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FiiO " Flagship " portable amp Mont Blanc/E12 discussing thread. - Page 26

post #376 of 3129
For better or for worse, I think you'll see that more niche consumer product developers tend to have a closer relationship with users when designing products, than say Apple or Samsung when designing phones. Apple in particular has a history of not particularly caring about current feelings of the people. It takes a certain kind of company to switch from PowerPC to x86 and screw everyone over when it comes to software compatibility. However, when the majority of advertising comes from word of mouth (forum), and most buyers are doing some kind of research, you want other consumers to be happy and feel involved. For example, I don't think this is a particularly strong market or one that really knows what it's doing, but gaming peripherals manufacturers tend to heavily use consumer feedback, use enthusiasts for product testing, etc.

If you look at the original plan for the E12 prior to feedback, it was to use 6x AAA batteries. I think having a single battery with the current charging scheme is an improvement in usability over that... The original plan was to have higher output levels and performance than the E11, and that's generally not happening without a larger size.

Anyway, if you're using IEMs on the go with an amp strapped to a phone, you don't want an E12 anyway. There are other amps out there for that. That said, obviously a shorter length would be better, but at the expense of what? There's also something of a trend towards larger smartphones.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PanamaHat View Post

Anyone know the specs on this baby? Output impedence, mW, load it can power? I'm thinking this would a be a great replacement for my e17 rolleyes.gif

It uses LME49710 + LME49600 design running off +/- 11V rails. Output impedance should be low, unless they decide to add some for whatever reason. However, that seems unlikely considering the stated output power levels below and the rails used.

See a previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by feiao View Post

Depend on the test of the engineer sample, the output power @32 ohms headphones is about 1.3w to 1.4w, and @16 ohms headphones is about 900mW, so I believe it can drive almost all hard to drive headphone except some " monster " headphone like the AKG K1000。

1.3W @ 32 ohms is about 6.5V rms (18.5 peak-to-peak, not far from 22V to work with). Around 6.5V or a little more can drive 600 ohms Beyerdynamics and so on very loud, same for planar magnetics like HE-500 / LCD-2/3, etc. To be honest, E9 caps out at just above 7V and is quoted at 1W for 16 ohms. This thing can apparently do E9 levels of power, yet it can run off battery.
post #377 of 3129
Let me break up your post so I can quote accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaiSAn View Post

I am certain you are all audio enthusiasts, trying to manufacture a product but lack the professional R&D approach, to put it bluntly you are amateurs when it comes to production R&D. Being enthusiastic does not necessarily mean you are professionally capable. Professionals would NOT request/require consumer feed-back for development, at lease not forum personal opinions, have you ever seen Samsung or Apple enter Forums to ask for opinions ? It is a case of "too many cooks spoils the broth" you have lost sight of the original concept of portability and ended up designing an Amp for indoor usage with full sized headphones.

Nothing wrong with allowing users to voice opinions. After all, we are talking about a product for personal use. All FiiO has to do is to prune the suggestions and evaluate if it is a sound addition, and if it is feasible in all its ways.
And besides, even a professional would take into consideration the requests of their clients. The poor soul that commissions an architect to design him a house, with specifically the use of skylights, and the architect takes the cash and gives him a pleasing design but zero consideration for skylights because he didn't like the idea. Not because it isn't feasible. Seriously? This sounds like your definition of "professional".

Are you aware of what the two companies you quoted are? Samsung and Apple. One is the company (albeit split into independent groups) that practically controls a whole country's economy, and the other is world famous in design dystopia: "This is how we vision it. This is how it will be. That is all. You take it or leave it, we have enough sheeples to support us."

On a spare note, V-MODA has also taken suggestions for some of their latest products, and needless to say fans are well grateful and ever more supportive to the company. And while it may not be a direct seek of audience, companies like Sennheiser also answered prayers and introduced a model that bridges the gap between the HD650 and HD800. Did they do it because they thought it would be original? Or perhaps because there has been people hoping for something of that description throughout the years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaiSAn View Post

This is because you design a product for a category but fail to keep the criteria bound to that category which is PORTABILITY as stated in the title of this OP. You are also wrong when you say the JDS Labs C421 and the ALO portable Amps are of the same size, they are NOT, C421 and ALO Rx MK3, ALO Rx MkII, etc etc are 10cm +/- in length but the E12 is 124cm long and it is this extra 2cm which makes it not fully congruous with mobile-phone usage because it will block the back camera. Your suggestion of attaching the E12 to the screen of the iPhone (how to access the UI ?) or sliding the Amp up/down (risking scratches on a £699 device ?) definitely show signs of thoughtless input , same as your R&D.
Woah. 1.24m amp. That is serious business. Let me fix that for you: 12.4cm or 124mm.

There are many phones larger than an iPhone and don't forget that portable amps are not limited to be used with phones. For the bite-mark-fruit worshipers, something the size of a Galaxy Note for example may be blasphemy, but for the rest of the world there is some sense into it. Specially in business. Not all back facing camera of modern phones will be blocked by "12.4cm". Mind you, I did not read the whole thread but is this 12.4cm including the knob? If yes, let me remind you that there is a way to position the knob so that it doesn't block the iPhone's camera.

Let us put that besides the point: what dictates that a portable amp must have clearance for the back facing camera? I'd say look at audiophile portable stacks. Some portable amps aren't even pocketable. I would have to imagine something non-pocketable to not have clearance for the back facing camera on phones. 12.4cm still seems in the portable range given a non-ridiculous thickness. Would you prefer FiiO to reclassify their amp as "transportable" instead of "portable"? I'm not sure too many companies actually use that classification despite the lack of actual mobility. You can go grief the other R&D teams too. I won't tell you if you'll be taken as a proper suggestion, or to be kindly told to leave the room.

Let me also remind you that by counting the added length from a iPhone (!!!!) compatible LOD adds a bit more length below the camera. FiiO's own L11 would give you almost the extra 2.4cm you are so adamant about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaiSAn View Post

If the OP title states *Upcoming FiiO " Flagship " amp Mont Blanc/E12*, I would say you have been very successful and if true to the specifications then you have a very good product.
Something which is NOT portable for a portable Amp then you have failed because you design the device to the users wishes rather than adherent to the original criteria of portability.
I also understand the reason for defending a product when it is far too late to pull from production to meet ETA. The more vehement the defence, the more truth in the ridicule.
You can self congratulate, self praise however much, the device is still too long to be congruous with mobile phones (I repeat yet again).
If you have suggestions and recommendations, leave them as such.
You can self congratulate, self praise however much, but your opinion is still very biased and takes little to no consideration of other electronic devices that can be used with it. I do agree that using a portable amp that blocks the camera can be a little inconvenient at times but I am reminded that the amp is not fused to the back of my phone. If I have to use the camera I unplug the amp. Simple as that. Why would I want extra weight in my hands when trying to point and shoot anyway. There are give and takes to each implementation (e.g. larger battery capacity --> more weight or more expensive), and would like to remind you that a portable amp is not defined by +/- 10cm length, or a profile like that of a Go-Dap or VAMP.

P.S. last time I checked, a portable computer (laptop/netbook) covers my phone's back facing camera when I try to strap it on. mad.gif I want my money back.
post #378 of 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaiSAn View Post


I am certain you are all audio enthusiasts, trying to manufacture a product but lack the professional R&D approach, to put it bluntly you are amateurs when it comes to production R&D. Being enthusiastic does not necessarily mean you are professionally capable. Professionals would NOT request/require consumer feed-back for development, at lease not forum personal opinions, have you ever seen Samsung or Apple enter Forums to ask for opinions ? It is a case of "too many cooks spoils the broth" you have lost sight of the original concept of portability and ended up designing an Amp for indoor usage with full sized headphones.
This is because you design a product for a category but fail to keep the criteria bound to that category which is PORTABILITY as stated in the title of this OP. You are also wrong when you say the JDS Labs C421 and the ALO portable Amps are of the same size, they are NOT, C421 and ALO Rx MK3, ALO Rx MkII, etc etc are 10cm +/- in length but the E12 is 124cm long and it is this extra 2cm which makes it not fully congruous with mobile-phone usage because it will block the back camera. Your suggestion of attaching the E12 to the screen of the iPhone (how to access the UI ?) or sliding the Amp up/down (risking scratches on a £699 device ?) definitely show signs of thoughtless input , same as your R&D.
If the OP title states *Upcoming FiiO " Flagship " amp Mont Blanc/E12*, I would say you have been very successful and if true to the specifications then you have a very good product.
Something which is NOT portable for a portable Amp then you have failed because you design the device to the users wishes rather than adherent to the original criteria of portability.
I also understand the reason for defending a product when it is far too late to pull from production to meet ETA. The more vehement the defence, the more truth in the ridicule.
You can self congratulate, self praise however much, the device is still too long to be congruous with mobile phones (I repeat yet again).

 

can't you just unattach the amp, take your pic and reattach when you need it amping again. The length is not a design flaw, its the user's end for not using common sense.

post #379 of 3129

Yeah, let him be, if he wants to have a portable rig that can take pics and drive some 600 ohm headphones he can dream about it, or wait 'till apple or samsung releases their own amps. Because it's obvious that fiio doesn't know a bit about portable amps but he does.deadhorse.gif

 

P.S. if you can win them all, why settle with the less capable amp (fiio e11)?


Edited by sinquito - 12/9/12 at 8:14pm
post #380 of 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaiSAn View Post


I am certain you are all audio enthusiasts, trying to manufacture a product but lack the professional R&D approach, to put it bluntly you are amateurs when it comes to production R&D. Being enthusiastic does not necessarily mean you are professionally capable. Professionals would NOT request/require consumer feed-back for development, at lease not forum personal opinions, have you ever seen Samsung or Apple enter Forums to ask for opinions ?

 

Let me get this straight: you offered your opinion that they should change the design of their product (likely sacrificing quality in the process) to work around your little camera phone, and when no one was receptive to this idea, you criticize them for changing their design too much to conform to forumites' dumb ideas? Sounds like a perfect example of a Catch-22 to me....

post #381 of 3129
Thread Starter 

Very sorry, please just stop discussing the issues, not good at all, I can understand that everyone just hope to help us make a perfect products,  and we appreciate anyone who give us suggestion,

 

but please understand that sometimes " imperfect " means " perfect ", and I guess the perfect means the end of the world. because not necessary to work hard to make the world better and better.

 

Also any argument is not necessary because finally somebody will be hurt.

 

Anyway, the E12 needs very high battery capacity so we can't change the battery now, and yes, there are E11 for someone who need shorter size. when you see the inside of E12, you will find the

 

inner space already full of component and parts.

 

At the end, we will try but we can't satisfy everyone because it is impossible. if you try to do that, you will lost everyone. consider why Apple don't support TF card, replaceable battery in iPhone?

 

and why people can't manage the file inside just like Android?  

post #382 of 3129
Thread Starter 

another joke about iPhone, maybe E12 is designed for iP6? Cooker may make it like this. so the 12cm will not be a problem anymore, and I guess they will probably do that because Jobs said the perfect phone must keep the width as iPhone 1.

 

and Cooker will just follow what Jobs said. (PS. it is just a joke )

 

 

1000

post #383 of 3129
^lol! fiio just said shut up, accept the E12, and ur gonna like it!

Awesome post
post #384 of 3129

Nice one Fiio, not all of us use iPhone's as a source like someone above, so this is not made for the iPhone, but for all mp3's and other music players, stop worrying about the camera... thats why i have my ipod rig and a phone for camera and usability. Lets get back on topic and wait for this amazing amp to come out, cant wait to see how it stacks up against my JDS C421 :)

 

If i get a E12 i will compare the 2 :)

post #385 of 3129
Edit:
It's too bad one person's ill-tempered post sent ripples through the thread. For edification, it's clear that the person made some assumptions and errors, including assuming that bowei works at FiiO? I don't either, btw.

In any case, for other people who have similar questions,
two devices rubber-banded together and put in a pocket, they are bound to slide against eachother at least a little. The casing on both ought to be tough enough to slide occasionally. Another consideration is that the picture'd phone is an iPhone 4S I believe, the iPhone 5 is taller already, and for "quick snaps" many phones have a front-facing camera anyway. Personally, I have an iPod for music and a regular phone, so this isn't even an issue for me and users like me.
The other question was, why a portable amp this powerful? Well, that's kind of a personal choice, but there definitely is a consumer demand for it. For example in my case, I like the idea of an amp suited for my AKG Q701 that is no hassle to reconnect between my computer, my Xbox and home theater, my iPod when I want to listen in bed, or with my iPod when I take some headphones with me to work or on a plane. Space is also an issue in my bedroom, finding a place to set a desktop amp down and plug into the wall could be annoying - It's easier to set up an E12 next to me to fiddle with volume while i'm laying down or sitting at my desk. One amp, do all, not likely to need another.
Another consideration is that power isn't merely resultant in volume gain (and voltage?), even lower impedance and higher sensitivity headphones benefit from increased current.
Am I going to listen to my AKGs while walking down the street? No. Is it a benefit to take a powerful amp anywhere? Yes. Is it for me and you? YMMV.
Edited by Evshrug - 12/10/12 at 5:35am
post #386 of 3129
PS I have the lightsaber and Jared apps in the iPhone 10 picture!
PPS, I already use my iPod and Phone as flashlights, maybe the iPhone 10 would be the perfect replacement for those massive flashlights used by security guards? LOL! Joking of course.
post #387 of 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Edit:
It's too bad one person's ill-tempered post sent ripples through the thread. For edification, it's clear that the person made some assumptions and errors, including assuming that bowei works at FiiO? I don't either, btw.
.
I dont. For example,
Clieos doesnt work for all the company he reviews for and joker doesnt as well. I got review units and thus i know a loy about that unit. I am also a very active head fier. The majority of questions are on Fiio products and thus I know a lot about their stuff.

And thus due to the popularity of FiiO. I prioritize putting up videos and impression threads on it becuase i know people want to see
post #388 of 3129
Same here, I don't work for any of the companies, I may work with them for reviews, but not for them.
Reviewers unite smily_headphones1.gif
post #389 of 3129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Great of you to note that we here in this thread aren't professional manufacturer's. 

 

We never said that. We enthusiasts buy the stuff that a company makes. 

 

Samsung and Apple and every company ever has used customer feedback in some way shape or form. People complained about the shuffle feature on iPods half a decade ago and other problems. Guess what they changed? People noted that Samsung TV of specific model had a burn in issue, guess what they changed?

 

In an effort to remain courteous, I will refrain from commenting on the rest of your comment.

 

Have a great day. 

 

If every CEO can spent 10 mins to listen what the user complain about each day, we will be more happy . I am a customer too. but never got any response from any big company if I have problem, but I can said that we almost replied any feedback as we can. at least each email sent to us.

 

and you guys all known that I spend lots of time on head-fi and other forum, facebook and I replied lots of email by my self. just because it is our culture and next year we will do better because there are someone will response to collect all the feedback in internet and our R/D

 

manager and QC manager will also try to response to the end user . All we need is a little understanding because we can do anything we want because the world is not perfect, but I am very proud that at least we have very good interaction with our users or potential users.

post #390 of 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by feiao View Post

If every CEO can spent 10 mins to listen what the user complain about each day, we will be more happy . I am a customer too. but never got any response from any big company if I have problem, but I can said that we almost replied any feedback as we can. at least each email sent to us.

and you guys all known that I spend lots of time on head-fi and other forum, facebook and I replied lots of email by my self. just because it is our culture and next year we will do better because there are someone will response to collect all the feedback in internet and our R/D

manager and QC manager will also try to response to the end user . All we need is a little understanding because we can do anything we want because the world is not perfect, but I am very proud that at least we have very good interaction with our users or potential users.
Thanks for the reply. Ceos on general do listen just not directly. They generally from wht I see take feedback from their departements.
If you have any problem with Sennheiser, i can talk to them lol. I live 5min from their U.S headquarters

Are there any plans for good fiio speakers and iems?
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