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O2 AMP + ODAC - Page 184

post #2746 of 3232

Just got the HE-6.  This thing is rediculously hard to drive.  I have 2 channel Beta though, I guess 4 channel is warrented with these.  As for O2, I will not even try it.

post #2747 of 3232

Yup they are very inefficient for sure.....get out your checkbook.....

 

A.

post #2748 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Just got the HE-6.  This thing is rediculously hard to drive.  I have 2 channel Beta though, I guess 4 channel is warrented with these.  As for O2, I will not even try it.

They're exceedingly hard to drive well, which is why I urge anyone considering a purchase to think it over and know what they're getting into in terms of amplification cost / total system cost.  These are not a casual purchase.

 

That being said, they do sound absolutely glorious once you get it right.  With the right amplification imo nothing except perhaps the really high end electrostats driven by an equally high end amp stage come close.  But then you're looking a a budget the size of a small car.  Your B22 has the juice though, certainly if you run the HE-6 balanced.

 

Enjoy and keep us posted!

post #2749 of 3232

I know my 2 channel has enough juice since I can have it output at a comfortable volume and also at a level where I can hear the dynamics and the details, but I think it's rediculous how much close to max volume I must rotate, and even at max, it's not blasting loud.  

 

Reason why I think my Beta 22 drives it to potential is because it is very clear sounding, sound is tight and treble extension is there.  Vocals are rediculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Something interesting I discovered is that, just because it gets loud doesn't mean the dynamics are there.  Sure, on paper it give you a value at certain output level, but is the dynamics there?

 

What I discovered is that with the hard to drive headphones like the HE-6, It's plenty loud at middle point, but audibly when I turn it up it doesn't get that much louder, but I hear more dynamics.  For example, you guys notice weak amps do not push the bass for bigger cans?  This probably cannot be measured, but has to be experienced, just like difference in sound of the solid-state amps that are flat and have less than audible distortions(how do you tell them apart besides your ears?).  

 

I have to conclude that just because it provide loud volume, does it mean it has enough juice to bring out the headphones to full potential?  I don't think numbers and the experience are consistant.

 

Have you guys had that?  As you turn the volume it's linear to a certain point then it decays?  


Edited by SilverEars - 4/22/14 at 5:46pm
post #2750 of 3232

What I've experienced personally though it appears to fly into the face of conventional engineering and powering specs is that loudness in fact doesn't equate to good performance over the frequency range.

 

With dynamic headphones of high impedance and in marginal cases (just sufficient power) this is to be expected as typically impedance will fluctuate wildly (look at the T1 figures for instance) and this could cause 'local frequency' under powering so to speak.  However, I've also found this to be the case with the HE-6, which is a planar that presents ruler-flat impedance over the entire band.  You can be in a situation of sufficient volume, yet be faced with week, booming bass and thin, brittle treble.  Yet when coupled to a more powerful amp and at the same volume, these issues go away.

 

Don't ask me to explain, it's one of those cases where the figures don't match with reality as I perceive it.  

post #2751 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post

What I've experienced personally though it appears to fly into the face of conventional engineering and powering specs is that loudness in fact doesn't equate to good performance over the frequency range.



 



With dynamic headphones of high impedance and in marginal cases (just sufficient power) this is to be expected as typically impedance will fluctuate wildly (look at the T1 figures for instance) and this could cause 'local frequency' under powering so to speak.  However, I've also found this to be the case with the HE-6, which is a planar that presents ruler-flat impedance over the entire band.  You can be in a situation of sufficient volume, yet be faced with week, booming bass and thin, brittle treble.  Yet when coupled to a more powerful amp and at the same volume, these issues go away.



 



Don't ask me to explain, it's one of those cases where the figures don't match with reality as I perceive it.  


 



With Dynamic driver headphones like the T1 which the load impedance swings wildly at different frequencies, it is understandable to think that it requires a powerful amp with lots of reseved power. But a very efficient and easy to drive can at the same time (102 dBSPL/1mW), I think also compensate for the varying load impedance.

I've been using T1 with portable amps UHA-6SMKII including O2 and plugged it in directly into a DAP (DX90) and so far I can't find any track which I can discern any noticeable distortion nor weakness is bass weight and impact. The treble details sounds comparable to my ears as well regardless of the amp I use. (Hifi-M8, O2, DX90). Of course the powerful amp supply the loudest volume. but my point is at similar volume level, the T1 sounded pretty much the same without any hint of distortion or shifting in frequency response.
post #2752 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwhacker View Post

 

With Dynamic driver headphones like the T1 which the load impedance swings wildly at different frequencies, it is understandable to think that it requires a powerful amp with lots of reseved power. But a very efficient and easy to drive can at the same time (102 dBSPL/1mW), I think also compensate for the varying load impedance.

I've been using T1 with portable amps UHA-6SMKII including O2 and plugged it in directly into a DAP (DX90) and so far I can't find any track which I can discern any noticeable distortion nor weakness is bass weight and impact. The treble details sounds comparable to my ears as well regardless of the amp I use. (Hifi-M8, O2, DX90). Of course the powerful amp supply the loudest volume. but my point is at similar volume level, the T1 sounded pretty much the same without any hint of distortion or shifting in frequency response.

Do you think the T1 sounds sibilant/piercing with the O2? I use the T1 with the O2/ODAC and I don't like the combination much. I haven't tried the T1 with any other amp but with the O2/ODAC, I found the highs deeply flawed.

post #2753 of 3232
I don't have the ODAC, but O2 with my DX50 as source, I don't find T1 piercing, but yet it's a bit sibilant on some female vocals (Norah Jones) but it's not as bad as the sibilance I hear on my JH16.
post #2754 of 3232

Think it's not so much a question of amps as of the Beyerdynamic sound signature that you either like or don't.  I owned the DT-880's and though they were good value overall, never liked the treble. Not on my ODAC/O2, not on my V800/V200.  Thought it was model-specific but when I auditioned the T1 I found the same thing (of course in general they're a different kettle of fish vs the 880's).  I'm sure they're good headphones, just not to my personal taste.

post #2755 of 3232

I guess that's what people mean when they talk of synergy. Some headphones are great but flawed in some aspects and need equipment that enhances its strengths and negates its weaknesses to be truly great. 

post #2756 of 3232

In the objective vs subjective debate I'm starting to think that both sides are right. The O2 might well be the 'perfect' amplifier if all you need is amplification, however you might not end up with a 'perfect' sounding system unless it complements your headphones. 

post #2757 of 3232
One of the things I like about the O2 is that it offers me a constant, something which allows me to instantly judge a headphones sound signature. Everything else is a variable.
post #2758 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorrofox View Post

One of the things I like about the O2 is that it offers me a constant, something which allows me to instantly judge a headphones sound signature. Everything else is a variable.
This.
post #2759 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorrofox View Post

One of the things I like about the O2 is that it offers me a constant, something which allows me to instantly judge a headphones sound signature. Everything else is a variable.

Personally I would prefer a system i.e. DAC+amp+headphone that sounds good to me. The ability to judge a headphone (i.e. one component of the system) does not give me much pleasure. After all isn't this hobby about enjoying music?


Edited by PTom - 4/23/14 at 5:10am
post #2760 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTom View Post

Personally I would prefer a system i.e. DAC+amp+headphone that sounds good to me. The ability to judge a headphone (i.e. one component of the system) does not give me much pleasure. After all isn't this hobby about enjoying music?

Of course it's about enjoying music but I am not a rich man. Removing one variable simply increases my chance of finding contentment.
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