Plenty examples of full range single driver BAs with plenty of extension both ways in this thread. Their purpose isn't extra bass but overall res. To each his own. Use your ears and buy what meets your personal needs.
Recent Images In This Thread
- productEtymotic ER-4P Portable In-Ear Earphonestagged by System, 7/10/12
- productFischer Audio DBA-02tagged by System, 7/10/12
- productHEAD-DIRECT HiFiMan RE-262tagged by System, 7/10/12
- productHEAD-DIRECT RE0 In-ear Headphonestagged by System, 7/10/12
- categoryHeadphonestagged by System, 7/10/12
- productHiFiMAN RE272tagged by System, 7/10/12
- categoryIn Eartagged by System, 7/10/12
- productJVC HA-FXT90tagged by System, 7/10/12
- productJVC/Victor FX700tagged by System, 7/10/12
- productMEElectronics A151-BK Balanced Armature In-Ear Headphonestagged by System, 7/10/12More
- productPhonak Audeo PFE 121tagged by System, 7/10/12
Related Forum Threads
- Yet another "best IEM for ~€120 ($150)" thread Last post on 11/2/12 at 5:24am in Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors
- £100 IEMs, a little confused on what to get. Last post on 3/2/13 at 12:27am in Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors
- IEMs for deployment to Afghanistan? Last post on 7/25/12 at 12:06am in Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors
- looking for my first pair of nice iem Last post on 1/1/13 at 12:31pm in Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors
- Question about IEMs vs headphones Last post on 7/19/12 at 2:50pm in Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi Buying Guide (In-Ear Headphones)
Last edited: 11/28/16
- Headphone ImpedanceLast edited: 8/18/12
- Buying Guide Headphones By Price RangeLast edited: 10/26/12
- A Hopefully Helpful Headphone Buying Guide For Newbies By BoomanaLast edited: 1/6/13
- Top Tier Universal Iem Comparison Chart And InformationLast edited: 6/22/16
Confusingly, I think Sennheiser is rebranding the Momentum In-Ear (M2 IEi) headphones as HD 1 In-Ear – specifications and appearance are identical. I bought these when my Klipsch S4i started...
For larger views of any of the photos (1200 x 800) - please click on the individual imagesINTRODUCTIONEvery so often as a reviewer you get a surprise – something not quite expected. Sometimes its...
Hello, This is my first review on Head-Fi, or anywhere else for that matter. I will not go through the normal paces of creating a review based on the set pattern of product history, build and...
The detail, imaging, and sound-staging are accurate and bring your headphones the neutral platform they need in order to perform the way their engineers intended. The DAC is the high point of...
First Impression When I first listened to HD380Pro, I thought that I received a far more expensive headphone. After an hour or so of using them, I still felt that they sound better than...
Why dynamic drivers have better bass than BA drivers? - Page 4post #46 of 737/12/12 at 11:24am
Gear mentioned in this thread:post #47 of 737/12/12 at 11:55ampost #48 of 737/12/12 at 12:07pmQuote:
That's a tough road if you want to try tuning it that way... But in theory, yes, it can be (theoretically) tuned to sound like the GR07...post #49 of 737/12/12 at 2:45pm
I don't know. I think you may be able to find a BA to tune similar to that but I doubt that it could be a twfk or that anything would sound just like it. Even dynamics ot BAs don't sound like their brothers with similar goals. Similar, perhaps but not same.post #50 of 737/12/12 at 4:28pmWell since custom iems have different BA's for different frequencies I'd imagine that not all BA's are created equally when it come to bass response. The diaphram needs more room to move to create deep bass notes and small armature drivers aren't as good as larger ones in this regard. A large enough BA driver should be able to match any dynamic driver.
Also, it's a different thing entirely to say that a single armature driver produces "enough" bass. We're talking about comparing bass levels of BA and dynamics regardless of what one considers" enough" to be. If someone prefers more sub-bass than what is considered flat then that person needs either a dynamic driver or a sizable BA capable of enhanced bass output.post #51 of 737/13/12 at 4:56am
There's a few single BA customs but I agree about everything else. There's also multi driver dynamics. It's difficult to make anything single driver extremely linear and extended. Using mutiple units allows you the versatility to better tailor to your needs. More bass a reasonable prices is the Dynamic market but it's not like there aren't other trade offs either. It's pick your poison and there isn't a wrong answer, just a right one for you.post #52 of 737/13/12 at 5:12am
Some of the companies producing their own drivers have experimented with different materials.
Sony EX1000 has a liquid crystal polymer film diaphragm.
JVC FX 700 has wooden diaphragm and brass housing with exterior wooden shells.
VSonic GR-07 - bio-cellulose technology
All are famous for their smooth mids and high quality bass.
At the moment BA donot have similar technology or material selection.
Edited by MuZo2 - 7/13/12 at 5:24ampost #53 of 737/13/12 at 6:42am
The materials themselves are likely overrated as there's not much in breakup modes going on. Probably has more to do with keeping the dome portion rigid enough while getting the correct surround characteristic from the same material. I'd think building something from the correct surround material and bonding a light rigid piece to the center portion would be a good way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if this was happening in some of the promising dynamic micro drivers. Perhaps the way biocellulose is formed allows better variable thickness control to achieve some of this. Paper (wood?) has always been a great material for cones. Better than some exotics depending on the formulation though probably not the best for surrounds. I just looked at the JVC after writing that and it seems bonding a stiff diaphragm to a complaint surround is exactly what they're doing.
Materials relate to resonance, damping, mass and compliance. Were talking frequencies here than can't become fundamentally resonance in these enclosures length and diaphragm sizes until your up around 9k or so where acoustic filters can be used but it doesn't mean materials don't matter, they do but it may be overstated as to why. Doesn't mean they can have peaks in their designs but they're not acoustic reinforcement in nature. You'll notice that the 3 examples above will still use bass and high frequency mechanical tailoring.
What we're dealing with in in-ears is almost entirely pistonic pressure change in the ear and not so much resonances though some can appear in the higher registers. The material of the activation lever in a BA is made from isn't that important but it they wanted to, they could change what it was made from. In fact, it's been done in the cheaper siren types that use standard dynamic looking diaphragms. There just isn't much point.
Edited by goodvibes - 7/13/12 at 11:02ampost #54 of 737/13/12 at 5:29pm
Well, BA also have some variety, they can use different damping, e.g. ferrofluidic, standard magnetic, no damping.
There could be a variety of membranes there as well.
About tuning DBA-02 into GR07 - not possible. Either lowest end WBFK would distort or the highest end WBFK would lack highest end energy.
This is the base TWFK curve: http://www.knowles.com/search/prods_pdf/TWFK-30017-000.pdf
You could try to come close to RE272 though.
It would be easier to achieve the full bass with a dampened armature like FFH: http://www.knowles.com/search/prods_pdf/FFH-23375-I02.pdf
then layering e.g. EF with the right slow crossover: http://www.knowles.com/search/prods_pdf/EF-21942-000.pdf
This would have some really... interesting impedance curve though. (Inverse of the usual armatures, and it'd need a resistive element for the high end EF.)
Or perhaps skip the middleman and go for the GQ armature: http://www.knowles.com/search/prods_pdf/GQ-30783-000.pdf
Now we're talking high end. (This one is WBFK + ED in one package.)
I wonder if someone uses those already in mass production. The curve looks like it'd quite match GR07, ED has more than enough bass power.
I'd expect it to be less sibilant. It's very low impedance though, so it'll need likewise source.
Edited by AstralStorm - 7/13/12 at 5:32pmpost #55 of 737/13/12 at 7:40pm
I'm pretty much with you on that but most BA's don't have normal diaphragms as we may imagine. MAs and Sirens do but I think most BA's basically use leaf spring levers as diaphragms like this Sony cutaway.
I believe the ADDIEM uses a version of the GQ with their own crossover and a vent. Unfortunately, it's not tuned anything like a GR07.
Edited by goodvibes - 7/13/12 at 7:50pmpost #56 of 737/13/12 at 8:08pmpost #57 of 737/13/12 at 8:47pm
Right and they commonly have the rod at the end where the arrows are like the sony cutaway. The top 'diaphram' is secured at the other side so it works as a lever. I called it similar to a leaf spring becaue the armature centers itself and recovers the same way a leaf spring would though that rstitution can be either by just the armature or combines with the diapragm portion.
Edited by goodvibes - 7/14/12 at 5:58pmpost #58 of 737/14/12 at 2:14pm
Yes, of course there are differences, e.g. there are 90 degree rotated armatures like the one he's shown, ones that are on vent axis, ones that have the inside filled with ferrofluid, etc.
Also variants with the drive rod being mechanically dampened - attached to the case.
Moving armature instead has a drive rod being moved directly, not via bending a drive coil.
The difference from typical dynamic is that you can use a huge magnet, as it doesn't have to move.
(Really, the info is quite outdated, at least by 10 years. There have been important improvements in construction of both BA and MA.)
Edited by AstralStorm - 7/14/12 at 2:23pmpost #59 of 737/14/12 at 5:52pm
I misunderstood some of the previous post so read this one with a grain regarding my defensiveness. Some good info so no redo and I'll take my lumps but my apologies to Astral.
Of course those designs exist and Moving armature speakers (moving iron) appeared aound 1910 and 15 years before moving coil speakers did but we're talking about what's in an IEMs and that's a cutaway of almost every BA other than a siren type mentioned regardless of sound exit position. It's pressure change so location isn't that critical. The siren has a dynamic type diaphragm with the drive rod attached to it's center. These came out a few years back as a cost effective direct replacement for dynamic type iem construction. The rest of the motor is still the same as the botton 2/3rds of the BA diagram and already mentioned. BAs are also not 'filled' with ferrofluid. There will be a small amount held in place by magnetism between the magnets and around a portion of the armature itself.
Moving coils have no more restriction on magnet size than BAs since the magnets are stationary in both.
Moving armature is not truly a balanced armature. If you look at it, it's not really balanced. I've often pointed out that because of dynamic type suspensions, they're subject to break in like or even more than dynamics. It also means they could be tuned similarly to dynamics if so desired. Bass and all. We're all aware of them by the way. I assumed it was a siren type before ClieOS posted a dagram a couple years ago. Quite different. I use one as my primary device. It's also unique to only 4 products world wide.
Here's good diagrams from the source. http://www.yashima-elec.co.jp/e/technical_information/backnumber002.html Another cutaway of a BA and MA. Notice that in the MA, the armature is more the (rigid) diaphragm than what is noted as the diaphragm that operates more as a damper and suspension. That suspension moves a bit with the armature so it's not an improper desription but it's other functions are probably more noteworthy here. So far, they've all also been sealed so air damping as well. The diagram you gave works as well but I don't think that the ones in IEMs have the top membrane.
Edited by goodvibes - 7/14/12 at 6:44pmpost #60 of 737/14/12 at 6:18pmQuote:
Uh, I was talking about the papers I've linked to being outdated. Some misunderstanding... Thanks for the nice link.
(Flooded means injected in ul amounts, as it will form the membrane on its own.)
About GQ: there are two models. One seems like what you'd expect from a normal armature, the other, not so much. :-)
Edited by AstralStorm - 7/14/12 at 6:40pmReturn HomeBack to Forum: Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors
- Why dynamic drivers have better bass than BA drivers?
Gear mentioned in this thread:
- Headphone Impedance
- › Best classical recordings...ever! 35 seconds ago
- › CES 2017: MQA announces TIDAL Masters, and more 1 minute ago
- › Chord Electronics 2Qute DAC announced 2 minutes ago
- › Upcoming DAP from xDuoo - the X10! 3 minutes ago
- › Bang & Olufsen BeoPlay H6 Discussion Thread 3 minutes ago
- › AudioQuest NightOwl - A closed-back NightHawk 3 minutes ago
- › Offshoot Headphone Discussion HD800 / Focal / Speakers etc (ex Mojo... 4 minutes ago
- › Hifiman he-400i Impressions and Discussion 5 minutes ago
- › Earbuds Round-Up 5 minutes ago
- › Band Name Game II 5 minutes ago
- › Sennheiser Momentum In Ear (iOS version) - Black Chrome by HiWire
- › Fiio F1 Dynamic In-ear Monitors by Brooko
- › ENIGMAcoustics Dharma D1000 by geoffalter11
- › Emotiva Stealth DC-1 | Balanced 24/192 Fully Differential DAC by audiobean
- › Sennheiser HD 380 PRO Headphones by Dobrescu George
- › ADV.Sound EVO X by B9Scrambler
- › HiLisening MaGaosi Newest High end Detachable Design K3 In-Ear HiFi... by TwinACStacks
- › Sennheiser HD 650 Headphones by SOULSIK
- › Brainwavz B200 by earfonia
- › iBasso Audio DX200 Reference DAP by H20Fidelity
- › Head-Fi Buying Guide (Travel Headphones)
- › Head-Fi Buying Guide (CanJams)
- › FiiO X3II DAP firmwares with custom themes
- › Flawless Album Suggestions
- › The Audiophile Scene in a Third World Country...
- › Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide,...
- › Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide,...
- › Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide:...
- › Chord Mojo FAQ
- › Head-Fi Logo Gear