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Audio GD SA-31 head amp/ preamp . A powerfull Head Amp with Diamond Difference design . - Page 7

post #91 of 221
10/27/12 at 7:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Thing is, the E17 (a portable amp) could drive the DT990/600 about as loud as the SA-31 off those portables. It doesn't make any sense.
The 990 does get ear shatteringly loud when using the Mixamp to SA-31 or ODAC to SA-31 (albeit at just over the SA31's max volume on high gain). I distinctly remember the HE-4 needing a crapton more than anything else I've driven, even off the Lyr (though with plenty of headroom). This scares me. If the SA-31 needs to be nearly maxed to be at a loud volume.... I'm definitely not going to be happy. I expect this amp to have as much, if not more headroom than the Lyr. I'm beginning to think I chose the wrong amp.

As reported By clemmaster the fact is that some DAP , have a weak line out , E17 is a portable amp optimised to be used with such kind of device , for SA-31 seams that not . Regular Line Out are about 2.0V ... Some amp input are less or more sensitive . I experienced that too , with some weak DAP player i have to crank out the volume much more , but depending on wich DAP , Wich Amp it can offer very different results .

 

And DT-990-600 ohms and HE-4 don't have the same electrical requirement , wait for HE-4 for a final statement ^^


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 10/27/12 at 7:28am
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post #92 of 221
10/27/12 at 7:35am
That's why I've said that the HE-4 will be the deciding factor. Honestly, the SA-31 sounds amazing off the Mixamp and ODAC. I'm just disappointed that it didn't boost volume enough for my portables. I expected with all that power the SA-31 is claimed to have, to be able to drive stuff even off weak sources. This is definitely not the case. The Sansa Fuze can get really loud with the E9K. The SA-31? Nope. This is truly disappointing.

I don't have high hopes of it doing much better with the HE-4, but we'll see. I hope I'm surprised. The HE-4 is 38ohm, which should take in the maximum power that SA-31 is capable of.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/27/12 at 9:16am
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post #93 of 221
10/27/12 at 9:25am

You can ask Kingwa about adjusting the gain- it might be simple- I have done several mods to his gear with his direction without issue. He is very helpful in this regard.

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post #94 of 221
10/27/12 at 9:26am
I will try that. Thanks.
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post #95 of 221
10/27/12 at 9:46am

Don't confuse gain with overall power. For instance the E9/AD2K got louder quicker than my C-2 SA (6W@50ohm!!)-but the E9 sounded awful because of it's high output impedance as well, and the C2-SA sounded absolutely astounding. The best match I ever heard with my AD2000. And stop blaming your WEAK DAP/etc voltage out on the AGD. deadhorse.gif tongue_smile.gif

 

-Daniel

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post #96 of 221
10/27/12 at 9:57am
I'm comparing it to the Lyr, which had a lot of power and volume. So far, the SA-31 hasn't been as powerful as I'd hope in volume. Nothing other than the Mixamp and the PC to ODAC has been loud off it.

PS3
Sansa Fuze
3DS
Vita
Galaxy Note II

All have been maxed out on high gain.... and they're barely better than the source's volume. If the SA-31 is truly this finicky, perhaps I made a mistake. The DT900/600 is NOT hard to get to ear splitting levels. Even the E17 goes louder off those sources. Sound quality is worthless if it can't even go loud enough with the headphone and sources I'm using.

If it's the case of it not being good for high impedance loads, then I'll let it slide, and return the 600ohm for a lower ohm 990, but it's still a disappointment.

I really can't wait for Tuesday (it hasn't shipped yet which is odd... I wonder if that Hurricane Sandy is in the path of the delivery... argh). This wait is driving me crazy.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/27/12 at 10:03am
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post #97 of 221
10/27/12 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I'm comparing it to the Lyr, which had a lot of power and volume. So far, the SA-31 hasn't been as powerful as I'd hope in volume. Nothing other than the Mixamp and the PC to ODAC has been loud off it.
PS3
Sansa Fuze
3DS
Vita
Galaxy Note II
All have been maxed out on high gain.... and they're barely better than the source's volume. If the SA-31 is truly this finicky, perhaps I made a mistake. The DT900/600 is NOT hard to get to ear splitting levels. Even the E17 goes louder off those sources. Sound quality is worthless if it can't even go loud enough with the headphone and sources I'm using.
If it's the case of it not being good for high impedance loads, then I'll let it slide, and return the 600ohm for a lower ohm 990, but it's still a disappointment.
I really can't wait for Tuesday (it hasn't shipped yet which is odd... I wonder if that Hurricane Sandy is in the path of the delivery... argh). This wait is driving me crazy.

 

In your case, the low volume has nothing to do with the amp beeing restricted in power output. Changing your DT-990 to 250ohm won't change a thing.

Gain is what you lack with the SA-31 for your particular needs (portable sources). You might ask Kingwa about getting a higher gain for those sources (set high gain to 20-25dB).

 

With a proper line out source (any desktop dac in my case), I can't go past 14-15 on high gain with my HE-500 ;)

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post #98 of 221
10/27/12 at 10:35am
Well, on the PC->ODAC I get the DT990/600 to 40-50 before it's super loud. It's just other sources. Why is the headroom so small?
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post #99 of 221
10/27/12 at 10:35am

My DT770/600 with the little Fiio D03K DAC (fed by a cheap CD changer) gets to painful levels at about 30 on high gain with my SA-31.


Edited by tim3320070 - 10/27/12 at 10:38am
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post #100 of 221
10/27/12 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I'm comparing it to the Lyr, which had a lot of power and volume. So far, the SA-31 hasn't been as powerful as I'd hope in volume. Nothing other than the Mixamp and the PC to ODAC has been loud off it.
PS3
Sansa Fuze
3DS
Vita
Galaxy Note II
All have been maxed out on high gain.... and they're barely better than the source's volume. If the SA-31 is truly this finicky, perhaps I made a mistake. The DT900/600 is NOT hard to get to ear splitting levels. Even the E17 goes louder off those sources. Sound quality is worthless if it can't even go loud enough with the headphone and sources I'm using.
If it's the case of it not being good for high impedance loads, then I'll let it slide, and return the 600ohm for a lower ohm 990, but it's still a disappointment.
I really can't wait for Tuesday (it hasn't shipped yet which is odd... I wonder if that Hurricane Sandy is in the path of the delivery... argh). This wait is driving me crazy.

 

Hmm. I don know, it might just be the high impedance phone (I hope), I have no issues driving my pro 900 (I know they are not plannars, but) with a week NFB-16 and the DTS 7.1 converter (came with the turtle beach PX5s)

 

I cant tur either past 11 oclock, otherwise it gets too loud.

 

I wouldnt have imagined a gaming console struggling with phones :O

 

Do let us know how the low impedance HE-4 fare!


Edited by conquerator2 - 10/27/12 at 4:44pm
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post #101 of 221
10/27/12 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

 

Hmm. I don know, it might just be the high impedance phone (I hope), I have no issues driving my pro 900 (I know they are not plannars, but) with a week NFB-16 and the DTS 7.1 converter (came with the turtle beach PX5s)

 

I cant tur either past 11 oclock, otherwise it gets too loud.

 

I wouldnt have imagined a gaming console struggling with phones :O

 

Do let us know how the low impedance HE-4 fare!

 

The main problem with HE-4 is it's low sensitivity ,  "Efficiency: 86 DB" from head direct wich is much less than your pro 900 rated at 96 db 

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post #102 of 221
10/27/12 at 5:30pm

Do not worry about HE-4.

 

HE-5 has similar 86 dB sensitivity at ≈ 30Ω impedance. SA-31 makes HE-5 insanely loud at anything over 40-45 on high gain (+10 dB) ...that is - if you feed your SA-31 with anything that approximates "standard consumer audio" line level.

 

SA-31 has no headroom? Yeah, right... All that power is there for a reason - and loudness is not that reason in SA-31.

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post #103 of 221
10/28/12 at 1:08am

Ok so for anyone interested, I asked Kingwa about the gain settings, he replied:

 

 

 
"Yes we can custom order the different gain, the highest is can up to 35DB.
But higher gain, users want to have take care the source and the signal cable, the noise also will gain more.
Kingwa"
 
Im not sure what he meant by the first sentence on the second line though, wha does he mean by "take care the source and signal cable"?
 
Thanks!
 
Hope this will also help.
 
Cya guys
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post #104 of 221
10/28/12 at 1:26am
Depending on how it works with the HE4, I may ask the to make low gain what high hain is currently, and make high gain 20-25db. I only plan on using major headphones anyways, and the KSC35 sounded fine on high gain, though barely into double digits.
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post #105 of 221
10/28/12 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

 
Im not sure what he meant by the first sentence on the second line though, wha does he mean by "take care the source and signal cable"?
 
Thanks!
 
Hope this will also help.
 
Cya guys

If the gain is 10DB, the source and the signal cable total have 0.1MV noise level, the amp will output around 0.3MV output ( assume the volume is on max position ).

If the gain is 30DB, the noise become 3MV .

 

The source noise is fixed, the good shield signal cable can have less noise while transfer the signal .

 

 

Nowdays, the amp design usually is refer the input signal level around 2V to 3V because most dedicated source have refer this standard  , if the source have quite low output , like 0.7V ,the amp can't have enough gain for the large power output .

 

If design refer 0.7V input level design, while connect with 2V output level source, the volume just turn several steps, the output have very loud .

 

This is different to the DAC built in amp , Its DAC output level is fixed  so can easy design the total gain  .

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