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Full Grado Labs History! - Page 2

post #16 of 64
If you're actually Justin Bieber, and enjoyed the Denon's, you should order Fostex TH900's. They're a lot like the Denon's except better.
post #17 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcf View Post

Well done Pal! Lots of great info here.

Just want to add that there was another version of the black SR325 which had the HP1000 drivers which came after SR300. 

 

Grados.jpg

 

The two black 325s next to a pair of vintage RS1 with silver gamble.

 

I added a note after the HF-2 entry about those!

 

Thank you, I kind of wanted to do a vintage Grado guide (just to clear up the principal aspects and questions people might have in the future) until I noticed Grado had posted their full history of Facebook, which also covered the subject of vintages.

 

Have you bought this RS1 on Head-Fi? I remember seeing the classified for a silver gimbal/gamble one, and I wonder if it's the same or if there are two of them.


Edited by devouringone3 - 6/28/12 at 2:11pm
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

I added a note after the HF-2 entry about those!

 

Thank you, I kind of wanted to do a vintage Grado guide (just to clear up the principal aspects and questions people might have in the future) until I noticed Grado had posted their full history of Facebook, which also covered the subject of vintages.

 

Have you bought this RS1 on Head-Fi? I remember seeing the classified for a silver gimbal/gamble one, and I wonder if it's the same or if there are two of them.

I meant to type gimbal. :-)  They were bought here at Headfi a while ago and came with a second generation wooden box. A very nice sounding pair, I prefer them to the black 325 with the HP1000 drivers.

post #19 of 64

Don't forget about the alessendro models! They're built in house even though they carry a different name.

 

I feel a bit sad when I look at all of the products grado has made and yet stopped the production of by far their two best models, the hp1000 and the ps1-pro.

Can you imagine how many of those would sell at the $1000-1250 dollar new price range?? 

 
 

Edited by Chefguru - 6/28/12 at 4:15pm
post #20 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguru View Post

 

I feel a bit sad when I look at all of the products grado has made and yet stopped the production of by far their two best models, the hp1000 and the ps1-pro.

Can you imagine how many of those would sell at the $1000-1250 dollar new price range?? 

 
 

It is impossible for Grado Labs to produce HP1000 now. They don't even have the parts or drivers to repair them. Even if they had, the new ones would not be the same as the existing ones. They were hand made by both John and Joe, with Joe finishing every single pair. 

post #21 of 64
Thread Starter 

The HP 1000 was Joe attempt at making a miracle headphone that would revive his company, or give it a last breath. He did managed to make the best studio reference monitor in world (at the time it truly was), nothing too surprising coming from Joseph Grado the engineer, but it still took Grado Labs --or "Joseph Grado Signature Products", because the HP 1000, HPA-1-2, Grado Reference Interconnects and Adapter were all made under and sold by separate entity; but promoted remotely by Grado Labs, Brooklyn-- from 1990 to 1995 (= about 200 headphones per year) to sell their stock. Now, by looking at Grado's history we realize that they were sold in parallel to both the SR1-2-300 and the SR1-2-325 much more popular series of headphones. This was John Grado the business man's more successful attempt. What we learn at the end of the day is that the HP 1000 were only a a one-shot, in a time when there was no internet for people to gather and realize how good the headphone was and ascertain its potential, like we do best. Still, we owe to this hollow episode all of our Grado headphones.

 

 

The PS-1, I'm not sure, but it was intended to be a FreeSystems (German wireless digital audio technology company) limited edition product and kit, made in collaboration with Grado, and at a RRP of 3800 USD (source wikipedia). So a failed idea/proof of concept left Grado with 250 Germany-intended blank high-end headphones, that were eventually (two years later) stamped "PS-1" on them and given to TTVJ to sell (*edit: I just learned he sold 48 in total, about 2 per months, during 2 years, the 200 other PS-1 were sold by the German distributor in Germany). I think their rarity and the fact they happened to cost twice as much as Grado flagship at the time (RS1: 700, PS1: 1300-400) than left a more or less justified permanent mark in Head-Fi's state of mind. You go at the Head-Fi poll "which one of the HP 1000 and PS-1 do you prefer" and the ones who listened to both said they preferred the PS-1 for it's bass and because it was more exclusive. I think they are really lame arguments. Head-Fi's reception of the PS-1 was a lot better than that of the PS-1000, and the old-timers still around that aren't into Grado anymore still have a very positive image on the back of the headphone.

 

I gather all types of opinion, pcf prefers both the super vintage RS-1s and the PS-1000 to his PS-1, but ATHFANe" Chinese Head-Fier preferred it above all headphones including the R10 (although everyone disagreed with the proposition when I mentioned it in the HP2i thread; and I think I would also disagree, having a certain idea the limits of the John Grado driver).

 

I would be the first one to pay a lot to own a newer one-piece machined metal cups Grado headphone, in the vein of the HP-1000, but I don't think it'll ever happen.


Edited by devouringone3 - 6/29/12 at 8:15pm
post #22 of 64

Not sure if I said I prefer PS1000 to PS1 but I certainly won't put PS1 above all other headphones!

post #23 of 64
I know the history of the ps1 and hp1000 very well (first hand see my profile join date!). I owned one of the very first ps1-pros todd ever sold! Ive also talked to joe about why th hp1000 hasn't been rereleased, I understand, doesn't make me still wish lol.
More than even just the sound (which is the real reason above all else) both of these models were made at such a higher build quality, Probably my biggest pet peeve with the ps1000. It's like they tried to cut every corner ...yet charge how much ?
post #24 of 64

hmm... I wonder about the Alessandro series

post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguru View Post

I know the history of the ps1 and hp1000 very well (first hand see my profile join date!). I owned one of the very first ps1-pros todd ever sold! Ive also talked to joe about why th hp1000 hasn't been rereleased, I understand, doesn't make me still wish lol.
More than even just the sound (which is the real reason above all else) both of these models were made at such a higher build quality, Probably my biggest pet peeve with the ps1000. It's like they tried to cut every corner ...yet charge how much ?

 

I am fully aware of your experience and expertise. wink.gif

PS1000 does feel cheaply built compared to the other two headphones.

post #26 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcf View Post

Not sure if I said I prefer PS1000 to PS1 but I certainly won't put PS1 above all other headphones!

 

I was only thinking about this post really: http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/3240#post_8446105

 

Maybe I misunderstood what your "three picks" were about.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguru View Post

I know the history of the ps1 and hp1000 very well (first hand see my profile join date!). I owned one of the very first ps1-pros todd ever sold! Ive also talked to joe about why th hp1000 hasn't been rereleased, I understand, doesn't make me still wish lol.
More than even just the sound (which is the real reason above all else) both of these models were made at such a higher build quality, Probably my biggest pet peeve with the ps1000. It's like they tried to cut every corner ...yet charge how much ?

 

Are you mainly regretting the old square rods and metal rod tips, more padded head bands (a lot of that stuff that is found on vintage RS1s, including better leather brown headbands), tighter metal arc for the headband? Quite a bunch of people complain about Grado's built quality but I've never understood too much why. Their headphones have always been the same, and they've made so many of them. Plus, I've just read somewhere that Grado actually has had more issues with square rods than with round ones, overall.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by power911 View Post

hmm... I wonder about the Alessandro series

 

I'm adding them to my second post as entries, and I will try to figure out dates!


Edited by devouringone3 - 6/30/12 at 2:07am
post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

Are you mainly regretting the old square rods and metal rod tips, more padded head bands (a lot of that stuff that is found on vintage RS1s, including better leather brown headbands), tighter metal arc for the headband? Quite a bunch of people complain about Grado's built quality but I've never understood too much why. They're headphones have always been the same, and they've made so many of them. Plus, I've just read somewhere that Grado has had more issues with square rods than with round ones, overall.

 

 

It's everything, but the main issue is that all current production Grado headphones are glued together with simple rubber cement. It's put on carelessly and is not the best solution to connecting the two pieces of the earcup. The ps1-pro and the hp1000 series are the only two models held together with hex screws. Not only does this improve the life spand, but allows for easier repairs and prevents glue from altering the sound. 

 

The secondary issues are the cheaper-type headband (vs the hp1000 series which fits much better and is made of real quality leather), plastic ear cup pieces that don't hold in place with screws, plastic rod tips, cheaper quality cable then the hp1000 etc... 

Take a headphone like the hd800, where they actually pushed the boundaries of what was possible, creating a new type of driver, in a size never done before, working with a new design and tried to make it as light as possible... then you look at the ps1000 which is priced at about the same as the hd800 and all they did was take the exact same design they've always tinkered with, put an extra hole in the driver, gave the pads some extra foam, and put more bling on the outside to make it look different (which in reality just made it heavier).

The R&D at Grado is dead, it died when Joe left the building. The whole company at this point is marketing. Finding ways to make things cheaper, finding other ways to make the same product more interesting.

The hp-1000 was the best product they ever made and everything else is just going to be an off shoot from it.

 

 
post #28 of 64
Thread Starter 

Oh well, sure if you're comparing the one piece machined aluminum anti-resonant alloy of the PS-1 and the overall design of the HP-1-2-3 you're going to be deceived with nowadays Grado :P.

 

I think I'm less pissed off at Grado's most recent headphones than you because I've never heard them, maybe ignorance is bliss, but knowing myself I could also fall in love with them. I personally don't care for the glue, and I prefer the usability of the flexible John Grado headbands over the stiff steel arc of the HP 1000 (which has also won me over the current day Grados).

 

Personally I'm also really wondering what's the effect of making bigger cups or making wood/metal hybrids, I have little experience with these headphones (never heard them). I don't think there are much effects at all. I just think it's a different grade of driver that makes up most of the sound improvements (which is logical of course). Inside of me, I would really like them to develop a completely new, better driver (Rhydon did it, so why not?), to remove the flaws that are present in all Grado headphones, from the iGrado to the PS1000, like the peaks, and the excessive highs and stuff, to apply it I'd say only to their higher end headphones (GS and the PS-1000, which new driver's could be a lot better adapter to their gigantic size), and to reintroduce the PS-1 as a HF-3, and no need to change the recipe for that one. But that would be too much to ask Grado are stubborn, and kind of conservative of their traditions.

 

If they do that I'll have a hard time picking which models I'll want to buy first with my money... well the HF-3 of course... but after that?

 

Lol I'm the only one on Head-Fi who cares absolutely none about an headphone's weight, by putting a small cushion under its headband on my head.

 

I'm also more optimist in the sense that I believe Grado are continually doing their best, but that this "best" would have never kept up with Joseph Grado if he had continued, because he's just too good of a engineer :D.


Edited by devouringone3 - 6/30/12 at 2:33am
post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

I was only thinking about this post really: http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/3240#post_8446105

 

Maybe I misunderstood what your "three picks" were about.

 

 

 

 

 

Haha, you didn't misunderstand. It was all in black and white and I did put PS1000 ahead of PS1 at the time. Sorry about the bad memories and confusion.

To be honest, I hardly use these headphones now and don't miss them. Whether one is better than the other is not so important to me anymore.

post #30 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcf View Post

Haha, you didn't misunderstand. It was all in black and white and I did put PS1000 ahead of PS1 at the time. Sorry about the bad memories and confusion.

To be honest, I hardly use these headphones now and don't miss them. Whether one is better than the other is not so important to me anymore.

 

You listen to the HP 1000i all the time??? or you've literally moved away from Grado, and keep your collection safely locked in the attic? :P

 

You would call it a Grado break or do you really prefer, I don't know, your Stax, or your LCD-2?

 

 

Also please check your profile's bulletin board I asked a question that might require you to take back out your SR325 (with HP 1000 drivers) and any HP1 or 2/-i to compare to ;) or maybe you won't need to do that at, if you already noticed that contrasting aspect of your these two headphones. Basically my HP1 sounds almost twice as loud (~3 dB, very noticeable, it's flagrant) as my SR325-0, at a given volume.


Edited by devouringone3 - 6/30/12 at 3:12am
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