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Fostex T50RP Incremental Mods and Measurements - Page 59

post #871 of 2259

I actually never saw any DBV#3 measurements. Since BMF says the difference between #2 and #3 is slight, I was basing my comment off of his measurements on the first page.

post #872 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanjiWatsuki View Post
 

The DBV#3 showed up with a somewhat recessed treble in the Rin Choi measurements, though, didn't it?


Is there any confirmation who put that exact set together?

post #873 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post
 


Is there any confirmation who put that exact set together?

 

Unfortunately not. That said, the measurement makes sense even with what BMF's measurement rig shows.

 

For example, BMF's rig shows that LCD-2 measuring almost flat into the treble ranges. In almost every single other measurement, the LCD-2 rolls -5 to -10dB from 1khz to the lower treble frequencies [0]. Thus, I think BMF's rig is tuned such that it over-emphasizes the treble frequencies on its graphs.

 

[0] http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Rev2.pd

post #874 of 2259
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by "nick View Post


Is there any confirmation who put that exact set together?

 

Good point. I don't know but it has been for sale on ebay for several weeks.

 

___________________________________________________________

 

I tried to multi quote but the system's not working for me. so...

 

@  SanjiWatsuki: I agree with you. The graphs I generate Do over-estimate the treble. I always state that measurements are specific to the particular "kit" and user, as well as method used. Standardized procedures and using the scientific method are musts but the standard error of measurement is Big. There is no room for generalizing from my basic measurement kit and graphs to anyone else's.

 

To be meaningful, each DIY Guy has to do what you did - calculate a correction offset - for arriving anywhere close to meaningful interpretation of the graphs. That is The Reason I posted my LCD2 graph that came from Audeze, my DIY measurement of the same headphone, and measurements of All Stock T50/40/20RP. I collected all FIMMs data on two consecutive days and did my best to make all measurements as standardized as possible.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

"Laws of DIY Modification and Measurement"

 

1. Measurements are nothing more than approximations and cannot be directly compared to others' measurements.

2. Measurements will not necessarily tell you how a headphone will sound.

3. The "Initial Build is only the Beginning" and will likely require Tuning.

4. "The devil is in the (micro) details" when modifying headphones.

5. Seemingly insignificant variations in weight, size, type of materials, and implementation often result in Obvious significant variations in SQ and measurements.

6. A Reference headphone is essential during tuning trials or you're just guessing.

7. Make only One tuning change at a time or you're guessing by a factor of 10.

8. There are no Slam Dunks...it takes time and patience to get it right.

9. Enjoy the process or buy "ready-made."

10. Remember there are many paths leading to the same destination...and a lot more dead ends!

11. "Give more than you take."

 

Best to All,

 

BMF

post #875 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

Your experience seems to jive with my suspicion: it acts as a treble dampener as well as an overall muffle (requiring more volume). Thanks for sharing!

 

I don't recommend cutting the dust covers off of the velours because the increase in treble doesn't complement the muting in the bass caused by the velours. But the 840 pads might not have that problem. I needed to do it regardless because of my discomfort. The treble sounds the slightest bit hot now, and I'll have to do something about that. Maybe some tape on the baffle cover?

post #876 of 2259
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

I don't recommend cutting the dust covers off of the velours because the increase in treble doesn't complement the muting in the bass caused by the velours. But the 840 pads might not have that problem. I needed to do it regardless because of my discomfort. The treble sounds the slightest bit hot now, and I'll have to do something about that. Maybe some tape on the baffle cover?

 

Hmmm, you could try paxmate around the ear side of the driver, applied directly to the baffle face.

 

You could try thin cotton or thin fiberglass Under the pads' dust covers, if you didn't remove them. 

 

You could try a small piece of Micropore or Transpore over the ear side of Part of the driver.

 

Or, some combination of these....or.....

 

Good luck!

post #877 of 2259

After myself reading some of this thread, one wish that someone at Fostex would read it.

 

They produce one of the best orthodynamic drivers, but then, do not know how to properly implement them in a headphone.

post #878 of 2259
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWIN View Post
 

After myself reading some of this thread, one wish that someone at Fostex would read it.

 

They produce one of the best orthodynamic drivers, but then, do not know how to properly implement them in a headphone.

Thank you but I have no doubts that Fostex well knows how to implement/damp their drivers in all their headphones. I believe Fostex developed T50RP and the other 'phones in the series for a specific purpose - as a tool for audio engineers much like a specific type of wrench for auto mechanics. Fortunately for us, we are able to take their audio tool and modify it for a different application - audiophile sound reproduction for our listening pleasure (and DIY modification fun).

post #879 of 2259

I just want to say thank you to everyone who put this together. I bought a pair of t50rp cans and the supplies to mod them. When I first got them I tested them stock and good lord they sounded TERRIBLE. I could tell there was tons of detail there but it was like there were pillows between the headphones and my ears. I honestly didn't have a lot of hope after hearing them but decided to try the mods anyway. After about two hours of working on it I had completed all the DBV #3 mods. It was a little sloppy with the felt and ladder rungs but boy oh boy these cans are incredible!! I was speechless with the changes that these cans underwent. I still need to tune them a bit (just to my ears, no measurement mics or anything), but they remind me of my much beloved Sennheiser HD-580's except with the detail and speed turned up to 11. I'm so pleased because I really wanted to buy some HD-600's when I got back into audio but the finances really wouldn't permit it. With these I feel like I'm not missing a single thing. So again, thank you guys for all your hard work and posting the results on these mods so others like me can follow it and get great results right away.

post #880 of 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post
 

 

Good point. I don't know but it has been for sale on ebay for several weeks.

 

___________________________________________________________

 

I tried to multi quote but the system's not working for me. so...

 

@  SanjiWatsuki: I agree with you. The graphs I generate Do over-estimate the treble. I always state that measurements are specific to the particular "kit" and user, as well as method used. Standardized procedures and using the scientific method are musts but the standard error of measurement is Big. There is no room for generalizing from my basic measurement kit and graphs to anyone else's.

 

To be meaningful, each DIY Guy has to do what you did - calculate a correction offset - for arriving anywhere close to meaningful interpretation of the graphs. That is The Reason I posted my LCD2 graph that came from Audeze, my DIY measurement of the same headphone, and measurements of All Stock T50/40/20RP. I collected all FIMMs data on two consecutive days and did my best to make all measurements as standardized as possible.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

"Laws of DIY Modification and Measurement"

 

1. Measurements are nothing more than approximations and cannot be directly compared to others' measurements.

2. Measurements will not necessarily tell you how a headphone will sound.

3. The "Initial Build is only the Beginning" and will likely require Tuning.

4. "The devil is in the (micro) details" when modifying headphones.

5. Seemingly insignificant variations in weight, size, type of materials, and implementation often result in Obvious significant variations in SQ and measurements.

6. A Reference headphone is essential during tuning trials or you're just guessing.

7. Make only One tuning change at a time or you're guessing by a factor of 10.

8. There are no Slam Dunks...it takes time and patience to get it right.

9. Enjoy the process or buy "ready-made."

10. Remember there are many paths leading to the same destination...and a lot more dead ends!

11. "Give more than you take."

 

Best to All,

 

BMF

 

Nicely said.  I would add one more:

 

12) A modification often changes multiple aspects of the sound. Solving one problem can create others:like music, it's the harmony of changes that creates the sound.

post #881 of 2259
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post
 

 

Nicely said.  I would add one more:

 

12) A modification often changes multiple aspects of the sound. Solving one problem can create others:like music, it's the harmony of changes that creates the sound.

Absolutely! Thanks for contributing and correcting my over-sight.

 

13. Un-intended consequences from a single modification tweak may be favorable, or not.

14. Think outside the box: "Take anyone's modification configuration and Make it Your Own" by trying 'different' materials...and report your results - good or bad. A case in point: nick n's Make up Remover Pad - PlastiDip modification he shared with me and I posted at the bottom of Post #1 in this thread.

15. Add your own, here________________________.

16.



BTW, Nick n's mod is in the "Good" category.... no, it's In the "Great" category.
Edited by bluemonkeyflyer - 1/15/14 at 6:25pm
post #882 of 2259

also

 

Don't work too far in one direction and get tunnel vision, try something the exact opposite to shake it up or you risk pigeonholing because "it's supposed to work" or "this damned thing this WILL WORK no matter what".

 

Be sure walk away for a day and do no listening after a round of mod testings.

 

I dunno I find that helpful.

post #883 of 2259

What BMF said in #6 was my best lesson. Don't rely on your memory. If you have another set of headphones that you generally like, make a point of listening to them routinely for comparison purposes, to uncover the relative merits of your mods. Sheesh, the number of times that I thought I was making improvements, only to realize I had been sliding backwards and sideways over successive mods!


Edited by micmacmo - 1/15/14 at 8:10pm
post #884 of 2259

BMF is awesome! Great work.........if you guys haven't tried the modded T50RP with an Emotiva Mini, I highly recommend it.....takes them to a whole other high level.....they suck up quite a bit of power......10-11 on the mini! Impressive power, clarity, and richness......

post #885 of 2259

It's an interesting thing about the T50.  It "wakes up" when there is a lot of power to spare.  

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