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FiiO " Flagship " portable amp Mont Blanc/E12 discussing thread. - Page 120

post #1786 of 3054

Sure, all I need is a loaner E12.  ;-)

post #1787 of 3054
biggrin.gif:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScratch View Post


You may find old iPod chargers and some iPhone chargers with the same shell (and a lower wattage). These power adapters won't damage the E12. I really don't know if a 12V or 13V power supply can damage the E12. frown.gif I've never seen an electrical appliance that can adjust the input voltage requirements automatically depending on the power supply in use (it should be noted that the E12 should be fed with a 14V power adapter).

I'm really starting to wonder what kind of power adapter it is lol. I've found infos about some even older and bulkier power supplies which had a 13V/650mA output but those things used firewire ports instead of USB. confused.gif
^^

Only use a charger that OUTPUTS 5 VOLTS.

Do Not use a charger that outputs 12 Volts, manual states that you use a 5 Volt charger.
Unless you want to damage your E12?

BTW,
I picked up an E12 from The Headfoneshop yesterday. biggrin.gif
Haven't listened to it yet.
My E12 is charging right now...... from a 5 Volt Apple charger, of course! biggrin.gif
Edited by Chris J - 4/7/13 at 7:07am
post #1788 of 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

biggrin.gif:D
Only use a charger that OUTPUTS 5 VOLTS.

If you read the previous posts you'll see we already know that. The recent iPod/iPad/iPhone chargers output 5V (up to 5.2V on the most recent 12W power adapters). wink.gif

I am still wondering what kind of power adapter Dyaems owns, I'm not sure about its output voltage. redface.gif
post #1789 of 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScratch View Post


If you read the previous posts you'll see we already know that. The recent iPod/iPad/iPhone chargers output 5V (up to 5.2V on the most recent 12W power adapters). wink.gif

I am still wondering what kind of power adapter Dyaems owns, I'm not sure about its output voltage. redface.gif

 

yeah i checked my adapter and the specs are already scratched off, ill take a pic when i get back at home. i also have that ipod usb cable where the lod has a locking mechanism... its old, i say!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by canikickit1 View Post

Anyone want to do a Headstage Arrow vs E12? tongue.gif

 

i can try... but if i can compare the E12 and the arrow, and the arrow is only based from what i recall, tonally, the E12 is more balanced, bigger soundstage, than the midcentric and soundstage-collapsing headstage arrow. feature-wise and size, the arrow wins hands-down.

post #1790 of 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScratch View Post


If you read the previous posts you'll see we already know that. The recent iPod/iPad/iPhone chargers output 5V (up to 5.2V on the most recent 12W power adapters). wink.gif

I am still wondering what kind of power adapter Dyaems owns, I'm not sure about its output voltage. redface.gif

Your post is really confusing.................you contradict yourself.

post #1791 of 3054

heres my ancient charger and usb cable

 

 

post #1792 of 3054

@Chris J: Yeah, I'll blame it on the iPad. biggrin.gif

What I wanted to say was that recent power adapters follow the 5V output standard while Dyaems probably owned a 12V/13V output charger like the old iPod dock-to-firewire chargers (Probably a 12V power adapter will damage the E12, however I'm not sure). The E12 can be powered either via 5V DC output and 14V DC output power supplies.

 

Anyway, after some research I'm quite sure Dyaems' power adapter is the A1102 model.

 

 

5V DC 1A. There should be no problem at all! :D

post #1793 of 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScratch View Post

@Chris J: Yeah, I'll blame it on the iPad. biggrin.gif

What I wanted to say was that recent power adapters follow the 5V output standard while Dyaems probably owned a 12V/13V output charger like the old iPod dock-to-firewire chargers (Probably a 12V power adapter will damage the E12, however I'm not sure). The E12 can be powered either via 5V DC output and 14V DC output power supplies.

 

Anyway, after some research I'm quite sure Dyaems' power adapter is the A1102 model.

 

5V DC 1A. There should be no problem at all! :D

 

Let's just agree that I don't think anyone should try experimenting with E12 and 12V, 13V or 14V output chargers!  wink_face.gif

 

It may let the magic smoke out of your E12!   frown.gif

post #1794 of 3054

is this worth getting if you already have an E11?

post #1795 of 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyaems View Post
if i can compare the E12 and the arrow, and the arrow is only based from what i recall, tonally, the E12 is more balanced, bigger soundstage, than the midcentric and soundstage-collapsing headstage arrow. feature-wise and size, the arrow wins hands-down.

 

I don't follow.  I don't have an E12, but the Arrow is an amazing amp in terms of making instruments sound "whole" and 3D, as opposed to some amps that sound "hi-fi" with highs that seem dismembered from the midrange, or at least a tendency to sound uncomfortable compared to the Arrow.

 

The Arrow sound does depend on the gain setting, and on headphone impedance, so if you test, use more than one... I used 47ohm PFE 232 and 600ohm HD650.  The gain setting for these makes a huge difference, which is common if the gain is changed by changing loop feedback, and if output impedance (which changes with feedback) is not low enough such that gain changes don't cause output gain-related variations.  

 

In my tests, the middle gain setting sounds more full in the midrange than the low gain setting.  Two points: the midrange sound more realistic, not just more full.  And, the treble is more realistic, less emphasized, with the middle gain setting.  That is the only one I use.  

 

Comparing the Arrow with E17, the only FiiO that I have, shows it to be far superior in high-end realism, although the E17 is more hi-fi in detail retrieval but in a false way that grates over time.  (The DAC in the E17 is pretty good though.)


Edited by Stoney - 4/8/13 at 1:30pm
post #1796 of 3054
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrScratch View Post
 

-snipped some parts-

 

Anyway, after some research I'm quite sure Dyaems' power adapter is the A1102 model.

 

-snipped images-

 

5V DC 1A. There should be no problem at all! :D

 

thanks bro! although im a bit worried that the E12 gets too hot after an hour or two of charging when i first tried charging it, on a 220v outlet so i'll just use my pc to charge it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magihyren View Post

is this worth getting if you already have an E11?

 

they both sound different and if you are somewhat of a basshead that needs a bass boost similar to an E11, stay away from the E12. the E12 is sounds much cleaner than an E11 (or E17) though.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

 

I don't follow.  I don't have an E12, but the Arrow is an amazing amp in terms of making instruments sound "whole" and 3D, as opposed to some amps that sound "hi-fi" with highs that seem dismembered from the midrange, or at least a tendency to sound uncomfortable compared to the Arrow.

 

The Arrow sound does depend on the gain setting, and on headphone impedance, so if you test, use more than one... I used 47ohm PFE 232 and 600ohm HD650.  The gain setting for these makes a huge difference, which is common if the gain is changed by changing loop feedback, and if output impedance (which changes with feedback) is not low enough such that gain changes don't cause output gain-related variations.  

 

In my tests, the middle gain setting sounds more full in the midrange than the low gain setting.  Two points: the midrange sound more realistic, not just more full.  And, the treble is more realistic, less emphasized, with the middle gain setting.  That is the only one I use.  

 

Comparing the Arrow with E17, the only FiiO that I have, shows it to be far superior in high-end realism, although the E17 is more hi-fi in detail retrieval but in a false way that grates over time.  (The DAC in the E17 is pretty good though.)

 

E12 trumps all over the E17's amp section, and everyone who owned an E17 during our meets said that when comparing the E12 and E17. as for the arrow, we have 4 owners of arrow 4g here with different kinds of sources, other portable amps, and headphones (we can also add different cables for those who believe in cables) and we all agree that one thing that the arrow is "failing", its conjested/narrow sounding. even on low gain with all switches set to OFF/0/1. increasing gain leads to what? hiss, more conjestion, and it will also make the music have more "energy" or "lively"

 

i also want to mention that i also posted my short impression on the arrow 4g thread a few pages back. maybe you dont want to see the word "conjested" as it looks like a negative word, so ill replace it by the word " too intimate" :P

 

you will possibly say something like "we all hear differently", yes its true, but my impressions will surely be "stronger" as it is backed up by alot of people who tried and heard during meets/minimeets, not by just reading reviews in the threads here.

 

lastly, you should buy an E12 and compare it yourself. =)

 

P.S. not sure if you really own an HD650 as the hd650 only has 300 ohms, so ill correct that for you :P

 

 

edit: for multiquote


Edited by Dyaems - 4/9/13 at 5:44pm
post #1797 of 3054
Quote:

 

P.S. not sure if you really own an HD650 as the hd650 only has 300 ohms, so ill correct that for you :P

 

 

My mistake; I used a lot of 600ohm equipment back in my laboratory days (JPL Physical Acoustics and Medical Device Acoustics), so I mix it up with 300 sometimes.  Also, the chemotherapy drugs are wrecking my memory and focus.  (I use my portable rigs during chemo and recovering from it, and recovering from surgeries.)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyaems View Post

E12 trumps all over the E17's amp section, and everyone who owned an E17 during our meets said that when comparing the E12 and E17. 

 

I'm glad the E12 is winning over converts. But better than the Arrow?  Perhaps... I hope to read enough insights to glean how, in what ways... keep lots of good adjectives coming!

 

If someone knows of a comparison in-depth of the sound vs the Arrow, please point me to it. Perhaps I missed one in my search and hundreds of bookmarks. 

 

(I'm very good at inferring sound if I am given enough reviewers and adjectives and equipment, even if others don't like it, as long as they spell out what they observe... that's a useful review, not thumbs up or down.  My favorite movie reviewers can help me decide that I'd like a movie even if they didn't because they can communicate observations well.)  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyaems View Post
i also want to mention that i also posted my short impression on the arrow 4g thread a few pages back. maybe you dont want to see the word "conjested" as it looks like a negative word, so ill replace it by the word " too intimate" :P

 

you will possibly say something like "we all hear differently", yes its true, but my impressions will surely be "stronger" as it is backed up by alot of people who tried and heard during meets/minimeets, not by just reading reviews in the threads here.

 

As for the terms we use to describe the Arrow, I don't think we mean what the other thinks it means. 

 

The results I wrote above for the Arrow at different gain settings were indeed reproducible and valid (and I'm not looking for agreement—I have enough experience professionally that I don't consider "voting" useful).  Not about being right, but about being useful... If I wrote the same that everyone else focused on, it would not help; so I shine light in a different area of performance.

 

If you know about amp design, specifically gain as a function of local or global feedback in amps, then you will recognize why it seems pretty understantable that transient response and frequency balance of the Arrow is indeed different at different gains but the SAME volume.  

 

To your speculation, there was no change in "hiss" or "energy" or "liveliness" due to gain changes to speak of (seems like you are guessing).  Even if so, I set that aside for the moment (all gains work for my equipment just fine anyway).   

 

You may need to be reminded that "congestion" in English audio-speak is not synonymous with "too inimate" in any respect. "Congestion" in my reviewing and reading means one of these: lack of clarity or hearing through to details; possible intermodulation or transient distortion; some type of nonlinear error; a thickening of the sound.  "Too intimate" makes sense to my ear about the Arrow—midrange is a bit forward, but could be linear error (frequency response).  Like someone singing in your ear rather than a normal distance.  But this complements my Audeo 232 well, and my HD650 (modified) well enough.  

 

Thankfully the Arrow is different from the E17's response which is a bit sterile and bleaches out the wholeness and tone a voice or instrument slightly.  There is some hash and edginess too.  (I tested it along with many others today, including the Meridian new version, which I have on at the moment, and the LCD3 with a new Teac headphone amp that has adjustable damping factor; but that is an interesting story for another page).

 

There is no single good word for the uncanny sense of presence, but I noted the language in this review of a home preamp as similar to what I mean to write (but not to such a degree as this review).  http://dagogo.com/shindo-aurieges-l-tube-preamplifier-review

 

I'm not claiming the Arrow is perfect, but it does right the key things that matter most to me at such a low price. I do hope there are others, but I've read a lot of reviews and not seen any candidates for my needs, other than perhaps the E12 which is much cheaper.  (PS: I missed the latest meet in the San Francisco area lately but was at a previous time).  So asking about the E12 or better still about amps in the $300-500 range is more my interest, come to think of it.  

 

The Arrow is very slim and works well to give me auditory pleasure, so I'm not in a hurry to spend.  

 

Anyway, enough running on as I can do at this hour as meds wear off! ;-)


Edited by Stoney - 4/9/13 at 11:04pm
post #1798 of 3054

I noticed the same thing in fiio e11 on sennheiser ie80 & iriver s100 , bass boost and gain makes music more congested but tiny tiny bit .. soundstage is a lil bit smaller , difference is so small that you have to use your true audiophile senses to notice that but it is . So I need help now ..  how e12 can handle in terms of soundstage vs e11 ?? 

post #1799 of 3054

Are you guys uniformly using "congested" to mean smaller soundstage?  

Silly me, I just say "smaller soundstage."  

;-)

post #1800 of 3054

Personally, I think "congested" is rather the opposite of "clear separation", which means things sound bunched up and less distinct.

 

And to me, "Small soundstage" means either less left-right separation, or less depth to the sound. Compared to some other amps in the same league ($200 and below), I can say E12 is behind C421 and C&C BH when it comes to soundstage. Specifically because left-right separation isn't very wide. Depth is very good on E12, though, and it conveys very good mental image of the sound.

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