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Low output impedance dap for UM Miracles?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Hello head-fi,

 

  I received my miracles a few weeks ago and noticed that they sound nothing like what reviews of the miracles spoke of.  Most notably, the mids are very over emphasized quite fatiguing and I'm having a hard time finding a good eq setting to combat this.  I read in a different thread that output impedance on my J3 might be the problem so I'm looking for information on:

 

1.  What the output impedance of the J3 is

 

2.  What dap has lower output impedance than the J3

 

and possibly, how can I go about measuring output impedance?

 

or, if you could point me to sources explaining how headphone amps could help that'd be much appreciated.

 

Thank you.


Edited by Eudoxa - 7/14/12 at 2:25am
post #2 of 23

Well what is your price-range for a DAP? Have you considered a Sansa Clip? That may be a good option for you to consider. If you want to go high end look into the DX100 which has extremely low output impedance and can power hard to drive IEMs and fulls size cans. You could also get a good amp with low ouput impedance if you don't mind carrying around a small brick :P.
 

post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 

For now I'm trying to see what's out there.

 

Yeah, I hear the clip family is great but that's all I really know about so far.

I assume with a price tag like that the dx100 is the top of the price range...

 

I don't really understand if an amp will mitigate the problems I'm encountering with the J3 though.  There's a massive difference between my computer and my J3 and, even on my computer a difference between the jack on the card itself and the jack on the front panel that came with the card (I have an x-fi platinum).  The front panel has zero background noise and sounds great, while connecting directly to the card has hissing and sounds much like the J3.  So, it does sound like a problem with the source and not the iems. 

 

I still can't answer the question of whether the amp will act somewhat like that front panel and make the whole setup be "more compatible" with the iems or not.

post #4 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudoxa View Post

For now I'm trying to see what's out there.

 

Yeah, I hear the clip family is great but that's all I really know about so far.

I assume with a price tag like that the dx100 is the top of the price range...

 

I don't really understand if an amp will mitigate the problems I'm encountering with the J3 though.  There's a massive difference between my computer and my J3 and, even on my computer a difference between the jack on the card itself and the jack on the front panel that came with the card (I have an x-fi platinum).  The front panel has zero background noise and sounds great, while connecting directly to the card has hissing and sounds much like the J3.  So, it does sound like a problem with the source and not the iems. 

 

I still can't answer the question of whether the amp will act somewhat like that front panel and make the whole setup be "more compatible" with the iems or not.

 

 

I am sure it will help my friend. The problem is your Miracles aren't the easiest things to drive and the J3 may not be up to the task of powering multi-armature drivers (correctly) thus giving you poor performance. I've heard the J3 before and while it does have a decent amp section it's nothing comparable to a higher end DAP or a good portable amp can give you. If you power them adequately you'll get good results. Another thing to consider though is the fit of your IEMs. Are you sure you have a proper seal?


Edited by lee730 - 7/14/12 at 4:05am
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 

oh yeah, they fit quite nicely.  The only time they break a seal is when I stretch my face horizontally as in a wider than normal smile or if I voluntarily distort my face to cause movement of the ears.  Nice thing about these are I don't have to look like a fool and do the whole reach-around-the-back-of-the-head-and-pull-on-the-ear-thing.

 

So if I get a nice amp instead of a clip zip, the same end goal could be reached? Or is this a clip zip in addition to an amp?
 

post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudoxa View Post

oh yeah, they fit quite nicely.  The only time they break a seal is when I stretch my face horizontally as in a wider than normal smile or if I voluntarily distort my face to cause movement of the ears.  Nice thing about these are I don't have to look like a fool and do the whole reach-around-the-back-of-the-head-and-pull-on-the-ear-thing.

 

So if I get a nice amp instead of a clip zip, the same end goal could be reached? Or is this a clip zip in addition to an amp?
 


Now that I'm not 100% sure about. I've heard of others amping their cowons so you can give that a shot. I don't see any harm in it. usually though if you have a source with a dedicated Line Out it will maximize sound quality with an amp, but not a requirement by any means. I'm currently using the UHA6 MK II and am loving the sound. I opted for Op Amp 8610 because I love a bit of warmth and clarity to the mid-range. The UHA4 though is good for low volume listening without channel imbalance due to the digital pot. It also offers good headroom on volume adjustment as you raise the volume. Both of these amps also have a DAC so you can use it connected to your PC as well :).


Edited by lee730 - 7/14/12 at 4:48am
post #7 of 23

Originally Posted by Eudoxa View Post

 

There's a massive difference between my computer and my J3 and, even on my computer a difference between the jack on the card itself and the jack on the front panel that came with the card (I have an x-fi platinum).  The front panel has zero background noise and sounds great, while connecting directly to the card has hissing and sounds much like the J3.

 

What do you mean "front panel" ...

 

Some Cowons are very coloured and all over the place.

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

What do you mean "front panel" ...

 

Some Cowons are very coloured and all over the place.


Kiteki he probably means the front panel of his computer where his 3.5 jack is located. So he gets a lot of hiss connecting directly into his 3.5 Jack on his Xifi card while it sounds clean on the jack in front of his PC. I get a crap load of hiss from even my front connection on my PC so I don't use the card period for IEMs or headphones. I use my DACport LX/UHA6 MKII or O2 reference Amp for such things. But my Logitech Z5500s are happily powered by the Xifi card :).


Edited by lee730 - 7/14/12 at 5:10am
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

What do you mean "front panel" ...

 

Some Cowons are very coloured and all over the place.

http://2activedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/x-fi_fatal1ty.jpg

 

The thing on top of the card is the same as mine (minus the branding).

 

How do I tell if the amp would work well with my equipment?  Do I just have to try and see?

post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudoxa View Post

http://2activedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/x-fi_fatal1ty.jpg

 

The thing on top of the card is the same as mine (minus the branding).

 

How do I tell if the amp would work well with my equipment?  Do I just have to try and see?



Well you wanna make sure it has very low output impedance. Otherwise its gonna offset crossovers in your BA Merlins and you'll get mad hiss.

post #11 of 23

You can buy the Clip+ ($29), Teclast X19HD ($40), Colorfly C3 ($139) and Sony Z1050 ($279), decide which one you like the best with your UM Miracles, and then sell the other three.

 

That's your quickest answer.

 

The output impedance doesn't cause hiss, btw, and it's a little over-parroted lately.


Edited by kiteki - 7/14/12 at 5:26am
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

You can buy the Clip+ ($29), Teclast X19HD ($40), Colorfly C3 ($139) and Sony Z1050 ($279), decide which one you like the best with your UM Miracles, and then sell the other three.

 

That's your quickest answer.

 

The output impedance doesn't cause hiss, btw, and it's a little over-parroted lately.


I'm not so sure about that Kiteki. Generally when I hear hiss it is on high output sources. But I know its not the cause of all hiss. But in my case it has a lot to do with it. Not to mention high output sources do not play well with BA at all.

post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 

Right, I got the low impedance is good thing.

 

Thanks for the "quick answer".

 

I'm going to read about all the products you guys have introduced to me and make a decision then.

 

 

 

Thank you both.smile.gif

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 

Clip+ ($29)- my reference choice so far.  Has rockbox, sd slot, and the clip is generally loved by all.
Teclast X19HD ($40) - I think the clip is a better option with rockbox and sd slot.
Colorfly C3 ($139) - looks really bulky.
Sony Z1050 ($279) - love the gps option since I'm terrible at remembering names so I can never say explicitly where I am, but this can't do flac and requires mtp I imagine.  Still my number 2 choice out of these.

 

UHA4 ($200) - This is pretty...and the connectivity to the computer is cool.

 

 

 

yeah...between the clip and amp then.

 

is there a final word on double amping?  I hear amping from a J3 is a bad idea

post #15 of 23

My question is are you having issues just with your J3? Does your Xifi card exhibit the same behavior? I don't see amping the J3 to be bad if you do indeed need more power to properly drive your Custom IEMs. Did you also look at the Rocoo BA? Maybe read some reviews on it. Maybe someone has it and a Miracle. Seems the BA does quite well with BA IEMs. I really do love the sound of my BA and it does have a lot of power.
 

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