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Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions. - Page 7

post #91 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

Not everyone hears the same PS1000's (or other Grados for that matter), because many don't drive them with a set up that matches them well.  With the right amp and DAC, Grados do not have strident highs, they are smooth and clear, and they have a much larger soundstage than many report.  They require an amp that has very low impedence and high current output (like the RA1, or X-Can V8, or various others), which prevents clipping, tames their highs and expands the soundstage.  With a poorly matched set up, they sound harsh and rough, without any soundstage, which is the result of clipping and distortion, because such amps can't control their drivers well.  Virtually every comment you see, which reports such aberations in their sound, is the result of a poorly matched set up.  Which is the reason Grado offers matching amps to drive their phones - though, you can find amps that drive them better than the RA1.  

 

I don't think that's accurate. most negative comments on the PS1000 have been from members who have heard lots of high end headphones (the PS1000 are pretty expensive for people new to the hobby to try out) and have been connected to very good amps and sources.

 

To say that "virtually every comment you see" that is negative is a result of a poorly matched setup is a little bit insulting to the people who have commented on them.

 

When I was considering buying the PS1000, and when I owned them, I read lots of comments about them. And they were impressions from members who have better amps than the RA-1, to be sure.

 

The negative comments were not that the PS1000 has no soundstage or was clipping or rough. The comments said the PS1000 have a big soundstage, but they also have large treble peaks and valleys and exagerated bass kick with rolled off sub bass. Not surprisingly, people in the market for a TOTL headphone may not like such obvious colorations. Some might, though.

 

Connecting a PS1000 to an RA-1 won't "fix" that sound. that's the nature of the PS1000. You can get an amp that shelves the treble beyond what it should and then the PS1000 might sound smoother but a neutral amp will reveal the PS1000's character. I'm not just basing this on other member's comments but on my experience, as well.

post #92 of 193

Its not difficult to control the drivers in a Grado. Not exactly hard to drive phones. Any half decent amp will do it perfectly well.

 

So always blaming the amp or system synergy for any issues with the sound of the Grado phones is a bit of a cop out.

post #93 of 193
Thread Starter 

Honestly, I was holding by posting my replay to it, cos don't want to replay myself over and over again, also getting in discussion about the matter that others don't really experienced yet, such as direct comparison first and present run of PS1000, but anyway...

 

Personally I think that RA1 is nothing special, nothing. I tried this nice looking amp with RS1 and GS1000 and both were thin and lifeless sounding. Of course, if you put USD5k source in front of it, it may sound better, but whatever, that's for some other man wallet.  I found PS1000 more forgiving, regarding the amp, than say GS1000 or even RS1 and while my Cary ( output impedance 4-50Ohm ) aren't "ideal" partner for them, it was simply stunning compared to Audio Technica HA5000 and SPL Phonitor, where many of who may try it, would be not just happy, but settled for life, but sorry, there are some things involved that don't do any justice for PS1000. My Koss KSC75 have much better going on, regarding the depth, extension, speed, drive, energy and lower end when we talking about how they growing when paired with Cary. Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about the high end stuff only up here, more or less the whole picture, especially when you push the volume up, no way that PS1000 are the winner, compared to KCS75's I mean. The only thing where the Grado wins, is their home made coloration in sound that makes certain genres, or would I say, instruments and voices reproduction, simply amazing sounding, that's it. The rest I found more mediocre than a truly high end. With all respect, if I have to push my wallet that high to get that only, I will spend my money on other things with ease. If you twicked SR225 a little, you will be there with that kind of amazing coloration already. For the rest, I would choose AKG K1000 above any day.

 

I am very surprised that RS1 & PS1000 sound that similar to you, cos GS1000 made that huge difference already, which to me, no way the same sounding as PS1000 either. I found them to be more airy than PS1k, having more space, clarity and less mess in sound.

 

THX

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

Not everyone hears the same PS1000's (or other Grados for that matter), because many don't drive them with a set up that matches them well.  With the right amp and DAC, Grados do not have strident highs, they are smooth and clear, and they have a much larger soundstage than many report.  They require an amp that has very low impedence and high current output (like the RA1, or X-Can V8, or various others), which prevents clipping, tames their highs and expands the soundstage.  With a poorly matched set up, they sound harsh and rough, without any soundstage, which is the result of clipping and distortion, because such amps can't control their drivers well.  Virtually every comment you see, which reports such aberations in their sound, is the result of a poorly matched set up.  Which is the reason Grado offers matching amps to drive their phones - though, you can find amps that drive them better than the RA1.  

 

 

And... as far as which I prefer... the RS-1's vs the PS1000's (or PS500's) - I'm not sure... I haven't decided yet.  They sound very, very similar.  The RS-1's are just so clear and detailed, but so are the PS1000's.  At times I think I prefer the RS-1's... and at others... maybe the PS1000's... or... maybe the RS-1's... or maybe...

post #94 of 193

Could you elaborate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

you guys have got it bad. wink.gif

post #95 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

...

THX

 

The only logical explanation is that you bought a defective pair. Each time I take my PS1000 to a GS1000 owner, he reports improvement on several fields - better bass impact, mass and extension, fuller and more complete midrange, lower sibilance if any. Just the soundstage is less magical. Violins, piano, distorted guitars and human voices are the fields of biggest progress from the GS1k to the PS1k. However I each time refer to mine produced in 2009.

post #96 of 193
Thread Starter 

Cant say that, cos nothing were strange to me, not to guy who bought them from me, more even, he was shocked how good they were and thats from my iAudio player only:-)

 

I think we have a huge misunderstanding up here, thats why I try do not replay anymore, its pointless to tell each other things that we can not hear, mean, sit next to each other and try out together and then talk. To me, like you already described up here, PS1000 are improvement of GS1000 as well, but I dont see this like improvement only, they arent the same sounding either. I dont think, like some others may do, that PS1000 are GS1000 with no failures. To me, they are differ and both still have own failures.

We all know very well, at least I remember this, how well the prototype of GS1000 were received, but after the production started, many of the same guys, who tried an proto, were shocked about how far the final model was from it. Strange enough, I couldnt believe in it and thought that the guys were simply bashing them and this will stay a mistery for me. After experimenting with several high end amps I finally got them to the level they could be called high end sounding, so, the fact that many of users say the same about PS1000 is not strange to me, but...When the same model in very short period get 2 ( maybe 3, but not sure ) differ cup material, one way or another, something must be wrong. To me, you change the material, you change the sound. I guess that John tuned the drivers, after he changed the cup material, to keep the sound signature at the same level, but you cant tune the material itself and I suspect that the resonance I have expirienced with my model is the result of that, that the new material cant take it at the same level as the older model does.

I only wish I could compare the two, but nobody I know localy had them and my local shop arent flexible enough to have one around for just audition, thats why it will be only my idea about possible problem, which some may call speculation, but its o.k. with me and I dont really care anymore. I accepted the fact and moved.

 

THX

Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post

The only logical explanation is that you bought a defective pair. Each time I take my PS1000 to a GS1000 owner, he reports improvement on several fields - better bass impact, mass and extension, fuller and more complete midrange, lower sibilance if any. Just the soundstage is less magical. Violins, piano, distorted guitars and human voices are the fields of biggest progress from the GS1k to the PS1k. However I each time refer to mine produced in 2009.

post #97 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

Could you elaborate please?

 

it was oblique. wink.gif

post #98 of 193

hey blackmore, the metal ear cups for the ps1000 have always been made from the same alloy as i understand it. grado advised that the chrome finish was introduced because it is more consistent (i'm presuming cosmetically), more durable and adds a little more mass, which grado claims is beneficial for controlling resonances. they also advised that the chrome is a more expensive finish than the original matte. smile.gif

post #99 of 193
Thread Starter 

Well, alloy are very abstract concept and when you create one to have specific purpose then all those differ ingredients are coming in picture, so, one extra or less ingredient may have a huge influence in the whole, while could be explained as the look change only.

By the way, there is already a picture of polished model with some cosmetic issue, seems that the cups can't take the heavy duty use or just react on something that get them kind of oxidant, they are getting nasty on those grab places, so, for those who still own PS1000, keep your hands clean and dry, but better use the soft cotton gloves.

 

THX

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

hey blackmore, the metal ear cups for the ps1000 have always been made from the same alloy as i understand it. grado advised that the chrome finish was introduced because it is more consistent (i'm presuming cosmetically), more durable and adds a little more mass, which grado claims is beneficial for controlling resonances. they also advised that the chrome is a more expensive finish than the original matte. smile.gif

post #100 of 193

well that's what grado advised. i'm just relaying it in the hope of dispelling conspiracy theories. wink.gif

post #101 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

hey blackmore, the metal ear cups for the ps1000 have always been made from the same alloy as i understand it. grado advised that the chrome finish was introduced because it is more consistent (i'm presuming cosmetically), more durable and adds a little more mass, which grado claims is beneficial for controlling resonances. they also advised that the chrome is a more expensive finish than the original matte. smile.gif

 

Actually! a change happened in the recipe somewhere between the #184

400

 

and the #217

400

 

#184 on the left, #217 right

700

 

 

The chrome finish on the SR325is was removed for similar reasons (but the opposite of what you said) because it was too difficult to achieve with consistent quality

700

 

Blackmore it's got to be this picture you're talking about:

1000

 

I personally don't think it was caused by the owner, I can't imagine polished metal loose it's shine just like that (I would blame Grado quality control department), but I'd agree in that this spot is where the fingers go when you put on or remove your headphones (so if erosion is to occur it would be here).

 

 

The couple first PS 500s (/prototype) were also chromed but they introduced their newest "powder finish" and they've been sticking to it for their SR325is and PS500 ever since.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

it was oblique. wink.gif

 

Could you elaborate please?


Edited by devouringone3 - 8/17/12 at 1:16am
post #102 of 193

 Wow ~ Ok, this is getting interesting - weighed my own pair the other day on a commercial electronic scale that is

 pretty reliable from memory - 500 grams - exactly - 550grams with the cable coiled on the scale.

 

 These are fairly sizable differences - 50 gram differences on the same model, nothing to sneeze at when contemplating

 the weight of a headphone smile.gif

post #103 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwarmi View Post

 Wow ~ Ok, this is getting interesting - weighed my own pair the other day on a commercial electronic scale that is

 pretty reliable from memory - 500 grams - exactly - 550grams with the cable coiled on the scale.

 

 These are fairly sizable differences - 50 gram differences on the same model, nothing to sneeze at when contemplating

 the weight of a headphone smile.gif

 

We can't see the cables in yhe pictrues above,but if the weight of the cables are included (wich i don't think they are) that would mean that yours are somewhere in the middle,i'm curious to know how much mine weight,they're #1754 by the way,what # are yours Gwarmi?


Edited by stacker45 - 8/15/12 at 8:13pm
post #104 of 193

Hi,

 

The PS1000's are incredibly easy to drive. Even an old 1980's Walkman could drive them. I don't think it's a poorly matched set-up at all. I tried them on my V200, which is an amp that should compliment them perfectly, and they sounded sub-par. They are bright by nature and can sound strident, even on a smooth amp. They aren't harsh to my ears but rather they have a GS1000 like signature, but improved. Even then they aren't much better than the $1,000 GS1000. In fact I prefer the GS1000.

 

The RA-1 is a cmoy amp and you can get those anywhere, even on eBay you can find 1:1 clones of those amps for $30. The RA-1 has a very simple circuit. Anyone could duplicate it's sound at 1/8 of the full retail price. Also the RA-1 itself is not that good of an amp for $400, maybe for $40, but not full price. If I want a good amp around that range I'll get a V90, and it would sound far better than the RA-1.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

Not everyone hears the same PS1000's (or other Grados for that matter), because many don't drive them with a set up that matches them well.  With the right amp and DAC, Grados do not have strident highs, they are smooth and clear, and they have a much larger soundstage than many report.  They require an amp that has very low impedence and high current output (like the RA1, or X-Can V8, or various others), which prevents clipping, tames their highs and expands the soundstage.  With a poorly matched set up, they sound harsh and rough, without any soundstage, which is the result of clipping and distortion, because such amps can't control their drivers well.  Virtually every comment you see, which reports such aberations in their sound, is the result of a poorly matched set up.  Which is the reason Grado offers matching amps to drive their phones - though, you can find amps that drive them better than the RA1.  

 

That's also true of the Denons, ATH's and other low impedence phones.

 

And... as far as which I prefer... the RS-1's vs the PS1000's (or PS500's) - I'm not sure... I haven't decided yet.  They sound very, very similar.  The RS-1's are just so clear and detailed, but so are the PS1000's.  At times I think I prefer the RS-1's... and at others... maybe the PS1000's... or... maybe the RS-1's... or maybe...

post #105 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

 

We can't see the cables in yhe pictrues above,but if the weight of the cables are included (wich i don't think they are) that would mean that yours are somewhere in the middle,i'm curious to know how much mine weight,they're #1754 by the way,what # are yours Gwarmi?

 

 #1605 smile.gif

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