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FiiO " Flagship " portable amp Mont Blanc/E12 discussing thread. - Page 78

post #1156 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by pngwn View Post

So I ran my E12 down from a full charge last night and came out to about 11 hours. Not sure where I read 17 from. Not a bad run, I guess, but I think I'm just feeling a little spoiled from my BH's battery.

 

It depends on the gain, volume as well as what kind of load you are running the amp to. Low impedance (such as CIEM) or high impedance (such as >250ohm) load tend to suck out more power as the former demands more current while the later demands more voltage. I have ran E12 over 12 hours on two different times on typical 32ohm load on normal volume myself.

 

I am not implying BH is bad in anyway - but law of physics stated that you can't spend more energy than you have. The reason FiiO can't put 100 hours of battery life (i.e. E7) into E12 is because E12 is outputting a lot more power than almost any portable amp in the market now, and those power needs to come from somewhere. The only solution is to cut down power (which voids the design goal of a portable that is capable of driving some of the hardest load) or increase the battery size (which voids the 'portable' part of the amp). If you are getting 100 hours of battery life, then the logical question is, how is it possible to get such an exceptional battery life without compromising other aspect in the design? It is optimized for battery life or driving power? It is not an issue of right or wrong, but the designer's goal and how well it performs to the demand.

post #1157 of 3246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

 

It depends on the gain, volume as well as what kind of load you are running the amp to. Low impedance (such as CIEM) or high impedance (such as >250ohm) load tend to suck out more power as the former demands more current while the later demands more voltage. I have ran E12 over 12 hours on two different times on typical 32ohm load on normal volume myself.

 

I am not implying BH is bad in anyway - but law of physics stated that you can't spend more energy than you have. The reason FiiO can't put 100 hours of battery life (i.e. E7) into E12 is because E12 is outputting a lot more power than almost any portable amp in the market now, and those power needs to come from somewhere. The only solution is to cut down power (which voids the design goal of a portable that is capable of driving some of the hardest load) or increase the battery size (which voids the 'portable' part of the amp). If you are getting 100 hours of battery life, then the logical question is, how is it possible to get such an exceptional battery life without compromising other aspect in the design? It is optimized for battery life or driving power? It is not an issue of right or wrong, but the designer's goal and how well it performs to the demand.

 

Thanks for the explanation, any designer have to make decision between the size, performance, battery life, cost and some other things. the battery capacity of the build in battery is equal to 2400mAh@3.7V, the output power is 850mWx2, compare with our old E7, it is 1100mAh and the battery life is

 

about 100 hours and the output power is about 150mW X 2.  

 

BTW, the LME49600 can change to another working mode which will consume even more power but the sound will be even better, but the battery life will drop to less than 10 hours. there are not secret in the analog electronics technical , the true is that usually better sound quality need more power

 

unless you choose digital amplifier which still can't compete with analog amplifier so far.

post #1158 of 3246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyaems View Post

when is this DIY version coming out? im waiting L3000.gif

 

Not decided yet. too many project now. 

post #1159 of 3246
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


A delay circuit... A relay that causes a delay between amp & load...
It's six or half dozen.

Anyway, along with Craigster's suggestion about utilizing Head-Fi feedback, you would probably get a better idea about the "majority" vote about something like a bass-boost setting by listing the pros/cons of both choices (like you did with the power output and charging behavior), and then setting up an actual poll. You'll probably have more people participate in voting, and it'll be easier for you to count votes. For example, by my count, since your posted question on page 63 a week ago, 7 different people have asked for more bass boost, 12 different people said they like it as-is, two people only mentioned they would like more adjustability options (like the E6's system). Nobody who has owned/heard the Mont Blanc has been unhappy with the bass. Now, the number of people who have commented in the week since you posted the question may not be a large enough sample size to draw conclusions, but the point I'm trying to make is you're making a change based on a vocal minority. If you do want to ask consumers about future changes, using a polling system will help you keep your head above bias... A statistician could help you even more (which I am not).

As far as your decision about changing the bass boost... it doesn't actually affect me, because I already have a Mont Blanc the way I like it. I'll just have to note the change in my review so other people will know I have a limited production design.

 

Always  listen to our user, that is why I spend so many time on head-fi.

post #1160 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

 

Always  listen to our user, that is why I spend so many time on head-fi.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to us minority with low-fi headphones bassheads.

post #1161 of 3246
...
Double post
Edited by Evshrug - 2/12/13 at 9:00am
post #1162 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoMee View Post

Thank you for taking the time to listen to us minority with low-fi headphones bassheads.
I've never suggested that about bass-heavy headphones, nor has anyone else in this thread. In fact, the HE-400, DT990, and Phiathon headphones were all pointed out as high quality headphones that are widely considered to have strong, great quality bass. I can back that up, too, showing how the singular sound aspect of bass was not dismissed as unimportant. I'll even add now that many closed headphones have awesome bass and sound quality, for example the highly regarded Denon D7000.

In my case, just because I think "choosing a headphone with the signature you like plus an amp that adds little color is the best way to get the desired sound signature" and a balanced amp suits the widest number of people, does not mean your personal taste preference is wrong.

I've read posts about people who really seek out "fun" colored music experiences, and specifically one was very happy with the Beyerdynamic DT990 600 ohm + E09k pairing. This E12 is suitable for an even wider audience, a portable basically on par with the desktop experience, and I think most people except the most extreme bassheads will be happy with the moderate sub-bass lift of the current boost and be able to just leave it on. I also think that shifting over the boost peak will still not satisfy those that want the boost quantity of the digizoid ZO, while also making the boost something that is "more fun" yet something they'd use with fewer songs & genres. Still use it, but not leave it on all the time.

In my mind, i guess that the spread of how many people are of a taste is like this:
AnalyticalDark>Bass-Heavy
Do I have hard data to back that? Nope. But the majority of products (hp, DAPs, DACs, & especially amps) I see are pretty centered on the Balanced part of the scale, though also common is a moderate amount of the "smile-shaped" frequency response that typically trades a little ear fatigue for extra "fun" involving sound, a little more bass warmth while also lifting a bit of treble to keep from sounding dark. I often see us consumers switching between balanced and "fun" to keep from being bored or pained over time, and those that further pursue the hobby often own headphones of both kinds simultaneously.

Maybe some people will like an amp that can EQ a "balanced" headphone to sound "fun" and be able to switch with a bass boost, and maybe the new boost will do that for some. But I think that the people with a need for an amp that can power hard-to-drive headphones and can be used portably are the kind of people that will own several headphones, now or later, and the sub-bass boost would suit a wider range of headphones.

Anyone is free to make a compelling argument for a different perspective, that's cool, but lets keep it copacetic?
Edited by Evshrug - 2/12/13 at 8:16am
post #1163 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

It depends on the gain, volume as well as what kind of load you are running the amp to. Low impedance (such as CIEM) or high impedance (such as >250ohm) load tend to suck out more power as the former demands more current while the later demands more voltage. I have ran E12 over 12 hours on two different times on typical 32ohm load on normal volume myself.

I am not implying BH is bad in anyway - but law of physics stated that you can't spend more energy than you have. The reason FiiO can't put 100 hours of battery life (i.e. E7) into E12 is because E12 is outputting a lot more power than almost any portable amp in the market now, and those power needs to come from somewhere. The only solution is to cut down power (which voids the design goal of a portable that is capable of driving some of the hardest load) or increase the battery size (which voids the 'portable' part of the amp). If you are getting 100 hours of battery life, then the logical question is, how is it possible to get such an exceptional battery life without compromising other aspect in the design? It is optimized for battery life or driving power? It is not an issue of right or wrong, but the designer's goal and how well it performs to the demand.

A rather complicated topic!

Assuming you are always listening at the same SPL, gain has nothing to do with power consumption. (I am assuming if you turn the gain up then you turn the volume down).

Power consumption has more to do with headphone efficiency, obviously a less efficient headphone will require more power to generate the same SPL than a high efficiency headphone.

In addition, the E7 will be more efficient when driving the same headphone to the same SPL as the E12 because the E7 has a lower operating voltage (lower battery voltage) than the E12. Hence you are losing more power (less efficient) when you are operating an amp with more potential output voltage.
post #1164 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

BTW, the LME49600 can change to another working mode which will consume even more power but the sound will be even better, [...]

It would be a REALLY nice&special "DIY" E12:
- Bass boost switch
+ Superior sound quality

Yeah, I like how it sounds. biggrin.gif
post #1165 of 3246

I sincerely have not returned to create a flame war as accused by some other members who did not appreciate my personal opinion in regard to the size. As a result I have added these few people to my Block list , not so that I take offence but so as to spare them from becoming unnecessarily vehement as a result of my replies.

 

The objective of forums are for injections of personal opinions which equate to Reviews. One review may differ to another and who is to say which one is more correct than the other ? So if a reviewer provides a poor review of a device, should this reviewer expect Administrative retribution as others have implied ? If so then how can anyone trust the integrity of that Site ?

 

I still stand by my impression that this device is too large for my purpose and that's not breaking any Forum Rules. Other's may consider it to be canine testicles from Northumberland and that's their own personal opinions, yet there are some others who also consider this device to be "huge" in comparisons.

 

Whether James take heed or not of my opinion its his prerogative, either way it is of no matter.

To submit personal attacks because you do not agree to others opinions should warrant Administrative notification,

post #1166 of 3246
post #1167 of 3246

Why do we need another E12 thread?

 

Note to JaiSan: they'll get over it. Like you said, it's just an opinion.


Edited by Chris J - 2/11/13 at 9:14am
post #1168 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Why do we need another E12 thread?

 

Note to JaiSan: they'll get over it. Like you said, it's just an opinion.

 

Perhaps not, but this thread is full of back and forth pre-production banter, where bowei's thread is a review.  I think it's a good idea to start a new thread sooner than later, cuz the M-100 thread for example is rather..... unruly with 800 pages in a year. Admittedly this thread is much cleaner and shorter, but for the sake of having all the useful post-production info in one spot, I personally don't think it's a bad idea. 


Edited by Apo0th3karY - 2/11/13 at 9:22am
post #1169 of 3246

I didn't make a new(actual) thread. It's a review.


Edited by bowei006 - 2/11/13 at 9:37am
post #1170 of 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

I didn't make a new(actual) thread. It's a review.

 

Say what?

Then it should have been posted in reviews.confused_face_2.gif

 

You did title it the "...Review and Help Thread".

 

Anyway, it's your thread and you're free to do whatever you like with it.

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