly don't hate discrete transistor circuits! Bryston builds a great discrete transistor headphone amp.

As you point out............big $$$. You could buy a few E12s for that much money.  $1400, I think? 

 

Cheers!

Yes, easier to screw up, and thus more R and D time to make stuff that works right. Also, people that generally do discrete amps, I've found, are more eccentric and don't just want to follow regular designs but entirely new ones following their own theory of how audio works.

They want to be different. Audio-Gd's Kingwa is a great example of this.

 

10 E12's?

 

I have an Audio-Gd and it is built well :)

post #1620 of 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Yes, easier to screw up, and thus more R and D time to make stuff that works right. Also, people that generally do discrete amps, I've found, are more eccentric and don't just want to follow regular designs but entirely new ones following their own theory of how audio works.

They want to be different. Audio-Gd's Kingwa is a great example of this.

 

10 E12's?

 

I have an Audio-Gd and it is built well :)

 

I used to design Analog Signal Processing hardware for a SONAR research system.

I used Op Amps.

I guess that means I'm not eccentric!     LOL!  biggrin.gif

 

I don't know what I would do with 10 E12s, but I do know what I would do with 1 E12 or 1 Bryston HPA-1.

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