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Help me listen to vinyls again :) - Page 2

post #16 of 23
well, the soundhifi link just says it all, doesn't it? If you can get a table with a Funk Firm arm and an AT-OC9 or AT33EV ML for under €600 go for it.

Actually, I was working towards a path for the future where algloom could upgrade the cartridge to one of those Audio Technica cartridges (low output MC) or the Dynavector 10X5 (high output MC). I have had a AT-OC9 and it is s w e e t. At the moment I have a Dynavector Karat D17MK2 in my Pro-ject Perspective (which I'm going to sell but without cart; unfortunately mine is a bit above budget and I'n not really keen on sending it by post).

The best path is to get a good TT+arm that can carry a good MC cart. The MC + MC-phono (or MM-phono + transformer which is even better) comes later when you are ready to upgrade. Then maybe a seperate motor control (Pro-ject speedbox isn't that expensive) or better cabling (direct from cart to phono-pre). Then later still you can consider a better TT, a really good one, and you can keep the cart. You can upgrade to a better phono-pre any time. That's allways a sensible upgrade. Just like a stable base. But that you can make yourself very easyly: take a slab of stone, put it on 2 spikes on the front and foam or a spring or an airpocket or w/e that you can use as a soft damped spring on the back and you're set. You can tune the very low resonance frequency by moving the spikes closer to the edge or closer to the centre of gravity (like the swing on a coocoo-clock or weight on a metronome).
Edited by ]eep - 6/27/12 at 7:26pm
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ]eep View Post
If you can get a table with a Funk Firm arm

:) Sounds like sound advice :P Thank you for everyone who has posted so far.

God I am so confused. I have discussed this same subject with a few mates of mine, read these forums, googled myself to death and the conclusion? 

Some say that I should go for the 1200 mk2.
Some say that 1200 mk2 is bad for home usage.
Some say that I should get a belt driven system, others that a direct drive is better.
Project products have also been suggested multiple times, as AT-LP1240-USB

But all of those seem so different and to be frank, I am more confused than before.

:D

post #18 of 23
Quote:

He just said he has 600 max available lol...

 

With all due respect I think you are missing the point here...

 

Knowledgeable and experienced audiophiles who have the wherewithall to purchase a $6,000+ turntable assembly are choosing to base their prefered system on something virtually everyone can afford. $600 will get you a recon 1210, a more than adequate MM cartridfge and a decent phono stage.

 

 

Quote:
I am more confused than before.

 

 

Don't simply base your decision on this thread and the opinions of a few mates. This topic comes up regular as clockwork. Do a wider intertubes search on the subject. you will find that whilst there is no agreed universal solution every single thread will contain several recommendations for the Technics.

 

Not only that. It's a no risk choice. If anything the Technics will appreciate in value over time. No one will offer you jack **** for a geriatric second hand belt drive.

post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldDumsfeld View Post

With all due respect I think you are missing the point here...

Knowledgeable and experienced audiophiles who have the wherewithall to purchase a $6,000+ turntable assembly are choosing to base their prefered system on something virtually everyone can afford. $600 will get you a recon 1210, a more than adequate MM cartridfge and a decent phono stage.

What point? I can't make heads or tails of what you are saying. You mean that people who can afford a $6000 TT don't buy the best they can afford, and want, but go for a cheaper compromise? That's like saying that there is no use in buying vinyl. Thats illogical nonsense (yes thats a pleonasm).
Try to be a bit more articulate pls. You are confusing us simple non-native English speaking persons.
Quote:
Not only that. It's a no risk choice. If anything the Technics will appreciate in value over time. No one will offer you jack **** for a geriatric second hand belt drive.
That is a plain bold lie.
NObody cares for old 2nd hand DD turntables. Just look at the ads. Maybe the 1200 is an exception but only because it has a cultstatus among DJ's who don't care or have no discernment about soundquality.
I've seen really really old Thorens and Garrard TT's that are still handled with care and competing with very expensive new TT's. Quality never comes cheap and quality turns in to vintage classics someday (maybe). There are some DD TT's that achieve that status (some Technics, Denon Micro Seiki? come to mind) but most of them can't hold a candle to a good modern belt-drive.

To prove you are lieing and offer some perspective: look at these prices at audiogon. The cheap stuff are the 'geriatric' DD TT's. The belt drives are the current ones and are fetching real good prices. FYI audiogon is the place for serious hifi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by algloom View Post

smily_headphones1.gif Sounds like sound advice :P Thank you for everyone who has posted so far.


God I am so confused. I have discussed this same subject with a few mates of mine, read these forums, googled myself to death and the conclusion? 


Some say that I should go for the 1200 mk2.

Some say that 1200 mk2 is bad for home usage.

Some say that I should get a belt driven system, others that a direct drive is better.

Project products have also been suggested multiple times, as AT-LP1240-USB


But all of those seem so different and to be frank, I am more confused than before.
Some people know how to complain about free choice. biggrin.gif
I'm not saying the 1200 is bad, but it's a dead end IMHO. It depends on the price too. If you can buy it for €250 it's okay but you can do so much better.
It al depends on your needs. DJ and hifi use make different demands on the player.

I have 30ys experience in hifi, vinyl and PA, I don't see how I could give a more differentiated or sound advice.
Edited by ]eep - 6/28/12 at 10:56am
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ]eep View Post

OK, I feel I must comment ...................................... to MM again.
I have more to say but I need to go to sleep now....

Much more than with digital, personal experience and taste matter when it comes to vinyl. My recommendations are based on my personnal experiencies... I aligned many cartridges myself, with all the tools that would cost no more than the entire player. And believe me, I am gifted in fine mechanics and precision. However, I had to give up when I listened to my old gear, tuned by a good professional, who knew what he does and had the right tools to do it (more expensive than my player). Unless you want to spend more in balances etc. than you do spend for your player, have it done by a pro, it won't cost a fortune! However, for pure loyaity, you will probably have to buy at least the cartridge or the player with this one. But it's worth it. Yes, once you have nice MC, and a nice MC preamp that fits right, you will not go back to any MM. However, already a good MC preamp is over your toutal budget. And a cheaper MC preamp will be just disappointment. So... maybe the Reson thing lacks imagination. But I can assure you, it sounds just as good as this money can. I know this gear for 20 years now (not only turntables) and I have critically compared to many others. However, everything remains a question of taste. Maybe you want to spend months in modding and taking risks, you might get something better at the end for the same money. So its your choice... btw: Ask reson about what is special in their "mod". Its about everything: From the power supply to the single core power cable to the oil put into the bearing. And its true, everything here matters. Cheers!


Edited by ursdiego - 6/28/12 at 2:33pm
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 

Hey lads and gals,

Thank you again for taking the time to respond. I've read though all the responses and somehow I feel that I am smarter when it comes to audio. However I know that I'm still a newcomer when it comes to audio or these devices and kindly ask you to point out some specific models that I can do research on and see how much they cost on ebay, amazon etc.

Thanks again and have a wonderful friday :)

post #22 of 23
Quote:
I feel that I am smarter when it comes to audio.
thank you. tongue.gif
That's what I'm doing it for.

If you have a local shop that has any expertise in vinyl just pay them a visit. It is worth it just to see things with your own eyes, pictures never do a TT justice.
There are also internetsites a plenty that are specialised in vinyl and have good info.
acoustic sounds
Music Direct
Elusive Disc
phonophono.de (Pro-ject)

Then you can search for reviews on several sites.
enjoy the music (archive - analog)
tnt-audio (scroll down to the analog section) see
www.stereophile.com (may be biased)
www.hifitest.de (german)
www.avguide.com
www.positive-feedback.com
www.highfidelity.pl

frown.gif I lost a whole page of text with links and all
...and again mad.gif
I'll recap very short

On alignment:
Again: don't be afraid to align cartridges yourself. There are no absolutes. And as the refinement of your system grows(and the roundness of the needle diminishes to chiselform like line contact of F Gyger) so will the need for better fine adjustment, and so will your experience. Just read the articles on tnt-audio on VTA and a foolproof method how to adjust that will give you some wider perspective than just 'go to a professional'.

On phono-pre:
A good phono pre will cost you more than €100. Maybe €80 with opamp will be ok but a tubed one like the Yaqin MS22B (€120 mm2.5mV) will sound much better. Or the MS12B that can do MC too(+ 1 aux, €210, MM/MC 2.5mV/0.8mV). There are good offer from Pro-ject, Cambridge audio 640p, Bellari VP129 or 130, Musical Fidelity, Creek, Gram Slee etc. but these are mostly more expensive.

On cartridges:
for later upgrade
Denon DL-160
Benz Micro MC silver or gold
Dynavector DV 10X4 MK 2 (maybe the best upgrade for you later icw MS22B)
Audio Technica AT-F7 (HO) or -OC9 (low output but very good combined w/ tubes MM+trannies)
I wouldn't take the budget for the cartridge very far over the value of the TT.

My system so far was the Pro-ject Perspective with DV Karat 17D2MKII 0.2mV + transf. + Jolida JD9 (tubes). That was pretty loud compared to cd-output. I just bought the Clearaudio Performance and put a very old Kiseki Blue MC on it (0.4mV) that's even louder. I could use only the JD9 on MC but that sounds more smeared and noisy. Before that I had a Linn Basic+Akito+Miltek Aurora/AT-OC9/Karat D17MK2/Kiseki Blue. So you see with a stiff middleweight arm like Rega or Pro-ject (or most modern arms) you can mount a wide range of cartridges very well.
Edited by ]eep - 6/29/12 at 7:43pm
post #23 of 23

http://media.avguide.com/Vinyl_Buyers_Guide_2012.pdf
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-turntable/
 

If I hadn't already purchased the U-turn Orbit, I would have bought the Pro-Ject Carbon with Ortofon 2m Red cartridge and cambridge X61p/ pro-ject phono or Musical Fidelity V-lps (if I was feeling crazy). 

 

The Rega RP1 and Music Hall MMF 2.2 are close competitors but because of the include 2m Red, the pro-ject is the clear choice (in my eyes).

 

And I would definitely do the cartridge alignment myself...Buy the Shure tracking force gauge and a test record. Or maybe michael fremers dvd? 

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