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FiiO " Flagship " portable amp Mont Blanc/E12 discussing thread. - Page 93

post #1381 of 3074
Well this is all speculation so lets just wait til we start hearing some actual reviews here
post #1382 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

If C5 improves upon C421, then I suspect it'll actually sound very different from O2, because C421 is smoother and more spacious than O2 to me.

The C5 uses the same standard op-amp as the C421 (OPA2227), but that's all I'm saying about the C5 for now.

If you're looking for C5 information, your best bet would be in the appropriate C5 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/new-jds-labs-c5-portable-amplifier-pre-order-now-open-pg10-for-details


Edited by miceblue - 2/24/13 at 1:08am
post #1383 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

The C5 uses the same standard op-amp as the C421 (AD2227), but that's all I'm saying about the C5 for now.

If you're looking for C5 information, your best bet would be in the appropriate C5 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/new-jds-labs-c5-portable-amplifier-pre-order-now-open-pg10-for-details

thanks

post #1384 of 3074
*facepalm*
What is the title/topic of this thread again?

Ps listening with the E12 and HE-400 headphones over the past 2 days, seems like an adequate combo and works great for Massive Attack, but on all my amps I feel like the headphone is a bit less comfortable on long listening sessions. I consider the HE-400 a "forward" headphone (reminds me of a Super Grado SR60) with heavier bass pressure especially (kind of a V-shaped freq response), so the E12 is suitable in my experience across the "forward & fun" HE-400, the neutral (ish) balance of the Q701 and Etymotic ER•6i, and the cold, analytical sound of the Audio Technica AD700. The difference between headphones is much greater than I'm hearing between quite different amp designs.

The Q's are still my favorite headphone, but I'm going to give the HE-400+E12 combo another listen now while I make some breakfast.
post #1385 of 3074

1st post, I have tracking info for the E12. I should have it by the end of week can't wait. I'm currently using an E17 with the DT-990 Pro 250 Ohms. I hope that it makes a good pairing fingers crossed.

post #1386 of 3074
Welcome to head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!

Should be quite good. If you use your E17 as a DAC, you can still pair it with the E12 using a line-out adapter made for the E17 (sold separately). Having just listened to the HE-400 till what was left of my E12's battery (last charged a week ago or something), the sound (with bass boost on) is noticeably fuller, thicker, and articulate than the much thinner-by-comparison sound of my iPod's headphone jack. The HE-400 is pretty similar to the DT990 as far as freq graphs are shaped. I think the HE-400's are too much for me though, heh heh...
Edited by Evshrug - 2/24/13 at 8:19am
post #1387 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by kskwerl View Post

Compared to the O2? it's warm like jock strap on a hot summer day in Alabama. I mean there's no sense in even trying to compare it to the O2. Warm, colored, congested in terms of comparing it to the O2. IMO, this may be bias coming from the O2 but it's just too far from neutral for me. I just got it and I'll do some more testing but I think I'm going to go back to the O2/ODAC combo

LOL!
Thank you very much for the mental image!
post #1388 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Welcome to head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!

Should be quite good. If you use your E17 as a DAC, you can still pair it with the E12 using a line-out adapter made for the E17 (sold separately). Having just listened to the HE-400 till what was left of my E12's battery (last charged a week ago or something), the sound (with bass boost on) is noticeably fuller, thicker, and articulate than the much thinner-by-comparison sound of my iPod's headphone jack. The HE-400 is pretty similar to the DT990 as far as freq graphs are shaped. I think the HE-400's are too much for me though, heh heh...

Thx for the welcome, tell me about it! Getting ready to spring for the Trinton Three's yikes lol. Was going to sell the E17 may keep it now thanks to your suggestion.

post #1389 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

*facepalm*
What is the title/topic of this thread again?

Ps listening with the E12 and HE-400 headphones over the past 2 days, seems like an adequate combo and works great for Massive Attack, but on all my amps I feel like the headphone is a bit less comfortable on long listening sessions. I consider the HE-400 a "forward" headphone (reminds me of a Super Grado SR60) with heavier bass pressure especially (kind of a V-shaped freq response), so the E12 is suitable in my experience across the "forward & fun" HE-400, the neutral (ish) balance of the Q701 and Etymotic ER•6i, and the cold, analytical sound of the Audio Technica AD700. The difference between headphones is much greater than I'm hearing between quite different amp designs.

The Q's are still my favorite headphone, but I'm going to give the HE-400+E12 combo another listen now while I make some breakfast.

So in other words, the E12 sounds good with any headphone then? XD

The E12 should provide more than enough power for the HE-400's with 850 mW at 25 Ω. It takes 337.92 mW of power to get the HE-400's to 120 dB SPL, which should be plenty loud even for the most dynamic music genres.

post #1390 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

So in other words, the E12 sounds good with any headphone then? XD
The E12 should provide more than enough power for the HE-400's with 850 mW at 25 Ω. It takes 337.92 mW of power to get the HE-400's to 120 dB SPL, which should be plenty loud even for the most dynamic music genres.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been saying all along. And true, the HE-400's don't require much power to reach a quite loud SPL, but as I'm sure Chris J could elaborate loudness isn't everything. He provided me with this very insightful link: http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance

The HE-400's definitely sound much fuller with E12+L11 LOD than straight from my iPod's headphone jack, even though the iPod only needed about 50% volume setting to drive the HE-400's loud enough. If I hadn't heard the E12 with other headphones (and hadn't noticed I had left the bass boost on) I would think the E12 was very warm, but instead I use the word "full" because it really... well, I don't want to get into subjective platitudes, but vs a weaker, cheaper amp, the E12 brings out the character of a headphone more.
post #1391 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

So in other words, the E12 sounds good with any headphone then? XD
The E12 should provide more than enough power for the HE-400's with 850 mW at 25 Ω. It takes 337.92 mW of power to get the HE-400's to 120 dB SPL, which should be plenty loud even for the most dynamic music genres.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been saying all along. And true, the HE-400's don't require much power to reach a quite loud SPL, but as I'm sure Chris J could elaborate loudness isn't everything. He provided me with this very insightful link: http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance

The HE-400's definitely sound much fuller with E12+L11 LOD than straight from my iPod's headphone jack, even though the iPod only needed about 50% volume setting to drive the HE-400's loud enough. If I hadn't heard the E12 with other headphones (and hadn't noticed I had left the bass boost on) I would think the E12 was very warm, but instead I use the word "full" because it really... well, I don't want to get into subjective platitudes, but vs a weaker, cheaper amp, the E12 brings out the character of a headphone more.

Heeeey I remember reading this wiki some time ago, it's a very useful wiki indeed (I actually made a comment about it in the comments section). :D

 

iPod vs LOD+E12 probably sounds different because the iPod simply cannot output as much power as the E12 at a given volume level to keep a clean waveform. Sure it can get loud, but you'll probably start getting a clipped waveform with the iPod before the the E12; "fuller" might describe this (clipping as in, even if the RMS/average volume level is fairly low, the amp might not supply enough voltage to reach the music's dynamic peak-to-peak voltage and instead clips the waveform). That plus the specs of the iPod's amp are unknown, that I know of, so for all I know, the iPod could have a ton of THD whereas the E12 has very little [I'm not making any claims, just an example of something that can affect the sound].


Edited by miceblue - 2/24/13 at 1:13pm
post #1392 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Heeeey I remember reading this wiki some time ago, it's a very useful wiki indeed (I actually made a comment about it in the comments section). :D

 

iPod vs LOD+E12 probably sounds different because the iPod simply cannot output as much power as the E12 at a given volume level to keep a clean waveform. Sure it can get loud, but you'll probably start getting a clipped waveform with the iPod before the the E12; "fuller" might describe this (clipping as in, even if the RMS/average volume level is fairly low, the amp might not supply enough voltage to reach the music's dynamic peak-to-peak voltage and instead clips the waveform). That plus the specs of the iPod's amp are unknown, that I know of, so for all I know, the iPod could have a ton of THD whereas the E12 has very little [I'm not making any claims, just an example of something that can affect the sound].

 

Hey, thanks for the comments guys!

 

Yep, hard to believe a wee little iPod has enough output voltage and current to drive a lot of these fairly inefficient headphones that we like so much.

 

But then who buys HE-400s or HD650s or DT880/600 Ohms just to use it with an iPod? That's just my opinion, but I would assume that average $300 and up headphone owner agrees.

 

There was a post I read somewhere (can't remember where, not sure how true it is) where someone said that he thinks most people don't listen any louder than 90-95 dB average level. Not sure how true this is, but if it is true then enough power to reach 110 dB SPL should be enough

post #1393 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Heeeey I remember reading this wiki some time ago, it's a very useful wiki indeed (I actually made a comment about it in the comments section). :D

 

iPod vs LOD+E12 probably sounds different because the iPod simply cannot output as much power as the E12 at a given volume level to keep a clean waveform. Sure it can get loud, but you'll probably start getting a clipped waveform with the iPod before the the E12; "fuller" might describe this (clipping as in, even if the RMS/average volume level is fairly low, the amp might not supply enough voltage to reach the music's dynamic peak-to-peak voltage and instead clips the waveform). That plus the specs of the iPod's amp are unknown, that I know of, so for all I know, the iPod could have a ton of THD whereas the E12 has very little [I'm not making any claims, just an example of something that can affect the sound].

 

Hey, thanks for the comments guys!

 

Yep, hard to believe a wee little iPod has enough output voltage and current to drive a lot of these fairly inefficient headphones that we like so much.

 

But then who buys HE-400s or HD650s or DT880/600 Ohms just to use it with an iPod? That's just my opinion, but I would assume that average $300 and up headphone owner agrees.

 

There was a post I read somewhere (can't remember where, not sure how true it is) where someone said that he thinks most people don't listen any louder than 90-95 dB average level. Not sure how true this is, but if it is true then enough power to reach 110 dB SPL should be enough

Yup, and that's probably why Tyll has the "Power Needed for 90 dB SPL" measurement in his headphone measurement charts. Most headphones don't require gobs of power to power, but it's useful for those loud listeners out there and for very dynamic music.

post #1394 of 3074

Yep, some things are indeed a bit over rated.

 

For example if a headphone states:

 

95dB SP/mW and the headphone is 65 ohms

 

Then all it is saying is that you need 1mW @ 65 ohms to produce 95dB of Sound pressure.

 

 

---Ignore--

 

Panda mess up


Edited by bowei006 - 2/24/13 at 5:24pm
post #1395 of 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Yep, some things are indeed a bit over rated.

 

For example if a headphone states:

 

95dB SP/mW and the headphone is 65 ohms

 

~nothing happened here~

Er...ampere is the unit of measure for current. I think you meant voltage instead of amperage; and lower impedance headphones typically require more current, less voltage.


Edited by miceblue - 2/24/13 at 5:28pm
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