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O2 AMP + ODAC - Page 114

post #1696 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclaz View Post
 

The O2/ODAC all in 1 combo isn't suited for outputting to amplified speakers right? Or you can use the headphone out as a line out in to powered speakers?

 

I'm just wondering what my ideal solution is if I plan to use both speakers and headphones with my PC. I want to be able to swap between them with minimal fuss/cable swapping.

 

You would be much better off with separate ODAC and O2. Having  2 amplifiers one after another is not a good idea.

post #1697 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post
 

 

You would be much better off with separate ODAC and O2. Having  2 amplifiers one after another is not a good idea.

 


Uhhhm, pretty sure the designer said that double amping makes no difference so long as both amps are properly designed.


I double amp my O2 and Emotiva Mini-X into my Polk floorstanders all the time. I have not used powered speakers, however.

post #1698 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislangley4253 View Post
 

 


Uhhhm, pretty sure the designer said that double amping makes no difference so long as both amps are properly designed.


I double amp my O2 and Emotiva Mini-X into my Polk floorstanders all the time. I have not used powered speakers, however.

 

 

When you double amp, the worst specifications of each amp combine - if one amp has hiss problem, the resulting "double-amp" will have hiss problem, even if the second amp doesn't have this issue. If one amp cuts bass below 50 Hz, the resulting "double-amp" will have no bass under 50Hz.

Also, even if each amp has normal amount of noise (X), then the resulting "double-amp" will have twice as much (2X).

Since there are no perfect amps, double amping always leads to worse results.

post #1699 of 3161
All of this is true but it's not as bad as you are painting it. For a Mid-Fi set up is more than reasonable. If you are searching for Hi-Fi, I suppose you are not looking at this combo (although I don't consider it a bad combo either). Either way, it's a perfect valid temporary solution if it's the only option you can set up at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclaz View Post

The O2/ODAC all in 1 combo isn't suited for outputting to amplified speakers right? Or you can use the headphone out as a line out in to powered speakers?

I'm just wondering what my ideal solution is if I plan to use both speakers and headphones with my PC. I want to be able to swap between them with minimal fuss/cable swapping.

I just don't like the separated solution, to be honest. The other option you have is to get a line out of the DAC itself and build it in the back off the combo, specially if you consider building it yourself.
Edited by Ashade - 10/5/13 at 7:59pm
post #1700 of 3161

2nd that, adding RCA outputs is an easy solution however its not advised to have two devices connected to the output of the ODAC at the same time so i would wire a switch to toggle the output between the RCA jacks or the O2 board.

 

If you do want to double amp i would setup one of the gain positions for 1x or unity, basically remove two resistors for that position to minimize the amplification as the ODAC already outputs 2.3v line out level.  If you amplify beyond that level and feed it into the line in of the external speakers it will clip/distort and sound really bad.

 

If your not aiming for a portable solution i would suggest building both of them in separate enclosures with RCA jacks, thats how i have mine setup so i can mix/match with other dacs and amps.

post #1701 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post

All of this is true but it's not as bad as you are painting it. For a Mid-Fi set up is more than reasonable. If you are searching for Hi-Fi, I suppose you are not looking at this combo (although I don't consider it a bad combo either). Either way, it's a perfect valid temporary solution if it's the only option you can set up at the moment.
I just don't like the separated solution, to be honest. The other option you have is to get a line out of the DAC itself and build it in the back off the combo, specially if you consider building it yourself.

 

By what standards are the O2 amp and dac not hifi?

post #1702 of 3161
Reread the post and please tell me where I'm mentioning anything about that.

Did you read the conversation or are you just looking for controversy?
Edited by Ashade - 10/6/13 at 9:22am
post #1703 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post

Reread the post and please tell me where I'm mentioning anything about that.

Did you read the conversation or are you just looking for controversy?

 

You called the O2 "mid fi". Whatever that means, it implies there's a league of amps and dacs above it. It would make sense to expect you to call that hifi. According to what you wrote anyway.

post #1704 of 3161
What I said is that double amping was a mid-fi combo solution. And in any case, the O2 has several flaws that can make you consider it mid-fi under several circumstances, which doesn´t diminishes the fact that is probably the best amp under $500.

You can read the posts and interpret them whatever you want, as they weren't very specific but, as we say here: To the good listener (reader in this case), not many words are needed. 
Edited by Ashade - 10/6/13 at 12:03pm
post #1705 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post
 

When you double amp, the worst specifications of each amp combine - if one amp has hiss problem, the resulting "double-amp" will have hiss problem, even if the second amp doesn't have this issue. If one amp cuts bass below 50 Hz, the resulting "double-amp" will have no bass under 50Hz.

Also, even if each amp has normal amount of noise (X), then the resulting "double-amp" will have twice as much (2X).

Since there are no perfect amps, double amping always leads to worse results.

 

The O2 does not cut bass below 50 Hz (it has less than 0.1 dB attenuation at 20 Hz), and should not have even nearly audible hiss at a sane listening volume. When used at unity gain at maximum volume with the ODAC and a speaker amplifier, most of the noise will probably come from the speaker amp, and a few dB more from the ODAC than the O2. Almost all frequency response error will be from the speakers themselves (combined with the room acoustics), and they will be responsible for most of the non-linear distortion as well, especially in the bass range.

post #1706 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post

What I said is that double amping was a mid-fi combo solution. And in any case, the O2 has several flaws that can make you consider it mid-fi under several circumstances

 

What are those flaws exactly (I listed a few limitations here, but none of them apply to the case of "double amping" the ODAC with the O2 at 1x gain), and what is your definition of "mid-fi" ?


Edited by stv014 - 10/7/13 at 10:40am
post #1707 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

 



What are those flaws exactly (I listed a few limitations here, but none of them apply to the case of "double amping" the ODAC with the O2 at 1x gain), and what is your definition of "mid-fi" ?





 



As I said, "under certain circumstances". I never said they applied to double amping. In any case, double amping is not the optimal solution, specially when 1x is not an option provided by JDS labs, and not everybody has the skills required for DIY. Anyway, I'm not gonna keep on with the longings for controversy from some individuals in this forum.


Edited by Ashade - 10/7/13 at 10:52am
post #1708 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post
 

As I said, "under certain circumstances". I never said they applied to double amping

 

Well, you did say "double amping" is a mid-fi solution. But how do you define "mid-fi" exactly, and what is it about "double amping" that specifically guarantees mid-fi status at best ? After all, one setup with "double amping" can very well be better than another without it, and devices may internally contain multiple stages and thus be technically double (or triple, or whatever) amped. The O2 itself is arguably "double amped" compared to a simple CMoy. But in reality what matters is the overall performance of the entire chain, regardless of how many components it has.

post #1709 of 3161
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

After all, one setup with "double amping" can very well be better than another without it, and devices may internally contain multiple stages and thus be technically double (or triple, or whatever) amped.

You are absolutely right (was this what you wanted to hear? There you have it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

The O2 itself is arguably "double amped" compared to a simple CMoy.

I don't know what you are talking about. The guy was asking if he could double amp their active monitors, but I suppose you started your own personal crusade here.

Anyway, I'm learning a lot, so you can go on with your lectures, definitions and clarifications.
Edited by Ashade - 10/7/13 at 12:55pm
post #1710 of 3161

What flaws sonically does the O2 amp have????

 

I dont know ANY????

 

Really...remember this was designed as a low cost, excellent design....portable amp.

 

There are no sonic flaws that i am aware of.

 

The only real world flaws would be not so transportable, not so efficient cabling and connector locations, but sonically its pretty close to perfect.

 

It adds nothing and takes away nothing.

 

Another non sonic flaw would also be not having enough power for the "other" 2% of the headphones out there....

 

A.

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