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O2 AMP + ODAC - Page 179

post #2671 of 3214

As an HE-6 and an O2 owner, nothing drives the HE-6 properly except a speaker amp.

 

The O2 can drive 90% of the cans and for the price, it does a great job. Best enjoyed with IEM,s as they seem to sound better

 

than headphones for some reason.


Edited by gikigill - 4/18/14 at 8:10pm
post #2672 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post
 

The O2 drives the LCD2's with AUTHORITY.

 

This means with clarity, loud, soft, anywhere in between.

 

Totally in command.

 

For anyone that's interested in an ODA check out www.agdraudio.com

 

You can get one all built and tested.

 

The parts with a case and AC adapter costs $250+ easily and you do all the work.

 

A fully assembled one tested will cost a bit more....more than ample power to drive most anything.

 

A.

 

oh...NOTE: the O2 was not meant to drive HE6's.....its one of those 2% cans that are well....just hard to drive due to their inefficiency.

 

Looking at your website mate, great job. Might be getting some stuff off you soon for a Desktop ODA.

post #2673 of 3214

Guys, I just realized where I'm getting my resolution on my LCD-2.  ODAC.  Now I realized why the combo sounded so great with iems, it was the ODAC the whole time.  O2 can be replaced, but not the ODAC, it well made DAC IMO.

post #2674 of 3214

^+1...agree 100%, the DAC implementation is a work of genius, a lot better than the amp imo.

post #2675 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

^+1...agree 100%, the DAC implementation is a work of genius, a lot better than the amp imo.

What the..? We agree on everything.  :beerchug:  Make sense as two Ortho owners, we know what amps are needed.

 

Anyway, I did A/B test with all my DACs.  I'm a DAC freak.  :D  I believe DACs make a huge difference, I can hear the differences to, and ODAC does really well.  I compared with the DACs I have, I wonder what DAC would be next level up?  Since now I believe that DACs can make a difference.

 

There are reasons why people are getting Beta 22 for their LCDs. I've A/B the O2, and it's bloated.  


Edited by SilverEars - 4/18/14 at 8:33pm
post #2676 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

^+1...agree 100%, the DAC implementation is a work of genius, a lot better than the amp imo.

What other DACs have you tried?

post #2677 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

What other DACs have you tried?

Whenever I have the chance I try auditioning stuff, have to compensate for the fact that 2/3rd of the time I live in Delhi (for the job), the equivalent of the sahara for high end audio (for most people here it's high end if it goes LOUD, but granted, if I were the average Joe here then I'd have other priorities than audio gear).  For DACs, the technology and various ways it gets implemented are fascinating.  Problem is that it's not always possible to make that the only variable in the chain as I live in 2 locations.

 

Let's put it this way, the cheapest external DAC I've heard would be the ODAC, the most refined (and very likely most expensive) one to date the MSB Diamond DAC IV Select which I first got to know while on a trip to Japan of all places.  Apart from ODAC I only own the V800 which I still find very good, despite the USB that's outdated.  Was actually looking to upgrade but after talking to some people here came to the conclusion that it'd cost mucho dollars to make a sizeable difference in quality.  Most fascinating products to me at the moment -at human price levels- are the Auralic Vega and (totally different approach, NOS) the Metrum Acoustics Hex.  

post #2678 of 3214

Although I doubt it, but possibly the O2 amp not sounding very good with my LCD-2 could be my 12 VAC Triad wall wart.  Can I get more voltage swing with a higher voltage wall ward?  on the O2 plug it says 14-20VAC.  Should I get a 20VAC?


Edited by SilverEars - 4/19/14 at 5:59am
post #2679 of 3214

All I can say is that I tried a different ww some time back and to my ears it didn't change a thing.  The max voltage swing is determined by the inner electronics and short of redesigning stuff and swapping components there's nothing that can be done.  Even if you'd feed it a signal that had already x dB of gain over normal (rebook) level dialed in, you'd just drive the amp into clipping.

post #2680 of 3214

I've stated that since according to the designer's spec's it's 7Vrms max, it's 10Vpp max.  Correct me if I'm wrong about the specs.

.  

If what I said is right, is it peaked at that value because of the regular only output that much?

 

The 12VAC triad would provide at max RMS of 12VAC which is around 8.5VDCpp, and I would asume DC output is less though.  So, if you provide a higher valued transformer, wouldn't you get the 10Vpp Max?  Which transformer would help hit that voltage is the question.


Edited by SilverEars - 4/19/14 at 6:16am
post #2681 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

All I can say is that I tried a different ww some time back and to my ears it didn't change a thing.  The max voltage swing is determined by the inner electronics and short of redesigning stuff and swapping components there's nothing that can be done.  Even if you'd feed it a signal that had already x dB of gain over normal (rebook) level dialed in, you'd just drive the amp into clipping.


is your v800 much better than the odac?

post #2682 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
 

You run into voltage/current limitations of the design at the HE-6's impedance, given its 83.5 dB sensitivity.  See the 'more power?' article on the designer's blog which gives a good overview, in particular, take a look at the output graphs listing Vmax and current at 1% THD+N into various impedances.  Simply put:  you'll drive it into clipping at anything approaching normal levels, even when not taking into account headroom or dynamic music etc.  This is assuming that there's no more current limitations at 50 Ohm loads (at 33 Ohm it's limited to 4.5V/613 mW).

 

Nothing against the O2 (been getting some hate mail from people who seem to think I have something against the design which, for the record, is not the case) but it's not the right tool for the HE-6.


I am not a fanboy of the O2 amp . I know there are things that o2 wont be able to do obviously. I am just looking into the numbers, sort of as an exercise for me to better understand those spec

To reach 110 SPL, I calculated that @ 50 ohm, 2.99 V rms is required and 447 mW is the power needed.

That's without headroom or listening to dynamic stuff that is said to be requiring 115 SPL.

I read the graphs in that blog. To maintain 0.002% THD+N the power is in general < 300 mW.

That's why the sound is bloated. Am I correct so far?

post #2683 of 3214

What I come to understand about THD for SS amps is that, the value below 1% is meaningless since it's inaudible according to sciene. Headphones distortion is significant so that's where it matters.  I understand that when SS distort in an audible level, it's basically clipping.  Pretty much the spec and measurement do not tell you much about performance of SS amp since they will typically measure below great performing level.  What is more useful is how the headphones is performing under load of the amps and sources.  What the amp is outputing from each particular DAC.  Do different amp change the output of one DAC if the amps were swapped?

 

I don't quite understand how tighness of sound and bloating is caused by.  I'm guessing possibly from damping, but O2 dfinately sound less controlled an bloated and my Beta 22 does sound tighter.  I've also noticed with using different DACs to the Beta 22.  I A/B'd and came into conclusion that ODAC is a good DAC, and O2 doesn't have enough power to support my LCD-2, although it is being fed in by ODAC.


Edited by SilverEars - 4/19/14 at 9:47am
post #2684 of 3214

Wow.....my experience is totally different with LCD2's....not bloated at all....not in the least...crystal clear, tight bass...wonderful transparent sound.

 

I have a HRT MSii + and I cant tell the difference between it or the ODAC...both superb.

 

I have several ac adapters and even with the most capable one...its not a issue.

 

The only thing that can cause distortion in my setup is running on 6.5x gain...I turned my O2s into Unity gain and 2.5 x...I hardly ever use 2.5.

 

A.

post #2685 of 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthk View Post
 


is your v800 much better than the odac?

Yes to me it is better but not if you're strictly talking 'sound quality'.  It's better because it offers me stuff I find useful that can't be found on the ODAC such as XLR-output, discreet volume control that's of a good enough quality so it can double as a pre-amp, the possibility to hardware-set pre-gain on a number of levels, hardware control of oversampling between x1,2,3,4, 'best' (depending on input) or to switch it off entirely.

 

For the DAC:  both use the Tenor USB-implementation , the differences are in the DAC-chipset proper (iirc ES9023 for the ODAC and the  PCM1792 for the V800) but especially in the way the signal is treated post-processing (filtering and conditioning etc).  They do have a slightly different 'signature' and I prefer what the V800 offers but of course you need to keep in mind that that 'signature' is not just created by the DAC-chip (frankly I don't believe there to be much if any difference there, certainly not audible) but mainly by what happens to the signal next, the OPA's used in the DAC's amplification stage etc.

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