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Vsonic GR07 MK2 - stunning new cable! | bio-cel tech IEM | now with review - see 2nd post - Page 56

post #826 of 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomikn00b View Post

I also agree with this.

And actually, when I boosted the lower frequencies I found the sound exquisite. But my standard is if I'm spending so much on an iem, I don't expect to be EQing it.

 

On a side note.

Are you sure these gr07's (mk ii) are incredible in their versatility. Kiteki says they're the perfect average. I think he's right in the sense that they are just shy of exciting simply because they don't put emphasis/focus on any particular part of the frequency range. If the music you're listening to has mids, mids it is. If it's basslines, bass it is. If it's treble, treble it is.

Although I must say I wasn't expecting it to make bass so pleasant. Makes me wonder why I would ever want a bass heavy iem.

I think this is what a neutral iem should sound like. An upgrade to this would simply improve soundstage, separation, detail, layering, and higher highs while maintaining the overall balance.

 

Hopefully, I still don't have residual new toy syndrome. It's been a week now.

 

atomik, do you already have the gr07?

post #827 of 981
atomikn00b, it depends what you're comparing, but the GR07 bass is boosted compared to a flat response. It does darken the mids a bit compared to something more tonally accurate, but it's not too bad considering most iems are much worse in this regard.
post #828 of 981
Edit double post. Thanks new mobile version.
Edited by gnarlsagan - 12/5/12 at 1:05pm
post #829 of 981
Thread Starter 

Uh yeah, technically it does have extension, but the SPL in the highs is very low, and the bass quality is very dissonant and bleeding, this is my crude EQ to make the RE262 sound like a 'normal' IEM...

 

 

1000

 

With this EQ applied, the dissonance is still there though, it sounds like a bookshelf speaker with only a mid-woofer desperately needing a bass vent or tweeter...

 

 

For $150 it seems like the RE262 cut too many corners, the RE272 (from memory) seems like the more refined model, and justified at costing $100 more which I never expected until now.  The RE272 still suffers from narrow soundspace but has better shimmer, extension, better hyper dynamic range / quiver (which I can't hear very much in the RE262, and several reported in the RE272 on first listen) and less dissonance.

 

I expected the RE262 to be a slightly mid-centric RE272 and feel very jipped.  In my personal view the RE272 is actually reasonable for $250 but the RE262 is too flawed sounding for $150.

 

 

The tone and quality of the mids in the RE262 is 'very special', sure, and actually with some music the mids of the RE262 remind me a little of the ATH-A2000X tonal quality... however, the bass quality and it's bleed (which sounds like someone violently hitting a sheet of iron with a bag of flour), and the 'boxy' sound of piano notes (like a CASIO), and vocals (like they are being over-amplified in a small karaoke room made entirely out of wood) renders the whole experience nearly completely useless.

 

I just can't hear anything in the RE262 that shouldn't make them discontinue it and sell the RE272 in it's place for $150 which seems more... honest.  Let alone the re-release the RE252 at $75 or $100 which was a faster and cleaner sounding IEM with better stereo feeling.

 

If I put aside the price, competition, accept it's flaws and just let the lo-fi sound of RE262 'sink in' and appreciate it for what it is (without eq), then yes... it does sound like a sweet, involving and high resolution laptop speaker.


Edited by kiteki - 12/5/12 at 2:02pm
post #830 of 981

I definitely agree that it doesn't have the shimmer, but I thought the subdued treble was a nice touch. The bass, to me, is not exactly 'lo-fi' sounding, but more just completely unremarkable. It's obviously not its strength, yet there's nothing I find particularly bad about it either, other than its lack of impact (for its level of shelving). Honestly, the part that I find most annoying about the 262 is the manner by which it sounds mid-centric. It's too forced IMO; the SE530/535 was specifically made to have intimate vocals but sounded like it was purpose made for that. The 262 sounded like they started off with a flat sounding IEM and added a bunch of boost around the 1.5k locus. It's not particularly spacious sounding, due to too much boost from 1-2k and not enough 12+ kHz presence, but at the same time, its redeeming quality is that stereo tracking is really easy to pick out, more so that perhaps even the EX1000. I don't doubt the 272 is the better overall earphone; however, I'm happy with it, and I'll probably keep it, unless I really do go for the Heir Tzar 350, in which the 262 will go.

 

At the same price, though, the GR07 is probably more agreeable to more people.

 

EDIT 01: When you refer to 'hyper dynamic range', I wasn't really looking for that in the 262; that's what I have the FI-BA-SS for! wink.gif

 

EDIT 02: I was disappointed by how easy it was to drive; I was under the impression that it'd give me a lot more play in my volume pot, but it doesn't. Seems like the 262 has way more reactance than resistance in its voice coil, leading me to believe that it has a lot of wraps of wire around the diaphragm, driving up the mass, but not requiring higher voltage swing. My iPod Touch can drive it really loudly even at 50%.


Edited by tomscy2000 - 12/5/12 at 2:30pm
post #831 of 981
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by TheMarkRemains View Post

Re262 comparable to a Shure 530 tone wise ? That's kind of how I picture them. All mids

 

Tone wise?  I've only heard the Shure SE535 (not sure if different from the SE530).  The RE262 has the slightly more involving and quality tone in the mids (most likely the Titanium layer), with nice decay and just nice... tone, it sounds good with trance I think...

 

Curiously they have sortof similar bass which sounds like a piece of iron hitting a pillow, or a low quality sub-woofer in a car (listening to the car from the outside).  The SE535 has slightly more extension in the highs, and then it has extremely much more soundspace, layering, and sharper imaging.  The lesser dissonance, the darker presentation without sounding annoying and the 10 times superior soundspace and imaging make the SE425 / SE535 the better IEM's, unless the tone of mids is very very important to you / you only listen to band-limited jazz / you have some kind of fetish for lo-fi-hi-fi sound.

 

Actually now that I think about it the RE262 has some similarity with the Yuin OK2, I suppose since they both use metallic drivers and have focus on the mids.  Since neither of them seemed to tailor the sound very much at all and have a few flaws, I honestly wonder how they compare with the Radioshack Titanium-layered earphones, the Nuforce NE700x and the NOCS NS400.

 

 

Originally Posted by atomikn00b View Post

 

these gr07's (mk ii) are incredible in their versatility. Kiteki says they're the perfect average. I think he's right in the sense that they are just shy of exciting simply because they don't put emphasis/focus on any particular part of the frequency range. /

 

Yes except it's more than that, they achieve an equal focus in hot / cold, metallic / soft, thick / thin.  The soundspace isn't narrow and isn't hyper-extended, the imaging isn't laser sharp and isn't fuzzy, they're reasonably source transparent, they have pretty good speed and they have a nice design and look.  They're not very involving or exciting at all, but they're a very 'safe' IEM in several respects.

 

In my view the Vsonic R04 had better extension up top though and was slightly more involving, however less refined, so from a value perspective I'd still vote for the Vsonic R04 for $50 which is the best value I know of, and then save up for something different which excels the GR07, except in dynamic drivers that is pretty difficult.

 

All I can think of (which I've heard), with some caveats, are Sony EX700, EX800ST, EX1000, Hifiman RE272 and Audio Technica CKW1000ANV.

 

The GR07 bass edition (from what I've read in one comment), some other dynamic Audio Technicas I've never heard (CKM99 / CKM77 / CKM33?), JVC (FXT-90, FX500, FXD70, FXD80?), Ortofon E-Q5, Final Audio Adagio V etc. (you know, if they count...) and some rarer brands like NOCS, BLOX / Fostex and Ocharaku all come to mind as well.

post #832 of 981
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

/ I don't doubt the 272 is the better overall earphone; however, I'm happy with it, and I'll probably keep it, unless I really do go for the Heir Tzar 350, in which the 262 will go.

 

At the same price, though, the GR07 is probably more agreeable to more people.

 

EDIT 01: When you refer to 'hyper dynamic range', I wasn't really looking for that in the 262; that's what I have the FI-BA-SS for! wink.gif

 

EDIT 02: I was disappointed by how easy it was to drive; I was under the impression that it'd give me a lot more play in my volume pot, but it doesn't. Seems like the 262 has way more reactance than resistance in its voice coil, leading me to believe that it has a lot of wraps of wire around the diaphragm, driving up the mass, but not requiring higher voltage swing. My iPod Touch can drive it really loudly even at 50%.

 

Yes, you already have much better IEM's than the RE262 and you may appreciate it's unique sound, similar to how I enjoyed the Final Audio Piano Forte II ($60) with vocals a lot, the "boom box from outer space" as Romy put it.

 

As usual insertion depth / angle, volume, music, DAC / Amp synergy, intoxication, how high you set your bar, price / value bias etc. all play a part.

 

I'm mostly comparing the RE262 to the RE272 and RE252 in my mind.  If it was someones first IEM ever and they like mids, then it's okay I suppose, still I wonder how it rivals the Vsonic GR06, and some other players at half the price like the NOCS NS400, which is also Titanium-coated and better than the Nuforce NE700X according to at least one review here - http://www.amazon.com/NS400-001-NS400-Earphones-Remote-Titanium/product-reviews/B004BN3AI6/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R1RKYG20BZA633

post #833 of 981
Thread Starter 

By the way, gnarlsagan, you asked about identical FR and CSD / IR, if you use an iPhone you can try setting your Hifiman RE0 and your JVC FXD80 to identical (flat) FR with this app if you want, as an experiment - http://accudio.goldenears.net/

 

Those two IEM's are both supported, and they both scored top marks in "EQ adaptability" - http://accudio.goldenears.net/SupportProdList

 

 

Someone has called this app "snake-oil" and another person "rubbish" without disclosing why yet, so I'll just assume for consumer, nationalistic or non-equalizer-purity reasons, but from the perspective of audio science research it's fine, and it's actually a huge, unparalleled effort on behalf of goldenears.net.

 

You see, now people can truly equalize several products to flat FR, from the same reference point of measuring eqiupment, and decide for themselves if a Hifiman RE0 + EQ is sufficient or if a Tesla T1 is necessary. =)

 

If the RE0 isn't sufficient, then what exactly - in black and white audio science terms on paper - does the Tesla T1 offer?  If you look at the CSD / IR it's not even 'very good' there at all.

 

Tesla T1 (Click to show)

04.CSD_beyerdynamic T1.png

post #834 of 981
Thread Starter 

Here is something else not visible in flat frequency response, which isn't IR, THD+N, CSD, IMD, stereo seperation, time/phase, and it's not even soundstage!!  It's sine ####### waves at the ####### beach.

 

1000


Edited by kiteki - 12/5/12 at 5:53pm
post #835 of 981

It's effin' ringin' !!! wink.gif

post #836 of 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

atomik, do you already have the gr07?

 

Yes I do and I'm liking it. Gotta finish putting it through its burn though.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

atomikn00b, it depends what you're comparing, but the GR07 bass is boosted compared to a flat response. It does darken the mids a bit compared to something more tonally accurate, but it's not too bad considering most iems are much worse in this regard.

 

Accepted.

post #837 of 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomikn00b View Post

 

Yes I do and I'm liking it. Gotta finish putting it through its burn though.

 

 

 

Nice. Welcome to the club:

 

post #838 of 981

I bought these during the black friday sale and they finally arrived. Can't wait to see if these are better then my TF10

post #839 of 981
Will be completely different than your TF10. They are neutral sounding. They also require extensive burn in, they can sound a bit harsh out of the box.
post #840 of 981
Thread Starter 

Uh yeah, the TF10 has quite a bit of this in it, referring to my review...

 

click picture (Click to show)

 

 1000

 

 

 

However, the TF10 is rather like an advanced graphics card and screen, except glitchy and full of ghosting or similar (random examples).

 

I.e.  It has technical performance but it can't deliver the cash.

 

For example if the left side here is a natural soundspace presentation...

 

 

34_93.gif

 

 

The TF10 is closer to the right side, most likely due to time, phase and speed non-uniformity issues.

 

 

Only a 2 minute listen though about 1 year ago so not confident lol.

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