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Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions. - Page 4

post #46 of 193

I don’t think it’s asking too much for a flagship headphone to have a decent genre bandwidth. That should be assumed. To ask a consumer to spend 1700 dollars on a headphone and say that it’s only good for a couple genres is not a winning proposition.

 

Sure, some of these headphones will be better suited to one genre than another, but no TOTL headphone should be described as “brittle” and “full of resonances” or any other truly negative traits. Not in this price range.

 

I’ve owned the PS1000 (twice, lol) and it has its strengths and I actually wouldn’t say it’s awful at anything but compared to the HD800 and LCD3, it’s too limited in what it can do and just doesn’t sound as good as those other two for a wider variety of music. 


Edited by LCfiner - 7/14/12 at 3:53pm
post #47 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCfiner View Post

I don’t think it’s asking too much for a flagship headphone to have a decent genre bandwidth. That should be assumed. To ask a consumer to spend 1700 dollars on a headphone and say that it’s only good for a couple genres is not a winning proposition.

 

Sure, some of these headphones will be better suited to one genre than another, but no TOTL headphone should be described as “brittle” and “full of resonances” or any other truly negative traits. Not in this price range.

 

I’ve owned the PS100 (twice, lol) and it has its strengths and I actually wouldn’t say it’s awful at anything but compared to the HD800 and LCD3, it’s too limited in what it can do and just doesn’t sound as good as those other two for a wider variety of music. 

 

Since i own the latest (bling bling) version,i think they're number 1255 or something,i'm too lazy to get up and look,anyway,i figure i might add my two cents,i almost feel that i'm the only one who loves his PS1000,and it's not like i havent heard any other high end headphones either,aside from the ones i own,i've heard the HD800,LCD3,T1,HE6,Stax 007, heck i even had the chance to hear some Senns Orpheus a while back,and altough thes are all great headphones,and some of them might sound better than the PS1000 with some musical genres,i must admit that aside from their weight,i have yet to find something i don't like about them,granted i don't listen to Trance,i don't even know what Trance is,and i seldomely listen to classical with headphones,i'm more of a Jazz,Blues,New Age and Pop,kind of guy,ihave to say,i feel lucky in a way,because the PS1000's are very expensive,so i can only imagine how frustrating i must be when they don't live up to you're expectations.

 

Now if i could only get my hands on some PS100,Hmmm!,maybe LCfiner can hook me up!,sorry man i just couldn't pass that one up.


Edited by stacker45 - 7/14/12 at 3:51pm
post #48 of 193

well, you made me edit my post :)

 

sure, there is something really great about the PS1000 and I think it's midrange energy it brings. that’s the main reason to buy that headphone, imo. It’s smooth and has no glare or harshness and it has an energy to it that is very exciting. the bass kicks hard (that’s a bit exaggerated but it’s not boomy as the D5000 is) but what kills me about the PS1000 is the treble peak and the imaging/soundstage. 

 

The treble is just too harsh and sibilant for my taste. It might work with a lot of music but I find it detracts from songs when crashing cymbals lack detail and nuance. I suppose some synergistic rig with some components designed to take the edge off is possible but I don’t like the idea of colouring sound via source or amp. 

 

And, because they have that more forward midrange, the imaging felt less precise and the soundstage smaller and with less noticeable 3D depth than the LCD3. (The HD800 soundstage is really, really large. maybe a little too much for some genres)

 

There were some songs where the PS1000 worked beautifully. But there were too many times when it didn’t just sound right to me.

post #49 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Thanks for your replay and taking your time to read.

 

Just wonder if you listen to any Trance, Electronica or Classical? If yes, you will understand what I mean growing with the music, because trance can demand  a lot from the drivers, I would say excessive performing with frequency response and thats where they failed for me, they just cant take it and stay at the level that make them sound like compressed. Talking about low end, I must say that their resonance is killing for the rest of the spectrum, which made them not balanced enough for me with some tracks that perform brilliant through K1000. I am willing to share more of my thoughts, but first I would like to read more of earlier and present production model imrpessions first.

 

I am not trying to convince anyone ot anything, all I say is that their performance was not at the level others claim and this is the million dollar question WHY? Why some of users are totally crazy about them, while others are not. Tell me why Grado changed the material for 3rd time from the first run? Maybe because many of first run models have had driver failure problem? Or, you just belive in cosmetics issues only? All I know is what I have heard and while they were great with some music, which I mentioned, their general performance were not to die for it, sorry.  

 

To be honest, this is not much fun for me to write this again and again, but when folks dont hear what I am trying to say, well, lets be it then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovleylady View Post

At first post:

 

Wow, it's interesting that we hear so different, I don't recognize any of your issues with the PS-1000, except the problem with comfort. I have sewed on a small cushion under the headband, super comfy now. (Kind of pathetic I think, the design.)

 

I don't really understand what you mean by ''their shortcoming by growing with music''.

 

For how long have you had them?

I ask because for me, after owning them for a year now, they still impresses me more and more for every day. Not implying you need long time with them to like them or that your opinion isn't valid if you haven't had them for a long time, just curious.

 

Thanks for sharing, cheers!

I think the million dollar question is why are people different, in looks, in likes, thinking, hearing?  There is no ONE headphone for everything and everybody.  We're different, see?  And, that's O.K., or at least, it used to be.

post #50 of 193

At Blackmore  View Post:

 

I do listen to that kind of music, still not sure what you mean though but it's ok. Very hard to make ones point when it comes to audio.

 

On the material swaping, I think they only changed the finnish on the cups, not the entire cup itself, shouldn't do any difference at all I believe. As I remember it, this was done to improve durability.

I don't remember the source to my above statment though so don't take it as a fact...

 

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwarmi View Post

 Trance, Electronica, Classical? I don't know Blackmore but I fail to see a coherent pattern here.

...

My personal belief is that one shouldn't generalize too much in terms of genres. Classical music for exampel is extremely wide and it's unlikely that two persons think about the same music when talking about classical music. Maybe if you listened to the same trance, electronic and classical records as Blackmore, you'd agree with him.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwarmi View Post
...

 How can you have both presentations in the one headphone? Resolving, surgically precise on reference

 recordings and then forgiving, sub-dued, not too analytical with most recordings from the last 15 years because

 they stink in the first place. It does not add up in my head.

100% on the same page here Gwarmi, that kind of contradictions really bothers me too.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwarmi View Post

 Just a tangent thought here - I have noticed of late this issue of Head-Fi folk trying to reach nirvana across all these diverse genres

 and yet remaining dedicated to the pursuit of achieving these ends with just the 'one headphone'.

...

Might be a product of people reading a lot of reviews that contains the sort of contradictions mentioned above.

 

Cheers!

post #51 of 193
Quote:

Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

...

There is no ONE headphone for everything and everybody.  We're different, see?  And, that's O.K., or at least, it used to be.

 

Many of us still thinks that's good. We don't want to find ONE headphone that makes us stop wanting more headphones to complement our collections. Complement is a keyword here I think, not replacement. bigsmile_face.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

...

i almost feel that i'm the only one who loves his PS1000

...

You're not gs1000.gif

 

Cheers!

post #52 of 193

 Yes, we are all certainly hearing different things - for example, the notion that you could compare soundstage

 on the LCD-3 to the PS1000 for me is a little baffling confused.gif

 

 I've heard the LCD3's on many different rigs - not much changes - there is no real soundstage to speak

 of either side of the head, forward projection I find to be quite tunnel like. I do on the other hand totally

 love them with any sort of electronic reproduction - they whoop the PS1000's in a big way on that front.

 

 But plonk on some Franky Sinatra Live in Vegas '1966 and the LCD3 does not sound right, there is no ambience

 or sense of 'being there' which the PS1000 conveys almost from the moment you press 'play'.

 

 In terms of vocals - I've got a few Italiano Audiophile recordings - mainly tenor stuff - and there are some

 passages along the way that really raise up the goose bumps. Trying the same recordings with the LCD3's

 (again just my personal experience) - I actively have to remind myself that I should be involved, it is

 not a natural occurence with those things.

 

 If I ever decided to go back to the Beastie boys and all that 90's rap that I used to love then I'd pick up

 an LCD-3 and couple it with the PS1000 - no stone unturned in my book - you'd have all genres covered

 according to personal taste and mood.

 

 @LCfiner

 

 "I don’t think it’s asking too much for a flagship headphone to have a decent genre bandwidth. That should be assumed. To ask a consumer to spend 1700 dollars on a headphone and say that it’s only good for a couple genres is not a winning proposition"

 

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree mate smile.gif Walk into a high end audio expo - straight up to a pair of $265,000

Focal Grande Utopia's - pop open that 'Best of the BackStreet Boys' CD into the tray of that $14,000 dollar Luxman

D-08 reference flagship CD player and take a step back - what comes out? Pure boyband, brittle garbage.

 

It's just so simple in my mind - high end speakers or headphones are sonic microscopes if the recording is not

perfect then you will encounter difficulties that will have to be reciftied usually by EQ (dread) or mix and matching

of equipment in order to attenuate the end result.

 

post #53 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCfiner View Post

well, you made me edit my post :)

 

sure, there is something really great about the PS1000 and I think it's midrange energy it brings. that’s the main reason to buy that headphone, imo. It’s smooth and has no glare or harshness and it has an energy to it that is very exciting. the bass kicks hard (that’s a bit exaggerated but it’s not boomy as the D5000 is) but what kills me about the PS1000 is the treble peak and the imaging/soundstage. 

 

The treble is just too harsh and sibilant for my taste. It might work with a lot of music but I find it detracts from songs when crashing cymbals lack detail and nuance. I suppose some synergistic rig with some components designed to take the edge off is possible but I don’t like the idea of colouring sound via source or amp. 

 

And, because they have that more forward midrange, the imaging felt less precise and the soundstage smaller and with less noticeable 3D depth than the LCD3. (The HD800 soundstage is really, really large. maybe a little too much for some genres)

 

There were some songs where the PS1000 worked beautifully. But there were too many times when it didn’t just sound right to me.

 

Well... the sound of the PS1000's varies greatly with the set up and the tubes used... as well as... their position on your ears.  With some... their bass can be boomy, and treble can be strident... but... with others their bass is perfect as is their treble.  You have to experiment to find their "sweet spot" - but, if you do... find it you will - and, then "nothing else will do."  

post #54 of 193

^^^^This wink.gif

post #55 of 193

 Anyone with first hand experience with the Zana Deux and the PS1000? I know Muppetface owns the combo but does anyone else care to add some input?

 

 My guess is that the sound stage must be massive on that combo, on the HD800/Zana Deux it was pretty spectacular. Amazing that the one amp

 could be a holy grail for two completely different headphones.

post #56 of 193

First i'd like you to be understanding,you see,i took some pain medication,and it's starting to kick in. 

 

Ok,here we go,i agree that there are multiple reasons for liking or disliking a pair of headphones,system compatibility,musical preferences,sound preferences,the way we hear,our references (past or current headphones),i remember when i first got interested in Grado headphones,i had gone to an audio store to buy the Grado 15' extension cable for my Senns HD600,i asked the salesman,if i could compare the RS1,and the HD600,he set me up,with a Rega Apollo cd player and Grado RA1 amp,and within the first few seconds with the RS1,i remember saying to myself,Wow!,i can hear much more details!,and then,Oh crap!,i bought the wrong headphones,and,last,but certainely not least,our expectations,

 

I agree that some headphones are better at reproducing different kinds of music,but so far,the PS1000 sound good with everything i throw at them,i use my HP1000 much less often,and might end up selling my GS1000.

 

In the end,it's all about personnal satisfaction,so the more choices we have,the better,and if someone says he prefers the sound of the SR60i's to that of the PS1000's,who am i to argue,but i have to say,i consider myself very lucky,because i'm getting a lot of satisfaction from my three (two of them vintage) modest sound systems,it's been a long time since i haven't had the urge to upgrade,but right now,it's ''status quo'' for me,for how long?,who knows 

post #57 of 193
Thread Starter 

Here we go:

 

Trance/Electronica ( what ever you call it )

 

Trance Nation mixed by Above&Beyond from Ministry of Sound 2 CD's

 

CD2  Track 7 Cold Blue - Fever

 

From start track is like a plane, taking of and getting higher and around 1,52 its done with his first stage and gets in second part that, basically, starting to let you hear how limited PS1000 actually are, cos around 3.14 is the top of the second part and around 3.17 it gets in the 3rd, which demending absolutely no limit with air and around 4,10 is the top of the part 3, where PS1000 already failed by trying to get there, but they just cant, cos they dont have enough space for extention.

 

 

Jazz&Orkestral

 

Chris Minh Doky - Scenes from a Dream

 

Any track basically, but say track no 1 around 12 seconds Chris starts play acoustic bass and thats it, PS1000 just not capable to absorbe and reproduce it without getting in real trouble, simply called boomy. Next step is when we are around 2.16, acoustic bass plays solo and here we have the same results. As last, we are around 3.00, where piono starts its solo and bass is on the back ground, however still having that huge resonance issue and cant be reproduced tighted enough, so, it simply gets in the way of the rest, which makes PS1000 not balanced at all.

 

Piano & Cello

 

Ketil Bjornstad and David Darling - Epigraphs

 

Track 2 - One word, fantastic. The cello is breathtaking and this is those moments when you dont think of anything, but just enjoy the music.

 

Marcus Miller - Power

 

This particular CD sounded very good through PS1000. I dont know what makes it, but it was good.

 

So, when I am saying that my feeling are mixed up, I am not just pumping the air here. All I do, is try to understand how is it possible that this can be without real problems that PS1000 have, because all records arent bad and have the level of high end, even those Trance tracks are way better than you may come across in general. But each of the record shows particular area where PS1000 bad or good, which makes them not stable/balanced enough and limited in use and not truely high end in that regard.

 

The one I compared PS1000 to were K1000 and while K1000 arent ideal either, they still have much more to offer, where the sky is the limit, however...

post #58 of 193

 

Ketil Bjornstad and David Darling - Epigraphs

 

Track 2 - One word, fantastic. The cello is breathtaking and this is those moments when you dont think of anything, but just enjoy the music.

 

Marcus Miller - Power

 

This particular CD sounded very good through PS1000. I dont know what makes it, but it was good.

 

So, when I am saying that my feeling are mixed up, I am not just pumping the air here. All I do, is try to understand how is it possible that this can be without real problems that PS1000 have, because all records arent bad and have the level of high end, even those Trance tracks are way better than you may come across in general. But each of the record shows particular area where PS1000 bad or good, which makes them not stable/balanced enough and limited in use and not truely high end in that regard.

 

The one I compared PS1000 to were K1000 and while K1000 arent ideal either, they still have much more to offer, where the sky is the limit, however...

 

 

 I really do think it is recording dependent Blackmore - as you stated above, every now and then you hit the pinnacle with these cans - nothing else will do.

 

 The real dilemma for you now is that out for lack of sheer funds or out of personal motivation - you sell the damn things to fund something else and then

 you may find yourself enjoying a bit of the Joni Mitchell remedy down the track

 

 'Don't it always seem to go/that you don't know what you've got/ until it's gone'

post #59 of 193

Re Zana Deux - I heard the OTL version with the PS1000. It's a complete mismatch. Bass is lean, lacking lower octave, not as fundamental to the music as it should be. The trebles are kind of delicate - that's fine. Midrange - it was enough for me to hear trumpet sounding irritatingly sweet and fake overall. I quit after two minutes. Based on my own experiments, the amp shouldn't have more than 6 ohms of output impedance for the tonal balance of the PS1000 to be tolerably correct. Above this, the bass will become overwhelming and partly out of control, so I prefer them with solid state and if it must be tubes, then transformer-coupled preferably as these headphones like swallowing big portions of current from time to time.

 

Regarding music genres - I don't consider them at all. I like what the PS1000 do with any of them while keeping in mind that some headphones would do some of them more justice. Tchaikovsky sounds marvellous and so do dubfx's remixes. While I know in what terms the K1000 are better than Grado, I just refuse to buy them mainly due to their unruly behavior on my head. If I bend a bit to any direction, they slip away because of my smooth hair and adjusting the head cushions doesn't help. Also, their bass extension is insufficient for the genres that I listen to quite often.


Edited by majkel - 7/15/12 at 5:52am
post #60 of 193
Thread Starter 

When I tried GS1000 through ZD, I was shocked with many things they were doing, so, it would not surprise me if PS1000 have the same synergy, however EAR HP4 was just more complete with other things that ZD couldnt do, especially delicacy. Also, I found ZD to powerfull and creating distortion at top end while the volume goes up, while EAR have much flexible volume pot, but thats not strange, cos those amps, while they are close, they are nothing alike.

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