Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions. - Page 6

 Thanks for the info on the Denon problem Gwarmo. I was just reading about it. I think I'll buy the spare parts suggested just in case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parula 

 Thanks for the info on the Denon problem Gwarmo. I was just reading about it. I think I'll buy the spare parts suggested just in case.

 No worries Parula - let's just hope that the forthcoming replacement Denonmodels do not suffer from the same issue 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer n roar 

 

i'm not so sure we hear this headphone as similarly as you might think (i'm referring to your post in the grado fan club thread). i heard the mid-range as recessed but not in a bad way. yes, the treble is "tipped-up" but it is superbly detailed and smooth as butter. the ps1000 has astonishing clarity and is the most dynamic, vivid headphone i've heard. and i really can't relate to your comment regarding the imaging and soundstaging of the ps1000 compared to the lcd-3 - i'm with gwarmi there. i was most disappointed with the lcd-3 to be honest. it was stodgy and the treble sounded so shelved down that i thought there was something wrong with it. now the ps1000 is no feather weight, but the lcd-3 is the biggest and heaviest headphone i've tried. the overall effect both physically and sonically was claustrophobic, and it was a relief to free myself of it.

Not everyone hears the same PS1000's (or other Grados for that matter), because many don't drive them with a set up that matches them well.  With the right amp and DAC, Grados do not have strident highs, they are smooth and clear, and they have a much larger soundstage than many report.  They require an amp that has very low impedence and high current output (like the RA1, or X-Can V8, or various others), which prevents clipping, tames their highs and expands the soundstage.  With a poorly matched set up, they sound harsh and rough, without any soundstage, which is the result of clipping and distortion, because such amps can't control their drivers well.  Virtually every comment you see, which reports such aberations in their sound, is the result of a poorly matched set up.  Which is the reason Grado offers matching amps to drive their phones - though, you can find amps that drive them better than the RA1.  

That's also true of the Denons, ATH's and other low impedence phones.

And... as far as which I prefer... the RS-1's vs the PS1000's (or PS500's) - I'm not sure... I haven't decided yet.  They sound very, very similar.  The RS-1's are just so clear and detailed, but so are the PS1000's.  At times I think I prefer the RS-1's... and at others... maybe the PS1000's... or... maybe the RS-1's... or maybe...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwarmi 

 

 I find them to be perfectly complimentary - I cannot recall the last time my DT990-600ohm or even the K601 saw much head time.

 

 Complimentary in the sense that where one shines the other tends fall short concerning the same material at hand. Faced with the

 dilemma of having to choose just either one - RS1i or PS1000 - either ownership is going to be rather different and it will require

 a different mentality towards the music.

 

 The RS1i laps up most the material put in front of it - assuming of course the mastering is of reasonable quality.

 It performs just as any Grado fan would expect - mids are forward, instruments bristle, separation is adequate

 and depending on the recording - they can sound rather airy.

 

 The PS1000 by contrast really excels with large works, in particular live recordings where it tends to just draw a larger sonic

 picture. Having said that - it is never always the case - that seminal work by Clapton - Unplugged - still sounds better on

 the RS1i - for many complicated reasons relating to the PS1000's voicing and the actual recording techniques used at

 the time it was recorded 'live' - Clapton's voice is recessed with the flagship yet it is much more present on the RS1i.

 

 Generalizing that the RS1i will always have more present mids than the PS1000 is again too much of a simplistic

 conclusion - on some other recordings with both units plugged into the V200 - there is hardly anything in it in

 terms of mids presentation, however the PS1000 runs away with it in terms of separation, sound stage and

 detail. The frequency figures may not say much, particularly for those empirically minded to suggest any

 headphone measuring outside of 20hz-20Khz is pointless since it lies outside the range of the human

 ear, nonetheless the respective figures of 12hz to 30Khz for the RS1i versus the PS1000's 5hz to 50Khz

 speaks volumes for the differences between their driver design.

 

 The RS1i remains versatile and very much a great headphone at the price point of $695 - the PS1000

 on the other hand is a 'feast or famine' headphone that I would suggest does not really suit the

 mentality of our times - it reeks of compromise from head-fit to how it will perform across a

 record collection - at this price point - most folks expect perfection and the utmost versatility,

 nobody wishes to say goodbye to a cherished album or twelve simply because their headphone

 does not suit.

 

 Few are prepared to take this compromise and live with it happily on a daily basis.

i think that they are complementary too and like them both for their similarities and differences. i auditioned them with a view to buying one or the other, so i might be evaluating them using different criteria to you including price/performance - as distasteful as that may be to audiophiles. i listened to both phones on the same rig using tracks that i am very familiar with. my brief comparison is in the grado fan club thread so i won't repeat it here but that's how i heard them. and as much as i respect your right to ruminate upon both based on your intimate knowledge of them, i'm afraid that's not going to alter my perception and opinion based on my own audition. i do intend to give them another listen soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 

 

Not everyone hears the same PS1000's (or other Grados for that matter), because many don't drive them with a set up that matches them well.  With the right amp and DAC, Grados do not have strident highs, they are smooth and clear, and they have a much larger soundstage than many report.  They require an amp that has very low impedence and high current output (like the RA1, or X-Can V8, or various others), which prevents clipping, tames their highs and expands the soundstage.  With a poorly matched set up, they sound harsh and rough, without any soundstage, which is the result of clipping and distortion, because such amps can't control their drivers well.  Virtually every comment you see, which reports such aberations in their sound, is the result of a poorly matched set up.  Which is the reason Grado offers matching amps to drive their phones - though, you can find amps that drive them better than the RA1.  

 

That's also true of the Denons, ATH's and other low impedence phones.

 

And... as far as which I prefer... the RS-1's vs the PS1000's (or PS500's) - I'm not sure... I haven't decided yet.  They sound very, very similar.  The RS-1's are just so clear and detailed, but so are the PS1000's.  At times I think I prefer the RS-1's... and at others... maybe the PS1000's... or... maybe the RS-1's... or maybe...

not everyone hears the same period - hence so many differing listening impressions for grados and pretty much any other make and model of headphone you care to name. we've disagreed before in the grado fan club thread over the amping requirements for grados. you think they have quite specific amping requirements and i think the importance of this is overstated based on my own experience. so we should agree to disagree on the subject. and i've found a-t's to be far more sensitive to amping.

yes, the choice between the rs1i and ps1000 proved to be surprisingly difficult. it wasn't as clear cut as i expected, so i'll be giving them another audition in the hope that it clarifies things.

If you value soundstage highly, is it really that difficult of a choice?

the ps1000 is impressive in that and other respects. if i valued an expansive presentation more than timbre then yes, choosing the ps1000 over the rs1i would be a no brainer for me.

I get a MASSIVE sound stage with my Magnepan speakers, and it's really a fun characteristic, but with headphones I think I place quite a bit more emphasis on imaging than i do sound stage. It was one of the first things I noticed about the 80s when i first put them on, and it's something I find the Grados to be quite good at. If the size of the sound stage is one of the big advantages of the PS1000s, then I may not be quite as drawn to them as others might be, especially if the 500s/RS-1s can compete in terms of detail and tonality. I don't know why I'm posting this...just sort of thinking aloud...carry on, gents! 

For me the RS1 are just too plain sounding to be interesting against PS1000 or even GS1000. And I don't agree about more accurate timbre on the RS1. I could agree it's at best equal to that of the PS1000. When I chose the PS1000, the PS500 didn't exist so I haven't tried them but my friend tried them and ended with the PS1000 very happy while he liked the PS500 as well. The amp is the key. For instance, on the Cary SLI-80, bigger Grado's sound much more interesting than smaller. On some others the RS1 gain a bit against the PS1000 but still not enough to compete IMO.

i can understand someone being more "wowed" by the ps1000.  

More and more I've been finding the John Grado drivers reactive to amplification! It magnifies both their flaws and their qualities and it shows you better where are the shortcomings in your chain (could be your headphones). Now I realize better how it can affect the sound of the PS-1000 dramatically (because this Grado is the one to squeeze the most juice out of that plain looking [but highly graded] driver; the juice is abundant already, you want to make sure it's of good quality).

Quote:

Originally Posted by devouringone3 

More and more I've been finding the John Grado drivers reactive to amplification! It magnifies both their flaws and their qualities and it shows you better where are the shortcomings in your chain (could be your headphones). Now I realize better how it can affect the sound of the PS-1000 dramatically (because this Grado is the one to squeeze the most juice out of that plain looking [but highly graded] driver; the juice is abundant already, you want to make sure it's of good quality).

 Definitely ~ not to draw a long bow here for non believers or those yet to try a quality unit but I've really been enjoying

 a very black background and low noise floor since I lashed out on some very decent power cords for my source but

 in particular - the amp. The PS1000 really laps it up. As discussed though in a previous thread - once you have

 settled on your rig, this area is dicey - some power cords are just standard IEC's dressed up in pretty packaging,

 some will work ok with your gear but better with other head-amplifier power supplies (units that you happen not to own!)

 Occasionally, you'll get lucky out of the box and the results will be instantly heard. My advice, *if interested* is

 to seek out a dealer who will allow you to lease the cord for a rental fee - most likely the price of the demo cord

 minus the return fee if it does not produce what you expected.

you guys have got it bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by priest 

 

If you value soundstage highly, is it really that difficult of a choice?

Yes... my RS-1's have a fairly large soundstage - not much different than my PS1000's, especially with the stadium pads (G Cushions).  As I said... it's merely a function of mating them with a setup, which matches their electronic requirements well (i.e. low impedence, high current output).  Many (perhaps most) have never really heard the RS-1's, or many Grados, for that matter. 

the ps1000 distinguished itself from the rs1i in that department when i compared them. i could imagine the rs1i getting part of the way there with the g cush pads but at the expense of frequency balance. what changes do you notice in the rs1i's presentation when you use them?