Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Is "High-End" audio a scam?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is "High-End" audio a scam? - Page 6  

post #76 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


It's been my best audio purchase since I've gotten into head-fi. It sounds incredible, has gobs of power, and is beautiful to boot. Also, with triode and pentode (direct linear) modes, it's like having two different amps. One that's euphonic and happy, and another that's aggressive and a little pissed off. biggrin.gif

I have started the piggy bank fund for one.... It will do double duty with a nice pair af bookshelfs as well!

post #77 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

I have started the piggy bank fund for one.... It will do double duty with a nice pair af bookshelfs as well!

I drive my Swan Diva 2.1s with it as well, they serve as my desktop monitors. They're a brilliant combo.
post #78 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyhightech View Post

I didn't mean to implay all high-end products are a scam,just most of them. I mean,how can a Krell amp cost $50,000? No amount of engenering and components can justify that!

You have got to hear them first my friend and i think that would change your mind a bit..If your talking about the krell evolution ones you get two monoblocks one for each speaker..You need the westlake audio sm1s to get the best sound out of them and a krell cypher and a krell evolution 2 pre-amp.. perfection doesn't come cheap my friend, look at the price of the nasa space shuttle,that's the territory we are in with krell and westlake audio my friend, it blows your mind, words can't describe how good they sound together,when you here them you can't believe that someone has actually made them with human hands it's out-of-worldly, you can see two speakers but it doesn't sound like it's coming out of speakers, it sounds like they are actually there!


Edited by our martin - 6/29/12 at 3:25pm
post #79 of 995

Affording it is the problem and thus due to most not being able to afford that space shuttle.....it can easily be called (incorrectly) a scam.

post #80 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Affording it is the problem and thus due to most not being able to afford that space shuttle.....it can easily be called (incorrectly) a scam.

It should be for special occasions like weddings!

post #81 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by our martin View Post

It should be for special occasions like weddings!

Buy or rent over 200k worth of equipment....and let the guests test it out...heck yeah! Now that's how you throw a weeding. I'll attend and camp outside of anyone that does this.

post #82 of 995

Problem is that placebo effect is often UNDER ESTIMATED.

post #83 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

Problem is that placebo effect is often UNDER ESTIMATED.

Sad but true, it's hard to tell if you are even under it sometimes..

post #84 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

By the time you add in sales, manufacturing, r&d, etc, There is a lot of compromises in that $1000 amp. They might have built the amp with only $250 dollars worth of parts. The caps or just one of the transformers alone in a high end amp might cost that much. They had to cut corners somewhere. It could be cheap parts, cheap power supply., a lot of extra stuff in the signal path etc. Will it sound good , probably yes, will it be able to pull out that last little bit of detail or be used on a sensitive set of speakers/headphones, maybe not.
Is some of it name brand yes, but some of it is build quality and new designs or features that cant be put into a $1000 amp. A $10k amp might have only $2500 worth of parts in it, but since it is more expensive, it has to be priced higher since less units will be sold in order to make the profits and also needed to research new ideas that years later will trickle down to the lesser when the technology gets cheaper or easier to come by. Get a tube amp and you can realize that the tubes alone can cost as much as the lower end amp all in the effort to try and get that last bit of audio nirvana.
Are all $10k amps worth it no, but some are.

 

Really? I can't imagine what kind of absolute monster of an amp you'd have to spend that much worth of raw parts on. How many transformers and large caps (to populate multiple power supplies I presume) would $2500 buy? That seems a bit far fetched. I know casework is a big cost to factor in too, but it still doesn't justify a five-figure price tag if you ask me.

post #85 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by OJNeg View Post

 

Really? I can't imagine what kind of absolute monster of an amp you'd have to spend that much worth of raw parts on. How many transformers and large caps (to populate multiple power supplies I presume) would $2500 buy? That seems a bit far fetched. I know casework is a big cost to factor in too, but it still doesn't justify a five-figure price tag if you ask me.

It is not exclusively an issue of parts costs. Many of the high end companies design their own proprietary components. Research and design happen when engineers do their work. They like to get paid. If there is a substantial amount of time involved then costs go up. More esoteric designs require materials that are more costly (Beryllium for tweeters as an example). Then you have marketing and distribution. Innovation is not always cheap and quick. So, costs do go up. The consumer gets to decide if the cost benefit ratio is to their own advantage. For most of us there is a limit to what we are willing to pay or can actually appreciate. admit it though....Wouldn't you really like a nice Audio Research setup attached to some Wilson Speakers? Ferrari anyone?  biggrin.gif

post #86 of 995
Quote:
Really? I can't imagine what kind of absolute monster of an amp you'd have to spend that much worth of raw parts on. How many transformers and large caps (to populate multiple power supplies I presume) would $2500 buy? That seems a bit far fetched. I know casework is a big cost to factor in too, but it still doesn't justify a five-figure price tag if you ask me.

For example, take a look at my skylla dac. It is a 10K dac. I would say it is reasonable that it would have around $2.5K worth of parts by the time you add the tubes, custom transformers, top of the line caps, the harder to get 1704k DAC chips, the case etc... This doesnt count assembly, marketing, mark up for a profit, and all the other costs involved.

284
post #87 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

It is not exclusively an issue of parts costs. Many of the high end companies design their own proprietary components. Research and design happen when engineers do their work. They like to get paid. If there is a substantial amount of time involved then costs go up. More esoteric designs require materials that are more costly (Beryllium for tweeters as an example). Then you have marketing and distribution. Innovation is not always cheap and quick. So, costs do go up. The consumer gets to decide if the cost benefit ratio is to their own advantage. For most of us there is a limit to what we are willing to pay or can actually appreciate. admit it though....Wouldn't you really like a nice Audio Research setup attached to some Wilson Speakers? Ferrari anyone?  biggrin.gif


Well, I was speaking specifically about amplifiers. There is a lot more R&D that goes into speaker design obviously, especially if you are manufacturing your own components.

 

But as I said before, audio amplifiers are very simple devices. There's no major innovations and research going into Class-A power amps, and similar circuits are used pretty much across the board as far as I know.

post #88 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by OJNeg View Post


Well, I was speaking specifically about amplifiers. There is a lot more R&D that goes into speaker design obviously, especially if you are manufacturing your own components.

 

But as I said before, audio amplifiers are very simple devices. There's no major innovations and research going into Class-A power amps, and similar circuits are used pretty much across the board as far as I know.

Until you open up the box and see that they are off the shelf or not then it is hard to go farther into the discussion. Even if they are using top grade generic parts there is still the issue of time spent and what they felt it was worth. I certainly agree many components are WAY over priced. Many are arguably worth their high cost (read that state of the art), but I am not going to pay it. The fun, for me is finding that great affordable piece that adds something interesting to my current rig.

post #89 of 995

Sorry it went on twice for some reason, heres a song!


Edited by our martin - 6/24/12 at 4:31am
post #90 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by our martin View Post

Yamaha A-S500

You can get this for around £200 now,and i agree if you shop around and buy separates you will end up with something good for a nice price!
100100
5
 
 
 
 

Best stereo amplifier up to £500, Awards 2010. Yamaha cracks the budget stereo amp nut: a stunningly capable product

Write your own review
  • For

    Strikingly clear and dynamic; fine timing; impressive resolution; plenty of features

  • Against

    Doesn't like harsh partnering kit

Yamaha isn't the first name to come to mind when the subject of budget stereo amplifiers comes up.

It's not that the company can't do audio – a raft of five-star ratings for multichannel amps and the quality of the upmarket A-S2000 proves otherwise – but when it comes to budget, others such as Marantz, Rotel and Cambridge do it better. Up until now, that is.

Yamaha went far further than most manufacturers and benchmarked this new amp against the very best at this price level. The result of all that work is a clear class leader.

Its sound is strikingly clear, having little of the overtly smooth, slightly soft balance of Yamaha's pricier stereo units. Instead, we get a fast, rhythmically taut sound that's as exciting as it is informative.

Used with well-behaved speakers and electronics – Monitor Audio's BX2s and Marantz's CD6003 CD player, say – the A-S500 shines.

Decent scale, agile sound
Its 85w per channel output generates decent scale, and the sound is agile enough to resolve a complex mix like Eminem's Not Afraid, while having the sophistication to make to make Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata sound like the slice of magic it is.

Tonally the A-S500 is slightly bright, but in any sensibly chosen system this only contributes to the sense of sparkle.

The phono stage is perfectly usable, though there are loses in transparency and dynamics. That said, the same can be said of those fitted to the competition, too.

If you want a generously specified amp that you can plug in and forget, it's the 'S500. If you want the most entertaining sound at around £300 it should be your choice, too. Who'd have predicted that?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Is "High-End" audio a scam?