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FiiO " Flagship " portable amp Mont Blanc/E12 discussing thread. - Page 105

post #1561 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager View Post

There are a lot of people that just don't "get" calculus. It really helps if you can think of physical examples. My first wall in mathematics was vector spaces. That is also our first foray into the abstract. But the reason I had so much trouble with VS in linear algebra, was exactly why I was able to do calculus. I tried to picture what a vector space was, and it just doesn't work when it is a dimension higher than 3.... Whenever I talk to people with higher mathematics background, I want to know how they first learned vector spaces. ChrisJ, how much math did you have to endure to get that power engineering degree? Linear and DifEq? I had an applied analysis course that I hated.

Congrats evshrug. I hope you enjoy that new position. : )

Hey, congrats Evshrug!

In the first 2 years of Engineering I took 7 math courses:
1 statistics course
1 Matrix Algebra
1 Complex Variables
4 Calculus courses with Differential and Partial Differential Equations, multi-variable Integration and a bunch of other stuff that I have forgotten.
Statistics is always useful.
post #1562 of 3218
Off-topic advice, then we ought to return to the amp here wink.gif

Thanks to all for the well wishes. I'd had 4.5 months of only a few scattered freelance Graphic Design projects and volunteering at my local radio station before this, so I had A LOT of time for Head-Fi wink.gif Suddenly I'm working three jobs at once, though I put in my two-weeks with Wendy's (I was doing a good job so they actually let me work the 2 weeks) and as of Thursday I'll just be a shift manager at our local Bruegger's Bagels and working part-time as a graphic designer for a small advertising company here. It's not a bad start, but I'm also talking with people at UPMC about helping with their mobile strategies department. It's good to be busy, I didn't realize how much I missed the level of activity I had during college (graduated December 2011, Seton Hill University).

I think part of the problem with calculus was I learn best by reading and practice, but the professor (though very smart) was the kind of guy that taught talking with his back to the class while constantly writing on the chalkboard. My note-taking skills weren't highly refined yet, so I copied what he wrote on the board which made sense (ish) during class, but I'd get back to my dorm for homework and my notes looked like gibberish, and my textbook didn't help because the examples would skip steps during the solving process. I couldn't figure out the process to follow to solve any of the practice examples, which was depressing. I started seeing a tutor twice a week (which was helping, but only at 2/5ths the pace of the class) and asked the prof for help, but he said "I've seen your type before, you're not going to get it, so just drop the course and concentrate on your other studies."

I took his advice but was lost for a while, I dropped out of that university in Ohio that semester and came back home, working as a dishwasher and taking community college courses to find a new path of studies. If someone reading these words is about to go to college but isn't sure of their major, I HIGHLY recommend starting at community college and exploring different courses first before getting over your head and blowing your academic scholarships. I found quite a few professors that really impressed me and re-invented myself. Once you've picked a major, I would then recommend choosing a college/university with good alumni and business networking connections, so that you can use the university resources to have a job lined up right after you graduate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggahwhat View Post

I didn't share that positive experience. The E12 made my HE-400s sound brighter than they already are (to the point of fatigue) and didn't do much to improve the sound quality beyond increasing the volume. I eventually sold it in order to pursue a desktop amplifier. 

Was there just two or three versions of the HE-400? I had borrowed Mad Lust Envy's very recent edition of the HE-400, the difference between straight from my iPod and through E12 was distinct, mostly from much more solid bass and sub-bass extension although treble may have been more extended as well. The combo sounded amazing with some of my favorite Massive Attack tracks, but a Janis Joplin track was overpowered by the He-400's V-shaped sound signature. I kept the Mont Blanc, but not the HE-400's wink.gif
Edited by Evshrug - 3/11/13 at 6:37am
post #1563 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Off-topic advice, then we ought to return to the amp here wink.gif

Thanks to all for the well wishes. I'd had 4.5 months of only a few scattered freelance Graphic Design projects and volunteering at my local radio station before this, so I had A LOT of time for Head-Fi wink.gif Suddenly I'm working three jobs at once, though I put in my two-weeks with Wendy's (I was doing a good job so they actually let me work the 2 weeks) and as of Thursday I'll just be a shift manager at our local Bruegger's Bagels and working part-time as a graphic designer for a small advertising company here. It's not a bad start, but I'm also talking with people at UPMC about helping with their mobile strategies department. It's good to be busy, I didn't realize how much I missed the level of activity I had during college (graduated December 2011, Seton Hill University).

I think part of the problem with calculus was I learn best by reading and practice, but the professor (though very smart) was the kind of guy that taught talking with his back to the class while constantly writing on the chalkboard. My note-taking skills weren't highly refined yet, so I copied what he wrote on the board which made sense (ish) during class, but I'd get back to my dorm for homework and my notes looked like gibberish, and my textbook didn't help because the examples would skip steps during the solving process. I couldn't figure out the process to follow to solve any of the practice examples, which was depressing. I started seeing a tutor twice a week (which was helping, but only at 2/5ths the pace of the class) and asked the prof for help, but he said "I've seen your type before, you're not going to get it, so just drop the course and concentrate on your other studies."

I took his advice but was lost for a while, I dropped out of that university in Ohio that semester and came back home, working as a dishwasher and taking community college courses to find a new path of studies. If someone reading these words is about to go to college but isn't sure of their major, I HIGHLY recommend starting at community college and exploring different courses first before getting over your head and blowing your academic scholarships. I found quite a few professors that really impressed me and re-invented myself. Once you've picked a major, I would then recommend choosing a college/university with good alumni and business networking connections, so that you can use the university resources to have a job lined up right after you graduate.
Was there just two or three versions of the HE-400? I had borrowed Mad Lust Envy's very recent edition of the HE-400, the difference between straight from my iPod and through E12 was distinct, mostly from much more solid bass and sub-bass extension although treble may have been more extended as well. The combo sounded amazing with some of my favorite Massive Attack tracks, but a Janis Joplin track was overpowered by the He-400's V-shaped sound signature. I kept the Mont Blanc, but not the HE-400's wink.gif


I wonder what setting the gain switch was on.

post #1564 of 3218
Any idea of UK shipping dates yet?
post #1565 of 3218
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukaudiophile View Post

Any idea of UK shipping dates yet?

 

just start assemble the E12, the shipping date maybe the end of this month to UK.

post #1566 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

 

just start assemble the E12, the shipping date maybe the end of this month to UK.

Will all new units shipped be the enhanced bass boost units?  Do they have a designation so that we know when ordering we would be receiving these?

post #1567 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post

Will all new units shipped be the enhanced bass boost units?  Do they have a designation so that we know when ordering we would be receiving these?

I would like to know this as well, I just traded away my no bass version and would love to see how the new one sounds like.

post #1568 of 3218
Does anyone know if the e12 will work with the iPad4/iPhone5 via Lighting to 30 pin adapter>L9 LOD>Headphones?
post #1569 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeDave View Post

Does anyone know if the e12 will work with the iPad4/iPhone5 via Lighting to 30 pin adapter>L9 LOD>Headphones?

 

Yep, it will work.

 

But I'd say... a 3.5mm cable works just as well.

post #1570 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeDave View Post

Does anyone know if the e12 will work with the iPad4/iPhone5 via Lighting to 30 pin adapter>L9 LOD>Headphones?

 

Yep, it will work.

 

But I'd say... a 3.5mm cable works just as well.

3.5 mm interconnect cables won't bypass the iPhone's internal amp, so with that connection you would be double amping the audio signal.

post #1571 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

3.5 mm interconnect cables won't bypass the iPhone's internal amp, so with that connection you would be double amping the audio signal.

 

Yep. But not all double-amping is bad. The iPod Touch 4 and iPhone 5 have been measured to have a relatively flat frequency response, so there is no undue coloration in the amp section (except for extreme impedance mismatch cases). You most likely won't run into impedance mismatch with double amping when the second amp (that's connected to the headphone) is significantly better than the first (the one that's inside the device) because the input impedance of the second amp is significantly larger (the damping factor would be so large that it's way off the point of audible distortion).

 

All that's left is to consider whether the second amp has enough power (voltage or current) to deliver the listening level coming from the first amp. It's basically like you're enabling the gain switch on the E12. Nothing more.

 

That's as far as I know. Of course, I'd love to know if you have research data that points to the opposite effect (that double-amping is actually bad in all cases).


Edited by Bill-P - 3/11/13 at 2:28pm
post #1572 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

3.5 mm interconnect cables won't bypass the iPhone's internal amp, so with that connection you would be double amping the audio signal.

 

Yep. But not all double-amping is bad. The iPod Touch 4 and iPhone 5 have been measured to have a relatively flat frequency response, so there is no undue coloration in the amp section (except for extreme impedance mismatch cases). You most likely won't run into impedance mismatch with double amping when the second amp (that's connected to the headphone) is significantly better than the first (the one that's inside the device) because the input impedance of the second amp is significantly larger (the damping factor would be so large that it's way off the point of audible distortion).

 

All that's left is to consider whether the second amp has enough power (voltage or current) to deliver the listening level coming from the first amp. It's basically like you're enabling the gain switch on the E12. Nothing more.

 

That's as far as I know. Of course, I'd love to know if you have research data that points to the opposite effect (that double-amping is actually bad in all cases).

True, the frequency response is fairly flat, but the iPhone's amp still has distortion, which does add some sort of colouration (frequency response isn't the whole story).

With your logic, are you saying that everyone who has a FiiO L3 or L9, or similar LOD connectors just wasted their money on a cable that has doesn't do anything beneficial?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

You could overload the second amp. They're designed to accept only a certain amount of input from a source - not the amount of power that comes from another amp. At best, you'll increase distortion. At worst, you could cook off something inside the second amp.

Edited by miceblue - 3/11/13 at 2:36pm
post #1573 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

True, the frequency response is fairly flat, but the iPhone's amp still has distortion, which does add some sort of colouration (frequency response isn't the whole story).

With your logic, are you saying that everyone who has a FiiO L3 or L9, or similar LOD connectors just wasted their money on a cable that has doesn't do anything beneficial?

 

If you'd read Uncle Erik's response again, he basically just said what I said... in a different way: you could still overload the second amp. Or in other word, if the second amp is not able to cope with the level of the first amp, then it could still distort. But if the second amp can cope with the first amp's level, then it should be fine. And... we're talking about an iPhone here. iPhone doesn't have the most powerful amp section, so it most likely won't be able to deliver that much power. If in doubt, you can just use the volume control to drop the volume on the iPhone.

 

You'd be right, though, if we were talking about double-amping with something like, say... an O2 as the first amp and the E12 as the second amp, and the O2's volume pot was pushed to max on high gain. I admit double-amping is bad in some cases, but it's not bad in all cases.

 

And no, I'm not saying that they wasted their money. A direct line-out (LOD stands for Line-Out Dock in case you haven't realized) is still better most of the time, as it's less likely to overload the second amp, and you don't have to fiddle with the volume control on the device.


Edited by Bill-P - 3/11/13 at 3:02pm
post #1574 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 

Yep. But not all double-amping is bad. The iPod Touch 4 and iPhone 5 have been measured to have a relatively flat frequency response, so there is no undue coloration in the amp section (except for extreme impedance mismatch cases). You most likely won't run into impedance mismatch with double amping when the second amp (that's connected to the headphone) is significantly better than the first (the one that's inside the device) because the input impedance of the second amp is significantly larger (the damping factor would be so large that it's way off the point of audible distortion).

 

All that's left is to consider whether the second amp has enough power (voltage or current) to deliver the listening level coming from the first amp. It's basically like you're enabling the gain switch on the E12. Nothing more.

 

That's as far as I know. Of course, I'd love to know if you have research data that points to the opposite effect (that double-amping is actually bad in all cases).

 

Double amping:

I think the real answer is: it depends.

I like the idea of NOT having two volume controls to play with.

It's impossible to come up with definitive answer unless you have some stats on the first headphone amp and the second headphone amp, in the case of an iPod or iPhone was is the line out like compared to the headphone jack?

What's in the lightning cable?   I've heard the Lightning cable has a DAC in it.  Does anyone know?


Edited by Chris J - 3/11/13 at 3:13pm
post #1575 of 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Double amping:

I think the real answer is: it depends.

It's impossible to come up with definitive answer unless you have some stats on the first headphone amp and the second headphone amp, in the case of an iPod or iPhone was is the line out like compared to the headphone jack?

What's in the lightning cable?   I've heard the Lightning cable has a DAC in it.  Does anyone know?

 

Some have provided measurements, and it seems the iPhone or iPod clips out at around 1V output through the headphone jack. I don't think that's enough voltage to really cause the Fiio E12 to clip.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

 

And did you mean the lightning to 30 pin dock adapter? I'm sure that one comes with a Wolfson DAC built in, while the iPhone has a Cirrus Logic DAC.

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