Originally Posted by Extra
Gah, I've always tried to avoid these type of threads, but 'd just like to say something. If Beats users enjoy their Beats, whether they know their not that great or not, than why not just let them be? Some of the bashing i've seen here is quite uncalled for and I've even read some comments where users wanted to be violent with beats users or their headphones, just cause they were wearing Beats headphones. And the Nazi reference, which I really hope was a joke, is taking it way too far.
I'm not saying Beats are good headphones, if anyone is thinking that at this point, but if someone enjoys using their headphones, that's honestly great for them in my opinion. They found something they enjoy, and I'm not going to berate them for their choice. A lot of people aren't worrying about if their Beats are technically better than other headphones, their just trying to enjoy the music, and in the end, isn't that what we should all be doing?
But I'm often reminded by some other members that the average AGE on head-fi has slowly but surely been going down as serious headphones become more popular to younger users. Those darned 14 year olds can't help themselves - they're just so angsty and hormonal.
Originally Posted by KimLaroux
The problem here is not that beats makes over priced headphones, it's the marketing practices used by beats. They use unbelievable lies in every ads. They use (read: pay) celebrities to advertise their headphones while making it look like those people actually chose to use them. They dumped dizzying amount of money into spamming agencies that created spam accounts on the internet to publish blog post, blog comments and forum replies that look like legitimate users recommending beats to other users. Just like for their cables, the resellers make up to 500% profit for every beat headphone they sell, and beats will send them more cash if they sell a lot. So not only is beats hyping their headphones, but all the resellers down the chain also do it, even if they know beats are over priced. All this makes the beats hype look like a grass root movement, which the blind consumer, mostly teens, embrace without questions. Do you really want Sennheiser to go that route?
Oh and by the way, there are regulations regarding blog posts and celebrity endorsements of products. http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm
The problem is the line between legitimate recommendation and endorsement is often subjective. And by the time the FTC opens a case against a compagny, the work is already done. I can only dream of a full case against beats that will bring them to their knees, with news coverage explaining how everyone was fooled.
You're describing every mass-marketing campaign and political campaign of the last 5 years (and Sennheiser also does this
), including the 2008 Obama campaign, and both current "political revival" movements in the US (the Tea Party and the 99%). It's all engineered and constructed on some level, because it all has a profit-motive in sight. Why should we just stop with the Beats productline as this big bogey man? Because we're 14 and dislike the "cool kids" and need to show them up? Or did they actually do something to wrong you, on some level?
I'm not really disagreeing with you either, I just think that if we're going to start calling a spade a spade, let's not stop when it comes to the trough, fig, and so on. And if we really want to get to the "root" of it, let's not even stop there - let's just call it a bloody shovel and be done with it!
Originally Posted by ssrock64
I don't like bashing threads either, and every time it goes that direction I try to steer it away. This thread is about two things: false advertising practices (I prefaced it with Beats because they were the most easy to find lies from), and preventing other people from falling into the trap so they can be more satisfied with something else. I am not recommending that the literature I made be handed out to current Beats owners, because I know that all that does is foster animosity towards the audiophile community and re-affirm their choice. There's nothing wrong with liking Beats. However, we just want to forewarn people who may take more pride and more enjoyment from different cans, especially those people who are genuinely looking for good audio but don't know where to turn in this world of marketing and hype.
THAT is what this thread it about.
And it hasn't gone in that direction at all, it's just turned into an out and out hate-fest targeting a single company and their customers that further fuels the generally immature reactions that the "community" provides to outsiders. There's no point in attacking someone's choices or personal property, especially unsolicited, and I agree with you on that, but there's also no point in going around pissed off all the time.
Honestly, Beats Audio is not the only company out there using seemingly deceptive marketing practices and being less than honest in their drive to the top. But they're the only ones that people seem to get upset about - "I was scammed by Beats Audio and deceived into thinking this was good sound!" - but when it comes to $30,000 power cables, $100,000 amplifiers, $1,000,000 turntables, and so on; nobody bats an eye. "No you don't understand the R&D process and how expensive those products are to design!" "They only build a few a year, labor is expensive!" "You haven't heard it, you can't know!" etc
It's an unrealistic double standard. Either condemn everyone who engages in shill marketing and price gouging to the detriment of their customers, or accept it as reality and continue turning a blind eye to it. But if you choose the second path, don't get pissed off when someone is smart enough to re-write the formula. And that's where I see this coming back to the political discussion (which I did not want to even think about) - it's all fine and well to complain that "everything is messed up" - but either take it a step further or just go back inside and settle down. This "protest and riot" jag that young people are hooked into today is getting to the point where people want to start flipping cars over just for the sake of flipping cars over. In my day, we didn't light couches on fire just to watch them burn - there was usually a bit more provocation behind the riot.
To be completely candid (in case you haven't gotten it): it's getting old.
Originally Posted by Extra
I understand that this thread was about what you just said. I also don't agree with Beats marketing, and I wasn't directing that post towards the original post, but towards the people who just go "beats suck, and their users are stupid $%&* who know anything about audio" (yeah I know it's not that bad sometimes, just generalizing the comments). I appreciate it when people calmly and professionally try to inform Beats users, it's just that some people go to far and start blindly criticizing Beats and other "fashion" headphones, along with their users. And like you said, this type of behavior leaves a bad impression of what a typical audiophile is like.
+10 to this too. I don't even see the need to "inform Beats users" (and why the hell are they a separate demographic group now?!) - if it were legitimately any other product, the "if it sounds good, it is" adage would win the day. But with Beats all you get is "No, you're a moron; ATH-M50/HFI-580/XB500 is better!" (except usually without the attention to grammar or punctuation, so it just comes out looking like someone smashed their face into the keyboard and threw up on the way back up in an incoherent bout of blind rage).
And just to prevent any hurt feelings: I'm not meaning to cast aspersions on anyone here. I'm just too irked to not get the old soap box out.