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Face off: Senn HD600 with Clou Cable Blue vs. Sony CD3000 (long). - Page 3

post #31 of 41
Vka



Quote:
I have already said that perhaps the words echo and reverberation is too strong of a word to use. But if you listen very very carefully, don't you find that the sound in the cd-3000 tend to stay a bit longer giving it alot of ambience.






Yes, it did stay longger, but it is because CD3000 picks up very minute detail of recording. Hint: 103 db/mW of sensitivity... I think what you heard are the weak signal of the source which is very difficult to reproduce by other cans. Even I can hear hissing sound which had been generated by mic or mic amp or other devices from good quality CD.

Good recording uses less dynamic and tonal control devices.



Others





Ear cup also play important role to isolate/absorb and equalizing the tonal balance. When the cups removed, sure the sound characteristics also changed, but there are some part of it doesn't changed or changed a bit such as the treble. Another experiment that I want to do near future, is to remove the sponge pad and make the cup empty.











Now I am listening to OGG format of "The Pink Panther" theme songs from "Mancini's Greatest Hits" performed by Erich Kunzel and Cincinati Pops Orchestra. Telarc CD-80183. (1989).







The triangle sound's sweet, sax sound's realistics, at the end of the songs, there are about 5 seconds of fading drum's hi-hat/overhead left over sound that can be heard, and that sounds are produced by 10 years old cans. Try that with other cans...

Lastly, like mbriant said
Quote:
Some of that difference is due to differences in the size and shape of our outer ears.
Then, some cans fits/suits to others and some don't. So there are no same PERFECT headphone to everyone. Everthing is up to our mind. If we like it, and try to love it, sure you will find it will be the BEST your yourself. I admit that I am also don't likes CD3000's stinggy/ringging/abbrasive or too brite treble sound at first, but after a while, I can adapt to it bit by bit (ear burn-in) and gambled to modified it.

By the way, do you know that, Sony also use bio-cellulose diagphrams for TWEETER's in SS-A3, SS-A5, SS-A7 speakers series back in 1990?
post #32 of 41
mbriant and bakhtiar,
you are right, of course: there are always those darn head related transfer functions. But are they really sufficient to explain our different preferences? With circum-aural headphones at least, you have quite a lot of interaction with the outer ear. So this would primarily leave things like shape of head or shoulders, wouldn't it? What I don't see is the necessity to take hearing damage into account.

One more thing about HRTF's: I remember reading a brochure from the Ergo headphone people in Switzerland, where they printed graphs from measurements done with tiny microphones in real-life human ear canals. They showed response to an impulse signal. Their point was that impulses reach the ear canal basically in two stages, the second being a reflection caused by the outer ear. And those impulse response graphs looked very much individual, with different delay between the two peaks and very different "mountain ranges" in general. Usually this delay was about 0.2 ms, but the range of individual response was somewhere between 0.15 to 0.25ms, if I remember correctly.

My hypothesis would be that you are more than half-way there with a circum-aural design, if you want to take head related transfer functions into consideration. Anyways: mbriant, it would be great if you could shed some more light on this HRTF issue!
post #33 of 41
Tomcat: It's going to take me a while to retrieve the article I've referred to from a storage locker but I will as soon as I have time.

I imagine the difference between a natural sound source, be it a human voice or an instrument, reaching our ears after travelling through the air from various distances....and a sound source the size of a coin, in extreme proximity to our ear canal ( like a headphone transducer) would be enough to drastically change the effect the outer ear has....even if the headphone is circum-aural.

Thomas, in the related thread he started, contends that the distance between the headphone transducer and the ear causes the most noticable difference. I think I agree with him. Any of us will notice considerable sound shifts when we ever-so-slightly move the headphone earcups toward or away from our ear. Even slight lateral movements are noticable. The same sort of changes are noticed when alternative pads are installed on any given headphone. I'm assuming that this very noticable effect is also related to outer ear reflections.....in addition to earpad seal.

Thomas further contends that the "burn in" improvement many people notice, is sometimes, possibly due to the earpads conforming to our head/ears better and therefore changing the ear/transducer distance, and improving the seal.
post #34 of 41

Nerudddddddaaaaaa, you got mail!

I sent you an official Head-Fi message. At least I think thats what I did. Unless PM stands for post menopausal in which case you probably just had a hot flash.
post #35 of 41
LOL!
post #36 of 41
Just a quick follow up for completeness sake. My esteem for these phones contiues to grow the more I listen.

The CD3000s have officially replaced the HD600 as my weapon of choice. I think my mental "break-in" period with the CD3000 is over. This is an addicting sound that just gets more enjoyable.

When I trade back and forth between them, I just can't believe how "muffled" and distant the HD600 sounds. I start lusting for the Sonys again after a few minutes with the 600s and off they go! I'm getting where I prefer the Sonys on almost any recording, good or bad. It does much better on many more CDs in my collection than the HD600. I would say they are good all-around phones for almost any musical style.

I think I can confirm that you will need a good source with these. It's quite a revealing phone with unmatched palpability. If you're feeding them doo-doo, they're gonna give you the clearest picture of doo-doo you've ever seen. You've just got to hear good, full-range modern recordings on these phones! Pretty amazing.

If anyone is considering the CD3000s I recommend the ZOTL as an amp. Great combination-- synergy!

markl
post #37 of 41
markl, I feel the same way about the HD-600s in relation to my Grados. The HD-600s sound very distant to me now. But your comments regarding the Sonys have me wondering again. I would like a good pair of closed cans.........my wife still complains about the noise coming from the Grados.
Of all the 'headphones, other than Grado, that I listened to at the NYC show, the two that stood out were the Stax Omegas and the Sony MDR-CD3000. I just may have to take the plunge. I have a Creek OBH-11 and an MG-Head DT.................do you think they would be a good match. I really don't want, or need, another stationary amp, I'm into portable. Thanks.
post #38 of 41
hey mark, I just copied your review into the featured reviews forum. I'm sorry it took me so long, I gues I just think to do it before. I've deleted all the posts save for your two followups.
post #39 of 41
Very cool. Thanks Neruda.

joelongwood,
As I touched on in the review, the CD3000 provides no more "isolation" than the open HD600. I'm not sure they would help out your spouse. (But don't let that stop you! Just tell her you bought them strictly for HER benefit, thoughtful person that you are. It's not your fault it turns out they leak sound so much!)

Check it out with the MG Head. I've never heard the unit, but if I had to generalize, I'd be willing to bet that tube amps are better with the CD3000s. If nothing else you can tube-roll and "tone control" for best synergy with the Sonys.

markl
post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by markl
When I trade back and forth between them, I just can't believe how "muffled" and distant the HD600 sounds. I start lusting for the Sonys again after a few minutes with the 600s and off they go! I'm getting where I prefer the Sonys on almost any recording, good or bad. It does much better on many more CDs in my collection than the HD600
Well Markl, I have to admit that your experience has also made me feel better about my CD3000 choice. With all the headwizin and head-fi'ing one is always wondering if the last purchase was as good as possible.

I have to agree that the CD3000 are a joy to listen to.
post #41 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by joelongwood
Of all the 'headphones, other than Grado, that I listened to at the NYC show, the two that stood out were the Stax Omegas and the Sony MDR-CD3000. I just may have to take the plunge. I have a Creek OBH-11 and an MG-Head DT.................do you think they would be a good match. I really don't want, or need, another stationary amp, I'm into portable. Thanks.
I find the Creek to be an excellent match for the CD3000s, it's warm sound complements the detail of the CD3000s in a very nice way. I've been listening less and less to my Grados since getting the Sonys.
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Face off: Senn HD600 with Clou Cable Blue vs. Sony CD3000 (long).