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Anything more neutral than the MDR-V6 for $170 budget? - Page 2

post #16 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva108 View Post

I appreciate the help man, but the reason I'm going purely by frequency graphs is to find which one is objectively the most neutral.

 

Btw, am I right in interpreting the KRK 6400 as more neutral than the SRH840s? (testing my graph reading abilities)

 

The problem with that is the method they use to measure headphones is sketchy at best. There's no way to say absolutely which is more neutral, because of a number of variables. The way the headphones sit on the ears, the shape of the ears, and the algorithm used to correct for the acoustics of real ears all contribute to less-than-perfect measurements. Most "ballpark" neutral headphones will be totally sufficient for studio and professional use anyway, it really all comes down to familiarity with the headphone.

 

EDIT: To give you an idea of what I mean by the acoustic corrections, here are two different graphs for the same headphone: the Sony MDR-XB700's.

 

This graph would lead you to believe they are quite flat:

700

 

This graph tells a different story:

700

 

And your own hearing might give you a completely different idea of how it sounds.


Edited by Kukuk - 7/21/12 at 12:59am
post #17 of 61

wow the krk 6400 FR looks very good for the price.

 

Not much bass roll off and no glaring treble spikes. 

post #18 of 61
Thread Starter 

@Kukuk, The thing is man, these are going to be my first good headphones. I haven't ever heard ANY good audio gear let alone neutral headphones. To put things in perspective, the best audio gear I've listened to are the earphones that came with my Fuze and they sound magical since everything else I've listened are extremely horrible PC headphones.

 

So I don't have any personal reference point when it comes to neutrality. That's why I'm going by frequency graphs, even with the inconsistencies, I feel they are my best bet, especially since there are no stores where I live (Sri Lanka) that lets you listen to gear before buying them, not that it would matter since I don't have a reference point anyway.

 

So yeah, out of the Headroom graphs, which is the most neutral?

post #19 of 61

I gotcha, just saying that sometimes impressions from other members may offer a better insight for how a headphone sounds than frequency response graphs.

 

Judging from the graphs, the KRK's in particular might offer you better bass extension than the AKG's. If you feel they'll be seeing a lot of sub-bass (rumble) from your music, they might be worth picking over the AKG K271's. The AKG's, based on the graphs, look to offer better isolation. I can personally vouch for their ability to block outside noise extremely well, too. The KRK's also look like they'd have a warmer sound compared to the K271's, judging from how close to the neutral line their treble regions are. That typically means they'd offer a little less detail (Though, of course without hearing them I can't say for sure).

 

For sheer neutrality, if you feel you can sacrifice isolation, and if you have a decent amp, the AKG K601's could be a solid bet. They measure incredibly flat, and sound very neutral as well.

700

 

If you're really not interested in open headphones, all your choices seem solid, so I don't think you'd be too disappointed.

post #20 of 61
Since this are your first headphones, are you really sure you want a neutral headphone?
Don't get me wrong here, but sometimes, u may want u hear more bass, 3d effect, etc. E.g. Movies etc give u the best experience via some coloured hp.
If u r a budding audiophile ... then it's perfect. A neutral hp even EQ-ed can't really mimic sound signature of a boom box can for example.

I use coloured headphones for my movies, and yes, listening to music, i use both...flat and coloured...both have different qualities.
Just sharing...
Edited by valerianaoff - 7/21/12 at 4:19am
post #21 of 61
Thread Starter 

@Kukuk,Those K601s seem flat as hell, but I really need the isolation since I'll be using them on the move.

 

@valerianaoff, Yep definitely want a neutral. I hate overemphasized/underemphasized anything. I'm more of a quality over quantity kinda guy, so I'd be happier with sufficient tighter, cleaner bass than a whole lot of muddy bass.

 

One other thing...

 

I compared the SRH-840, KRK 6400, SRH-940 and HF5 first, and overall the HF5 was flattest in highest number of regions (the KRKs won in the highs).

 

Then I compared the HF5 to the SRH440, DT250 and K271 and the SRH440 was flattest in highest number of regions

 

Then I compared the SRH440 to the MDR-V6 and... the V6 comes out on top! This is the exact same result I got before I made this topic.

 

Btw, by regions I mean the frequency ranges for sub-bass, low midrange, midrange and so on.

 

So am I reading these graphs wrong? Or are the V6s indeed the flattest among all of them.

(Edited coz the V6 came on top of the 440s after I took another look)


Edited by Siva108 - 7/21/12 at 5:17am
post #22 of 61

The K601 is more neutral than the MDR-V6, KRK 8400, Brainwavz HM5, and K271 to my ears. Its flatness makes it seem boring sometimes with music, but I still love it. Great headphones for watching movies too. Too bad you need isolation.

post #23 of 61
Thread Starter 

I know man, that's one hell of a graph there, but I'll be using them in traffic and pretty much everywhere I go, so isolation is a must.

post #24 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva108 View Post

@Kukuk,Those K601s seem flat as hell, but I really need the isolation since I'll be using them on the move.

 

@valerianaoff, Yep definitely want a neutral. I hate overemphasized/underemphasized anything. I'm more of a quality over quantity kinda guy, so I'd be happier with sufficient tighter, cleaner bass than a whole lot of muddy bass.

 

One other thing...

 

I compared the SRH-840, KRK 6400, SRH-940 and HF5 first, and overall the HF5 was flattest in highest number of regions (the KRKs won in the highs).

 

Then I compared the HF5 to the SRH440, DT250 and K271 and the SRH440 was flattest in highest number of regions

 

Then I compared the SRH440 to the MDR-V6 and... the V6 comes out on top! This is the exact same result I got before I made this topic.

 

Btw, by regions I mean the frequency ranges for sub-bass, low midrange, midrange and so on.

 

So am I reading these graphs wrong? Or are the V6s indeed the flattest among all of them.

(Edited coz the V6 came on top of the 440s after I took another look)

Kukuk's point about graphs is very valid I think. I've seen two different v6 graphs. One was very flat and the other, from a Japanese website, was entirely different. It looked exactly the way they sound to my ears....boosted treble with big broad dip in the 200hz region. I know it's very frustrating to buy without first auditioning since I'm in the same boat. There's no shops near my home where I can audition phones either. I do extensive research of reviews....especially here on headfi, and I've rarely been disappointed in a purchase. If you get a chance you might want to have a look at the extensive review in Sound on Sound magazine of phones for mixing in the studio. It's in a back issue from over a year ago, but it should be available on their website. They give pretty extensive reviews of both closed and open phones. The 440 came out very close to the top in the closed phones, only beat out by the sony 7509HD, which is supposed to be the upgrade to the 7506/v6. They even preferred the 440 to the shure 840, which is often recommended as a 'neutral' studio phone. Do some searching of this site too, and you'll find that the v6 is pretty polarizing. Lots of folks love them but an equal amount of folks have a big problem with them. They're probably as polarizing as the k70X! 

post #25 of 61

I found a 7506 graph with the dip:

 

 

700

 

 

K271 graph from the same site:

 

700

 

 

The first k271 graph I've seen without a huge bass drop off. I also found three different graphs for the K601 and all of them look similar. Then I realized a lot of open headphones are similar in graphs on different sites, but closed headphones can differ greatly, especially in the bass frequencies.


Edited by staticfi - 7/21/12 at 11:26am
post #26 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kukuk View Post

This graph would lead you to believe they are quite flat:

700

 

This graph tells a different story:

700

 

I disagree. To me these graphs looks extremely similar. A lot of people have been getting the wrong impressions from these black/red FR graphs (can't remember what site they're from). They are essentially stretched out horizontally (or "squished" vertically) compared to the headroom graphs. If you read them properly they typically match the headroom graphs almost exactly.

 

Edit- On second thought, the bass does look different relative to the mids and highs. Just be careful comparing these graphs from different sites. When you are used to headroom's graphs the red/black ones always look very neutral but its only because 1 vertical unit on the red/black graphs is equivalent to 4 vertical units on headroom's graphs.


Edited by devhen - 7/21/12 at 11:41am
post #27 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

I disagree. To me these graphs looks extremely similar. A lot of people have been getting the wrong impressions from these black/red FR graphs (can't remember what site they're from). They are essentially stretched out horizontally (or "squished" vertically) compared to the headroom graphs. If you read them properly they typically match the headroom graphs almost exactly.

 

Just look at how the bass is relative to the other frequencies. Doesn't matter how you space the frequencies out, if the bass regions are boosted, they should be well above the rest in the black graph.

 

Another example of how these measurements can me sketchy, this time apples to apples: This graph is from the K701's:

700

http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/k701.html

 

This one is from the XB700's:

700

http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/mdr-xb700.html

 

You can't tell me it would be accurate to say the K701's have more bass than the XB700's, can you?

post #28 of 61

I agree that its hard to get reliable information from FR graphs as to how a headphone will sound to you, I was just pointing out that these particular graphs are setup quite a bit different from headroom's and it makes comparisons quite difficult. It also makes some things hard to discern such as the bass response in the two graphs you posted. And headroom's graph setup and measurement methodologies seem to be more accurate in regards to bass. In fact, all 3 graphs from that site that you've posted seem to show a complete failure on their part to accurately measure bass response.

 

700


Edited by devhen - 7/21/12 at 11:54am
post #29 of 61

What about this KRK 8400 graph on headroom:

 

700

 

That one makes me scratch my head. I bet anyone who has heard that headphone will agree the measurement seems off in the lower end. One of the reasons why I don't trust frequency graphs for headphones. 

post #30 of 61

I guess all I was trying to say was... can you know how a headphone will sound to you based on FR graphs alone? No. Can you learn a lot about a headphone's sound based on FR graphs that are from a reliable and accurate source? Absolutely. Do you hate huge 8-10k treble spikes? FR graphs can help you avoid those. Do you want a headphone that doesn't have rolled off lows? Rolled off highs? FR graphs can go a long ways to helping you with this.

 

I just don't like hearing that FR graphs are useless. If you understand them and you understand the imperfections that are inherent in any headphone measurement methodology then you can absolutely use FR graphs to learn a lot about a headphone's sound. Not everything. But a lot.

 

Of course, its always much better to try the headphones out for yourself if at all possible but not a lot of people have that option when searching for headphones in which case accurate FR measurements are the next best thing.

 

Edit-- Scratch that. Asking knowledgeable, unbiased people who have experience with the headphones is the next best thing. :) But FR graphs can provide you with information if you know how to approach them. For one thing you'll always want to compare multiple graphs. The bass measurements of those red/black graphs looks pretty whack but for example, on the 8400s, Tyll's graphs might prove more accurate in terms of bass response but I still think there are things you can learn from both graphs.

 

Tyll's KRK 8400 graph:

700


Edited by devhen - 7/21/12 at 12:19pm
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