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Fostex T50RP Incremental Mods and Measurements - Page 36

post #526 of 1224
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TekeRugburn View Post

I would like thank BMF for this amazing mod as I have absolutely been floored since applying it to my t50rp's.  I'm still lost for words, but let me put it the simpliest way I can.... after listening to it for past how many days constantly.... I have been on the fence of selling off every other single piece of headphone gear I have.  

 

I can't wait to fine tune these with a measurement kit.  I have applied the DBV mod on one pair of T50rp's and the Rock wool mod on another set.  I will post impressions in a few days...if I ever get to it instead of just blissfully enjoying it in a zombie like trance. L3000.gif

 

Now I am excited about building the sunrise II amp as per his recommendation to pair with the t50rp.  Been constantly selling off excess "fluff" gear just to raise the funds for it.

 

Been wanting to recable the t50rp's but deadly scared that it will mess up the harmony it has right now.  Always have preffered a dual entry than a single entry.

 

used t50rp's with shure 840 pads .... 80 bucks

modding materials.....20 bucks

old shoulder strap pad off an old laptop messenger bad .... free

scrunchies at dollar tree.... 1 dollar

 

audio bliss achieved at a level that thousands of dollars worth of other audio gear has failed...priceless

 

 

 

Congrats. I'm happy to hear you like your DBV3. 

post #527 of 1224
Thread Starter 

Improved Grodan Rock Wool Mod 

 

I've been playing around with Grodan rock wool for a couple of months. This one's easier to build and uses fewer components than the one I posted last year. Rock wool is a little easier to standardize than cotton and fiberglass. Sounds real good to me; almost as good as DBV #3 but I'm not done trying a few other ideas. YMMV, etc. 

 

Preliminary config with pictures found in Post #1 of this thread, after Graph 55. 

 

Most (all?) of the same tuning methods that work with DBV3 should work with this one. I suspect tuning methods are pretty much universal no matter what the config, but that's just a guess.

post #528 of 1224
Thread Starter 

TekeRugBurn,

 

You may have missed my post about a new Phantom Power Supply design by solderdude. This is the one you should consider building. Scroll down to Reply #101. I built it and It's cheaper and quieter than the one I've been using. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TekeRugburn View Post

I would like thank BMF for this amazing mod as I have absolutely been floored since applying it to my t50rp's.  I'm still lost for words, but let me put it the simpliest way I can.... after listening to it for past how many days constantly.... I have been on the fence of selling off every other single piece of headphone gear I have.  

 

I can't wait to fine tune these with a measurement kit.  I have applied the DBV mod on one pair of T50rp's and the Rock wool mod on another set.  I will post impressions in a few days...if I ever get to it instead of just blissfully enjoying it in a zombie like trance. L3000.gif

 

Now I am excited about building the sunrise II amp as per his recommendation to pair with the t50rp.  Been constantly selling off excess "fluff" gear just to raise the funds for it.

 

Been wanting to recable the t50rp's but deadly scared that it will mess up the harmony it has right now.  Always have preffered a dual entry than a single entry.

 

used t50rp's with shure 840 pads .... 80 bucks

modding materials.....20 bucks

old shoulder strap pad off an old laptop messenger bad .... free

scrunchies at dollar tree.... 1 dollar

 

audio bliss achieved at a level that thousands of dollars worth of other audio gear has failed...priceless

 

 

post #529 of 1224
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post

TekeRugBurn,

 

You may have missed my post about a new Phantom Power Supply design by solderdude. This is the one you should consider building. Scroll down to Reply #101. I built it and It's cheaper and quieter than the one I've been using. 

its just getting harder and harder to find time though... ill check it out.  wish there was some pre-built one i could just buy

post #530 of 1224

Ok, so I know I said that I was going to sleep on it for a day or two before I made anymore changes, but as I listened to them this morning they sounded too dark to me. So I opened them up again and made some more changes. I added a US dime sized treble reflector between the driver and the stiffened felt. Also instead of the cotton roll material, I swapped it out for 7 of the Rite Aid brand cotton balls per side. The other day I had also bought some adhesive backed felt, so I lined the inside of the cups with it as well. After all said and done, the treble still isn't where I want it, and I think I actually dampened the cups a bit too much, because now everything sounds flat, boring, and even a bit muffled all across the board.

 

Right now I have decided to step away from them for a day or so. I am listening to my Q701 right now instead and I am enjoying the elevated upper mids and treble, and present but not elevated bass. If I can't get close to the same treble energy out of the T50rp, then I am afraid that I'll never be truly happy with them. My ideal tuning for the T50rp would be maybe 3db higher in the bass end and maybe 3db less in the top end when compared to the Q701. The mids could sound lush and slightly warm like the HD650 mids. In reality I may be asking for too much. I'm not giving up yet, but right now I just want to listen to music instead of tear them apart again. 

post #531 of 1224

I just want to start by thanking BMF for this incredible resource of knowledge, this is invaluable for any t50rp modder. Also, I'd like to thank BMF himself for helping me get started in this.

 

Alright, after several months of sticking with the same configuration, I decided to do some tweaking. My listening with these had been minimal, and for the last two months my friend had even been using them. My first tweak was to better compact the rock wool around the base of the cups, and add a little fluff around the rims. I decreased the amount of cotton in each cup, and made the amount in each cup more uniform. I put transpore tape over the bass port, and I closed all of the baffle ports, in an attempt to tighten up bass without sacrificing quantity.

 

So far: I may have inadvertently given it a bit too much treble, but wow is the sound refined. More listening will give further insight, but I like what I am hearing. As for my source I have simply been using my Sansa Fuze, which gives sound in a completely different league than my laptop, but at the same time I do need an amp. I want a dac/amp combo so I can listen with my laptop too, so I was looking at the E07k. Will this amp sufficiently power these things? I just wanted to get the opinion of the community, as these hp's are primarily the reason I am looking at a dac/amp.

post #532 of 1224
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHealth30 View Post

I just want to start by thanking BMF for this incredible resource of knowledge, this is invaluable for any t50rp modder. Also, I'd like to thank BMF himself for helping me get started in this.

 

Alright, after several months of sticking with the same configuration, I decided to do some tweaking. My listening with these had been minimal, and for the last two months my friend had even been using them. My first tweak was to better compact the rock wool around the base of the cups, and add a little fluff around the rims. I decreased the amount of cotton in each cup, and made the amount in each cup more uniform. I put transpore tape over the bass port, and I closed all of the baffle ports, in an attempt to tighten up bass without sacrificing quantity.

 

So far: I may have inadvertently given it a bit too much treble, but wow is the sound refined. More listening will give further insight, but I like what I am hearing. As for my source I have simply been using my Sansa Fuze, which gives sound in a completely different league than my laptop, but at the same time I do need an amp. I want a dac/amp combo so I can listen with my laptop too, so I was looking at the E07k. Will this amp sufficiently power these things? I just wanted to get the opinion of the community, as these hp's are primarily the reason I am looking at a dac/amp.

 

It's good to hear you're making progress with your mod and that this thread is helpful. FWIW, I posted what I consider an improved Rock Wool mod located in Post #1 of this thread after Graph 55.

 

Sealing the cup vents (back and bottom of cups) likely results in over-damping that knocks down bass and elevates treble. You could try making a 4 mm wide modified bass port at the cup vents. You can try this externally with a strip of masking tape placed over the cup vents. Temporary (external) and Permanent (internal) Modified Bass Ports are described and shown in pictures in Post #1 of this thread. Scroll down to Photo C for Temporary Modified Bass Ports and to Photos YY - DDD for Permanent Modified Bass Ports.

 

For a temporary bass port, apply your masking tape over the external cup vents. Make sure it completely seals the vents at all 4 corners. This can be done by cutting the tape along the cup vent "walls" and then pressing the tape down along the edges. Use an acute-angled, sharp pointed X-acto knife blade to make vertical cuts in the tape over one of the four cup vent slots, 4 mm apart. Cut along the bottom horizontal edge of the tape, between your vertical cuts, to make a "flap." Make sure all your cuts are Shallow so you don't cut through the stock black felt on the inside of the vents. Fold the tape flap up and hold in place so you can cleanly slice it off with the X-acto knife. Be careful so you don't slice your finger! You now have a 4 mm wide x 1.5 mm high modified bass port that will give you more bass than you have, now, and it will be nicely behaved bass.

 

IME, changing the modified bass port width by 1-mm increments allows you to dial-in bass Quantity:Quality. Making a modified bass port any wider than about 3/4 the width of one slot is essentially equivalent to no modified bass port at all = having all four cup vent slots "open" (except for the stock black cup vent felt over the inside of the vents). Of course, YMMV based upon your mod components or a totally different configuration. Changing the amount, size, weight, and type of your damping materials may obviate or dictate the need for a modified bass port.

 

Hope this helps.


Edited by bluemonkeyflyer - 5/6/13 at 8:25am
post #533 of 1224
Quote:
Originally Posted by TekeRugburn View Post

has anyone had any experience in recabling the t50rp?  Did it change the sound much?

Yep, had BTG Audio do a balanced dual input copper cable. That re-cable along with 840 pads made my pair absolutely sing on my EC ZDT balanced amp. Further mods always seem to require yet another tweek to counteract some negative impact.

 

For example, installed Alpha pads which immediately compromised lower mid detail and also made the treble seem off. Figured it was the bloated and looser bass overpowering the lower mids with some sort of frequency duplication affecting the treble. Now, thanks to BMF's more scientific approach we can all see the jagged treble response in the Alpha pads frequency plot. Others have been able to tune to the Alpha pads and if you think you're one of those others pm me for a deal on this pair.

 

Otherwise try the re-cable, and Brian at BTG will do it to your specs without stratospheric claims or pricing.   

post #534 of 1224

I would actually be very interested to know what other things have been tried to tame the DBV #3 when making the switch to Alphas. I just ordered some and I'm excited to see how they sound, but it is clear that they will not sound anything like they do with 840s.

 

BMF, have you done any fine tuning with Alphas?

post #535 of 1224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I would actually be very interested to know what other things have been tried to tame the DBV #3 when making the switch to Alphas. I just ordered some and I'm excited to see how they sound, but it is clear that they will not sound anything like they do with 840s.

BMF, have you done any fine tuning with Alphas?

For me the alpha pads are proving to be a pain in the ass to tune. I mean, they sound ok, but i definitely have more work to do. Next step is to take some cotton out of each cup, because right now they sound overdampened. Right now i have pretty much the whole inside of the cups lined with adhesive backed felt and seven of the Rite Aid cotton balls. Maybe 7 per side is to many. I guess ill try 5 or 6 per side and mess with bass porting.
post #536 of 1224
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post


For me the alpha pads are proving to be a pain in the ass to tune. I mean, they sound ok, but i definitely have more work to do. Next step is to take some cotton out of each cup, because right now they sound overdampened. Right now i have pretty much the whole inside of the cups lined with adhesive backed felt and seven of the Rite Aid cotton balls. Maybe 7 per side is to many. I guess ill try 5 or 6 per side and mess with bass porting.

Damn. It's sounding like I'm going to have to get another pair of these cans to try some incremental modding for the alphas... I'll have to see when they get here. Especially since I'm digging the 840 pads on my M-Audio Q40's...

post #537 of 1224
Try them first. You may like it.
post #538 of 1224
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post

I would actually be very interested to know what other things have been tried to tame the DBV #3 when making the switch to Alphas. I just ordered some and I'm excited to see how they sound, but it is clear that they will not sound anything like they do with 840s.

 

BMF, have you done any fine tuning with Alphas?

 

Not much. I don't think the Alpha Pad flaps are as resilient as 840 pads with their fabric backing and thread sewn along the edges. In order to try multiple tweaks, one at a time, the flaps have to hold up to mounting and un-mounting as many times as needed to find a mod combination that works. Using careful technique, I can accomplish this over 30 or 40 times before the 840 pads wear out. For $15.50 a set, 840 pads work for me. Alpha Pads cost 4 times as much so I'm less inclined to try to make them work as well as 840 pads with my mods. I will await reports from you guys about your results :) and wish you success.

 

Alpha Pads are super comfortable, though, like laying my head down on a feather pillow. Their comfort, however, comes with a price, IMO/IME. With my mods, Alpha Pads quickly roll off on both ends of the frequency spectrum and I personally prefer a slight U-shape FR. I was able to improve the bass roll off by making a 1 cm wide "Frame" of Paxmate Plus placed around the driver On the Ear Side of the Alpha Pads' dust covers.  I don't know for a fact, but my hypothesis is that Alpha Pads' greater internal pad chamber-to-head volume and greater distance from the ear may be responsible for the bass and treble roll off I get. The treble is pretty good with Alpha Pads with Paxmate Frames but remains uneven compared with 840 pads used with my mods...YMMV, etc.

 

FWIW, I also tried Paxmate Plus on the top, front, and bottom of Alpha Pads' inner walls, alone and in combination with the Paxmate Frame. For me, the Frame, alone, worked best.

post #539 of 1224

I've had my Alpha pads on and off at least a dozen times already and they seem to be holding up just fine. You just need to be slow and careful when taking them on and off. 

 

I took them apart again this morning and took one cotton ball out of each side and made the baffle port smaller again. I covered it with masking tape and then poked a tiny hole in it with a needle. The sound improved a little bit from those 2 things, a few minutes after this, I also tightened up the clamping force and that also made quite a noticeable difference. Clamping force seems to be very important with these. My Q701's don't even make a complete seal on my head and they make the right amount of bass, but I guess sealed headphones need more of a seal to sound right. I can definitely say that I am not hearing a bass roll off, the bass is definitely very extended with this current tuning. Maybe the strong clamping force has a lot to do with that. 

 

I still find these to be darker than my Q701, but I don't think thats going to change. I don't think they can ever be as bright and energetic as the Q701. The top end is still extended well, with lots of sparkle, but just not bright like the Q701. I guess once I can learn to live with that then I may be able to be happy with these. I guess I'll have a bright open headphone and a dark sealed headphone. 

 

We will have to wait and see if I change my mind again, but right now these are actually sounding pretty good. Listening to Opeth's Blackwater Park and they are actually doing quite well. Bass is impactful, but not overpowering, mids are warm and smooth, and the highs are present and sparkly, but not bright, harsh or sibilant. Kind of reminds me of an HD650 again.  

 

I've also said this before, but I will try to give them at least a few days in this tuning configuration and see if it grows on me or if I begin to hate it. Also, when I listen to these, I need to stop trying to imagine how it would sound on my Q701 instead. My Q701 has been my benchmark for so long now, that everything else seems to sound wrong, and that is not the right way to think about it. I need to get it through my head that two different sounding headphones can both sound good at the same time.


Edited by jasonb - 5/7/13 at 8:53am
post #540 of 1224

Just got the Alpha pads in. So far the biggest difference I notice is that the highs are much more fatiguing now (MUCH more forward and almost sibilant) and there is a bit of a noticeable bass rolloff... Has anyone tried removing the foam on the 840 pads (the foam between the driver and your ear) and putting them on the Alphas? My gut feeling is that the super thin material on the Alphas is what's causing the change in sound more than the shape of the pads themselves.

 

BMF - if you have any old 840 pads that are good for retiring, would you mind cutting that material out and laying it on the cup before putting on the Alphas to see if you notice a better change?


Edited by Thujone - 5/8/13 at 2:11pm
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