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Dark Knight FAIL - another CD mastered with excessive gain - Page 2

post #16 of 79

Here we go...Track No. 9

 

The retail version (same as CD and HDTracks):

1000

 

What it should look like (Proper master!):

1000

 

Comparison:

1000

 

The BLACK waveform is the original at the SAME volume level as the proper master in DARK GREEN.

 

What does this mean?

 

It means that had it been a proper master, there would have been a 9.6db difference in average volume meaning the retail version is severely limited/compressed in it's dynamic range.   frown.gif

 

What else does this tell you?

 

It also tells you that high resolution (24/192) etc doesn't mean jack if it is not mastered PROPERLY!!!!  angry_face.gif

 

This has been a public service announcement by LFF.


Edited by LFF - 7/22/12 at 10:32pm
post #17 of 79

i bet these songs if you could isolate them in the movies lossless audio track would have all that glorious DR that we want...why would they ruin it for the cd :(

post #18 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF View Post

What does this mean?

 

It means that had it been a proper master, there would have been a 9.6db difference in average volume meaning the retail version is severely limited/compressed in it's dynamic range.   frown.gif

 

What else does this tell you?

 

It also tells you that high resolution (24/192) etc doesn't mean jack if it is not mastered PROPERLY!!!!  angry_face.gif

 

This has been a public service announcement by LFF.

This is why we can't have nice things. triportsad.gif

post #19 of 79

Could one do something with the 24/192 from HDTracks to save the music, or is it 'destroyed' ? :(

 

 

By the way, the soundtrack is not that bad :) (not from audio quality but from music quality)

I happen to find it very interesting, although Hans Zimmer is very repetitive in his last few soundtracks...if you listen carefully you'll recognize some elements from 'The Last Samurai', 'Pirates of the Caribbean' and 'Inception'.

If you like Hans Zimmer, you'll like this one too, BUT it could have been better ... just my opinion and my two cents...

 

cheers,

 

Abe

post #20 of 79
I'm a big fan of the Inception soundtrack. I think he had some of his most awesomely original tracks.
post #21 of 79

Yeah me too :)

 

After re-listening to it, there are even similarities with some of Steve Jablonskys works, Transformers for example (not far away since they both work together, if my memory serves me correctly).

But even some Tron-ish styles are there ^^

 

I start to dig it ^^

 

 

cheers

Abe

post #22 of 79

Glad I only bought the 24/96 version I guess. :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rath1on View Post

This is why we can't have nice things. triportsad.gif

post #23 of 79

Check out Harry Gregson-Williams.

He's done soundtracks for a lot of games, including MGS4, and I hold him to the likes of Hans Zimmer on some counts. He's German too. :P

post #24 of 79
Thread Starter 

Thanks Morbid Toaster and LFF - for saving the money I would have wasted at HDTracks.  

 

I really appreciate your feedback!  

 

Mike

post #25 of 79

Head-fi: We waste money do you don't have to. :|

 

PS: You've been added to the Texas Head-fier list. You'll probably get PMs about meets from time to time. :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

Thanks Morbid Toaster and LFF - for saving the money I would have wasted at HDTracks.  

 

I really appreciate your feedback!  

 

Mike


Edited by MorbidToaster - 7/23/12 at 6:56am
post #26 of 79
Thread Starter 

Abe,

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeSapien View Post

Could one do something with the 24/192 from HDTracks to save the music, or is it 'destroyed' ? :(

 

[snip]

 

The information that's lost to clipping is lost forever.  It's analogous to a photograph that has overexposed areas.  Once you go to pure white, there's no way to recover any detail or texture from those areas.  The best you can do is an interpolation from surrounding data.  

 

If the clipping were short enough in duration, the gap could be interpolated, perhaps, using data on either side of the gap, including ascending and descending slope angles to estimate the height of the original peak, but the original data is lost forever and interpolation would be of little value when you have clipping (gaps) as long in duration as seen with these tracks.  

 

Mike

post #27 of 79

Could the issue be that they're going from DD TrueHD and DTS-MA lossless 7-channel 24/96 and downmixing/downsampling to 2-channel 16/44.1, so it's simply too much going on?  I noticed that, even on The Dark Knight OST, really busy tracks like "Like a Dog Chasing Cars" (Track 8) tended to get muddy.

post #28 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

Abe,

 

 

The information that's lost to clipping is lost forever.  It's analogous to a photograph that has overexposed areas.  Once you go to pure white, there's no way to recover any detail or texture from those areas.  The best you can do is an interpolation from surrounding data.  

 

If the clipping were short enough in duration, the gap could be interpolated, perhaps, using data on either side of the gap, including ascending and descending slope angles to estimate the height of the original peak, but the original data is lost forever and interpolation would be of little value when you have clipping (gaps) as long in duration as seen with these tracks.  

 

Mike

Indeed and that's what sucks about over-compression/limiting. Once it has been done, it cannot be undone.  angry_face.gif

post #29 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar3 View Post

Could the issue be that they're going from DD TrueHD and DTS-MA lossless 7-channel 24/96 and downmixing/downsampling to 2-channel 16/44.1, so it's simply too much going on?  I noticed that, even on The Dark Knight OST, really busy tracks like "Like a Dog Chasing Cars" (Track 8) tended to get muddy.


Absolutely not.

 

The mixing for each soundtrack should be done separately and usually is. Even if done for 16/44.1, there is more than enough soundstage and headroom to let everything happen in a smooth, natural and dynamic way. If it sounds muddy...it's the crap mastering!

post #30 of 79

Thank you so much for this post. I consider myself new to the audiophile world and i've been doing a lot of reading in recent months. This post motivated me to do further research on dynamic compression and just how bad it is with modern music. This really is a case where you could say ignorance is bliss. 

 

I have a lot of modern music in my collection and agree that a lot of it is harsh and fatiguing to my ears, but now i know the reason for it. It kind of makes me sad now that i know this... a lot of my favourite songs have pretty terrible compression, makes me want to slap the producers.

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