Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions. - Page 11

post #151 of 193

i didn't spend a lot of time with the GS1000i. its presentation didn't sound as full to me as the ps1000, which might be why it seemed even more spacious. 

post #152 of 193
I like my PS-1000s. I haven't listened to a recent pair but I have experience with the very first pair (I own it) and a pair in the 600s.
I currently own (in order of acquiring):

SR60s
RS-1 (very first batch)
PS-1
GS-1000
iGrado
PS-1000
HF-2

In the last few years, I have had or had on long-term loan: HD800s, T1000s, LCD2, Omega II, III and on shorter terms: Omega I and LCD3. I still own the EAR and the lone Melos SHA-X (there is another lesser twin, mine is Arnie, the other is a Danny, but could be an Arnie with some Joe love. Saul has since passed on though, so not sure how that would work out). I have used 2 Woo Audio amps including their stellar 300B-based amp, a prototype Wyetech Labs amp, 300b-based, a prototype Burmeister solid state with the Grados, the Senns and the Audeze LCD2s. The 3s were with the Woo amp.

I've played around with various front-ends including a sickly tricked out Lenco with a Triplanar Arm, another with a Graham Phantom II and yet another with a Dyanvector. All with various carts using either a Wyetech Labs Phono, the EAR 88BP or the EAR solid state phono. Digital has included my tricked out Shanling, an AMR CD-77, a dCS stack, a really really awesome Reimyo prototype that sadly never made it out the door due to parts availability. I've also had some fun with speakers and have either swapped in or out various great models and I've settled on Harbeth for my own home, but have enjoyed Tannoys, Audionotes, Wilsons, Zu and Coincidents. Despite my time with all this gear, in and out - listening, scrutinizing, choosing - the most valuable experience for me, in the past 15 years of this hobby, came from partaking in the Montreal Audio Show this past March. I heard three systems that cost 1 million. I heard plenty from 100k-250k and plenty more in the 50-100k zone. What floored me, despite some very very well set up rooms with treatments etc, was that there are some systems that are well put together and some that are not. Some have components that exude life, and others do not. Money is not a guaranteed determining factor in performance and one man's best is another man's worst. I walked into a Bolder/Sanus Faber room, the second most expensive room, with a stack of gear and cables and power condition and treatments... it looked impressive and those speakers are GORGEOUS! I had my heart set on experiencing aural perfection and walking away with a feeling of elation mixed with sadness knowing that the opportunity to recreate/own such a system would be incredibly rare, and likely never to happen.

Yet, when the music played, everyone silent, looking and listening, I was left unmoved. The sound was incredible. Give me a check list of items or aspects many declare are necessary and it would have likely been a simple hit in the "has" category all the way down. What it didn't have, no matter the music was "life!" The emotion (for myself and a few others I was speaking with afterwards) was unmoving. It lacked any bit of real excitement that titilates the senses. I was left rather cold when moved from unmoved to other. Having never heard any of the components on their own before, I couldn't reliably identify the exact loci of the problems. I could easily indicate that there was an abhorrent LACK of synergy and emotion and life. In fact, only a few systems spoke to my soul it seemed and the two that did so the most were the Audionote room and a room with some Harbeth Monitor 30s. The Audionote room was all Audionote gear with these large corner loaded speakers. They sounded divine and REAL from rock to grunge, from chamber to symphony and small ensemble jazz to female vocal + a solo cello, no matter what there was energy that made the room sound ALIVE. Not just LIVE but actually a creature in and of itself. The Harbeths were partnered with two amps, neither of which really worked well with the speaker given my previous experience with them but it had me convinced: for me, for what I demand from my system, only the Harbeths and Audionotes did this justice.

It was after this weekend that I went home read up on both companies along with Spendors and I planned a purchase. The Audionotes, by their design, were too limiting (they have to be placed in a corner) so I looked to Harbeth. Tom Hankins owned the Harbeth SHL5s, then the 40.1s and having read his many posts here and elsewhere, I knew I could reliably gauge my likely experiences given plenty of unknowns. Thankfully, there is a dealer for Audionote and another for Harbeth in my city. I listened and listened and swapped gear for hours on end in a private well set up room at each shoppe. In the end, as I had determined previously, the Audionotes simply didn't make sense given the need to place them in corners. So they were bumped from the list and I kept at the Harbeths, going through the models, planning the amps and figuring out room size vs. model vs. efficiency vs. short term and long term use. In the end I went with the SHL5s, a unique design in the line given the dimensions. They use a super tweeter that is rolled off around 25kHz and their easy load (rated 86-87 db at 6 ohm, never dropping below 6 and tested to show a rating of 93-94 db) allows a larger variety of amp topologies and power ratings. Even at a hypothetical 94 db, matching amps will be critical. It has forced me to reevaluate a few choices I had made, adding others in their place. The journey has been frustrating but enjoyable too. In the end, when I get the sound just right, I will know it at that exact moment and I will (or hope to) feel a sense of peace and accomplishment. Perhaps so much so that I will get off the merry-go-round for a more years.

My speaker search was not unlike my headphone experiments. I had a need initially (grumpy housemate) that prompted me to search out headphones. I wanted something I could use on the go, at home, laying down on a bed, sitting relaxed in a chair, all these needs were trumped by "good sound." That was back in 1997. I ordered the SR60s after Headroom and Good Cans (the only sites online at the time that were exclusive to headphones and had ample exposure to the top dogs of the time) declared them king for under $100 ($150 CAD at the time) and perhaps the best under $300. In fact Good Cans likened them to the RS-1s at a fraction of the cost. Hmmm, will I suffer confirmation bias once they arrive? Can the RS-1s really only be slightly better? I began to obsess. I already had a pair of headphones that were better than 95%+ of what was available. That didn't matter to me. Too bad too. I could have saved a lot of money right there and then biggrin.gif In the end I schemed to buy the RS-1s. And I found a way by 2001. I had previously purchased the RA-1 so I was at least marginally ready to bring the RS-1s into the home. My player sucked. No denying that. So within six months I had purchased the Shanling.Within 12 I had the first modification done. That 12 month period also saw HP-2s enter my home, shortly thereafter I modified the player again and picked up 5 other HP-1000s. The RA-1 was't enough: enter the Melos SHA-X so named by Jude during a fun contest to name the first Melos ever, a prototype. How good was this thing? I had to know, so more HP-1000s came my way. Between Vka, yidimsum and myself, gosh we had 30 pairs at one time. Vka had an incredible ability to find them and sell them. That Orpheus was a direct result of savvy sales.

Getting back to the phones, as I changed my system, supposedly upgrading each time, I continued to second guess myself. I liked the RS-1s more than the HP-1000s no matter which model (and I not just owned them all, I owned them all at a single time along with SR200s and SR300s). Were folks spoking some serious crack for liking the HP-1000s more? If I preferred the RS-1s, maybe the sickly rare Grado Freestyles may be better still! These were the precursor to the PS-1s and John's all out assault in the metal alloy realm. The Freestyles never made it into my hands, not as a wireless system anyway. I did acquire one of the very first PS-1s, with the Freestyle lettering not entirely rubbed out by the PS-1 stencils. The PS-1s took my lisetning to a whole new level in many ways, mainly with the super liquid midrange. Was the Melos good enough? The best possible for the PS-1s? I preferred the RA-1 quite often to the Melos depending on the tubes I used when listening with the RS-1s. Perhaps the Melos was the best for HP-1000s but something else was best for John's phones. At the time (and I think still true to this day) the Cary 300SEI and the EAR HP4 were considered the best with RS-1s and PS-1s. Having heard the Cary and eventually the EAR, I chose the EAR and still use it to this day. In fact, I have yet to find an amp I prefer with any headphone over the EAR. Yet, that all took time. It took experience listening to various gear, various topologies, at different times with different people in different settings but most of all over significant time frames. All of this helped me stay firm in the camp I'm in which is dominated by Grados. I've had the R10s, the Omega IIs, the HE60s, the HD800s, the T1s, the LCD2s, all available to me to buy if I could swing it. The LCD3s and the ATs I never had the opportunity to own, but given that LCD3s are current, I could own them. But I don't.

Like my decision to go with Harbeths, known for a distinct but exceptionally musical and "REAL" sound, Grados offer me the elements I crave more often in greater degrees than models from other companies. It means I can limit my self-doubt, my festering to perhaps own THE BEST (whatever that might be) and my need to continually sample. In the end I should have trusted the words of the wise, those who are much older, have put in far more years than I had or have even still in this hobby.

1) There is no best
2) The more things change, the more things stay the same
3) It is best to spend money upfront and keep something for a long time, rather than continually buy and sell in hopes of finding THE BEST
4) There is no best
5) The technology is quite mature in audio save for the digital realm (and class D amplification), it means a lot of the gibberish we read online or in the rags are just that, gibberish. Nonsensical hyperbole
without an ancor or familiar base from which outsiders are able to properly judge the words of the writer
6) This hobby is about having fun, enjoying music and getting one's geek on in the realm of acquiring and tinkering with toys.

Last but not least (and really only evident, at least to me, after experimentation and auditioning) everyone has particular tastes with an emphasis on aspects that may or may not intersect with those tastes or must-haves of another.

An end goal speaker-wise may be the Harbeth 40.1s. I'm told they are very big, very tough to match well with amps AND rooms. The 5s offer most of the 40.1s goodies while retaining for themselves something unique and valuable. The 5s play better in most rooms and can be used with SETs with fine results, something that is appealing. Harbeths seem to build for a given room size rather than creating models in different price ranges to suit one's wallet. In this way, if sonically similar, the larger models would have more bass, but that can be added with a good fast sub. The smaller models can be placed closer to walls, are more nimble and again, if tonally similar, won't give up much to the bigger brothers. This is appealing for many who are fans of the BBC lineage. Not merely from Harbeth but from Spendor and Audionote too.

I find Grado headphones are not much different here. Back in 1997, Good Cans and Headroom were corrent in identifying the SR60s as the best bargain in all of high-end at the time. In fact, they may well still be able to make such a claim, at least with headphones. They were also correct in acknowledging that the SR60s get 80% of the way to the RS-1s. I'd extend that to the PS-1s, PS500s, PS-1000s, GS-1000s and the Alessandros too. In fact, this isn't unique with Grado.

As one races up the models towards the priciest offerings, unless the technology is entirely different, sonically, there will be many similarities and ideally, the pricier models begin to show their strengths not in what they do MORE of (though that can be true) but what they do distinctly from the lower models. Subtelties in music begin to play a serious role here. Trained ears are able to pick this stuff out with greater facility than those with untrained ears if only because there is an active listening FOR something rather than listening for something that is missing (which, conversly can happen when coming from a better model).

The GS-1000s and PS-1000s are predominantly the same as the other Grados, even those of old Joe from the early 90s. The main shift was the driver distance from the ear because of the cushion design change. Tweaks to the driver and later to the cables play a role too of course, and a not so subtle role for many, but at the end of the day there is a house sound that one is cool with or not. Throwing down close to $2k on a pair of headphones, prumably by someone already admiring what Grados have to offer, is usually preceded by a desire to augment the good stuff, diminish or eradicate the not so good stuff and to bring in new goodies that will titilate the soul.

What is expected, in the realm of the minutia in some cases, to achieve that last bit of edging out the last 5-10% depends not just on improvements with the flagship product but also with the associated gear. However, if one has a tricked out system and one that was carefully matched for previous Grados in this case, it is completely fair to declare after much effort: I'm moving on, these are not for me.

This is not unique to Grado, it has happened with HD650s in reference to the 600s, and even the 600s relating to the 580s. So true too then from comments in the past going from Omega I to the IIs and even the IIIs. Many still love the Is over the others.

The PS-1000s still offer me more than any other headphone I own or have owned or could own. They are still my go-to headphone when I am able to listen to my main system. There are some albums that perform better with the PS-1s, or the RS-1s and I have the luxury of swapping them in and out. Headphones used to be a really awesome low cost entry into this hobby. A given headphone, dollar for dollar, could trounce speakers in many many ways, offering people an alternative to forced communal listening. The lower price points also enabled plenty of people a customizing of systems for specific genres or albums as the case may be. Speakers are too large, cumbersome and often expensive to enable the same flexibility. However, as Uncle Erik has been proclaiming for years and I certainly agree, speakers in most ways will offer MORE for the dollar than most if not all of the costly headphones, no matter the company. In fact, I'm taken aback at the recent price hike in each subsequent flagship AND in the amps. Headphones, save for electrostats, are relatively easy to drive when compared to speakers. Yet, we are seeing amps that are $10k, 20k! and more!!!! for headphones. When one can put together a Quad ESL setup from 40 years ago with a decently low powered and cheap amp and get a sense of space, imaging, soundstage and realism that no headphone can provide, all for under a grand... if one has the space, get off the heapdhone merry-go-round! Just be sure to keep in mind the reason for going iwth the speakers and ditching the buying and selling insanity. Doing so with speakers is FAR more dangerous to the pocketbook (and the WAF is much more dire in these circumstances).

My system is in my profile. I try to listen to vinyl mostly, as I prefer the sound. That is parsed through an EAR phono and into the EAR HP4 to my PS-1000s. It is rare that I am drawn to any faults. The reason is primarily because I am experiencing music in a way that touches me. If I felt that every time I put them on I was drawn to imperfections, I'd move on too. The EAR is simply a super solid design, sonically wonderful and never surpassed (perhaps equalled but I haven't heard one that does so) with Grados. Blackmore has historically been a great fan of Grados. He admits it and he has worked towards constructing a system that would create an ideal synergy. The EAR HP4!!!! So awesome.

Anyhow, Blackmore, I think what you have written is important and the detractors are caught in the confirmation bias/deflated ego downward spiral that plenty are prone to. I hope you find your perfect headphones soon.
Edited by Zanth - 8/31/12 at 11:38am
post #153 of 193

Hi Zanth,

 

There is so much wisdom in your post, not least your thoughts on speakers and headphones. I am primarily a "speaker person" and often judge headphones' performance based on how well they stack up against my speakers. What gets me hooked on some of the Grados is their ability to produce vocals and mids that rival speakers like the old Quads and say Proac Response2.5 etc.. It gets me involved with the music I listen to. That is always my goal and if I achieve that, I can easily forget about any short comings that a pair of headphones might have.

As for the PS1000-I get confused because I have heard some different sounding pairs. It could have been down to partnering gears, I don't know. I don't hear what Blackmore heard in my pair although they do have slightly soft bass. 

 

-Paul

post #154 of 193
Hi pcf,

Wherein once I was a headphone-centric listener, I must say that these days I am clearly in the speaker camp. This shift has helped me put many aspects of audio in perpsective. I can understand similar epiphanies going from speakers to headphones. I have yet to approximate the intimacy headphones provide.

I don't have soft bass with the PS-1000s. The bass is not as snappy solid with the EAR as it is with the Melos, but so many dimensions are degraded for my tastes that the lessened impact is well worth augmentations elsewhere. My PS-1000s are nearly as liquid as the PS-1s, nearly as tonally perfect as the RS-1s, have bass nearly as solid as HP-1000s. These nearlies are reinforced by so many "betters" that I can live with th knowledge they are not the "best at everything" headphone. But then, no headphone is. R10s and Omegas have more air; HD800s have a larger headstage; Ety 4s are faster. So what? None of the others sound like the real thing, nor does any Grado including the PS1000s. I place the utmost importance on timbre, tone and PRaT (despite the latter bring ambiguous and nebulous).

For me, Grados above all others almost all of the time, with PS1000s the champ among those that I own.
Edited by Zanth - 8/31/12 at 11:41am
post #155 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanth View Post

Hi pcf,
Wherein once I was a headphone-centric listener, I must say that these days I am clearly in the speaker camp. This shift has helped me put many aspects of audio in perpsective. I can understand similar epiphanies going from speakers to headphones. I have yet to approximate the intimacy headphones provide.
I don't have soft bass with the PS-1000s. The bass is not as snappy solid with the EAR as it is with the Melos, but so many dimensions are degraded for my tastes that the lessened impact is well worth augmentations elsewhere.
My PS-1000s are nearly as liquid as the PS-1s, nearly as tonally perfect as the RS-1s, have bass nearly as solid as HP-1000s. These nearlies are reinforced by so many "betters" that I can live with th knowledge they are not the best at everything headphone. But then, no headphone is. R10s and Omegas have more air; HD800s have a larger headstage; Ety 4s are faster. So what? None of the others, for, sound like the real thing, as well as any Grado, let alone the PS1000s. I place the utmost importance on timbre, tone and PRaT (despite the latter bring ambiguous and nebulous).
For me, Grados above all others almost all of the time, with PS1000s the champ among those that I own.

 

And there you have it... "nuff said" - "none of the others... sound like the real thing, as well as any Grado, let alone the PS1000's!"  That pretty well says it all!

post #156 of 193

Bugger the graphs. I just slapped a Transparent High Performance Powerlink power cable (loaner) on my Ayre DAC and wouldn't ya know the Grado said thank you very much. A lot of that "strident" treble sounds more like resolution than a flaw now.  This is not my imagination the dial on my amp is now cranked. Last night it would have absolutely killed my ears. Killed them. This is not like I'm squinting to hear the difference and it is not an opinion. It is a fact, just like if I said yesterday I had a headache and today it is gone. Yesterday my ears were hurtin a bit and tonight they are not. Even on the rough recordings. This is a mercilessly revealing headphone. If there are problems upstream you will hear it. I'm sure this phone has plenty of its own problems but you have to solve the front end issues first or these will kill your ears. The Sennheiser's are more forgiving but I don't think that well goes nearly as deep.

post #157 of 193

enjoyed reading your posts zanth. every grado fan would relate to your sentiments, whether they own the best bang for your buck sr60i or the majestic ps1000. smile_phones.gif


Edited by shimmer n roar - 8/31/12 at 5:01am
post #158 of 193
Thread Starter 

Hi Zanth,

 

Glad to see you around and thanks for taking the time to replay to this thread.

 

Indeed, like you wrote, my passion for Grado sound was and still is the biggest one, but been always parallel with my AKG K1000 affaire, the most speaker like and realistic sounding ear speakers to date, at least for me, and that was the reason why I sold the GS1000 and EAR system, because my experimentations with K1000 were much limited than with Grado's at the time and the funds, as always, very limited and very hard to save when you have kinds and the family to support.

 

After the Grado system was gone, there were several candidates to chose from and the first was Red Wine 30.2 sig., which is an good partner for K1000, but unfortunately, not for me, so, after 5-6 month it was sold and another one, this time tube based, were in, PrimaLuna Prologue Two. Dutch design that they are manufacturing in China. This is KT88 based amp, which I upgraded with best possible NOS tubes very shortly after fully burn in and by many who tried this combo, it was found as an fantastic one, me included, but…After 9 month I was done with to, because the amp is to powerful and not declicate enough to drive K1000 and his volume pot never could go further than say 10 o'clock, which was very limited option for me, but also, if you did so, distortion was right there.

After a little search I decided, just as with GS1000 back then, to go SET route and Cary CAD 300sei classic model replaced PrimaLuna and what can I say? It's still with me and after several years already been upgraded a little, but also got the beautiful partners to play with, fantastic Tannoy D700 speakers and K1000 were still around at the time I got them.

As the time pass, I was realizing that when I have the time, I always choose my speaker system and K1000 were not used for a little while, but that’s not the only reason. In fact, each time I was listening to my speaker system , man, it's like I was listen to my K1000, but bigger, so, one more time I started to think if there is a way to compliment my speaker system instead of just listen to it all the time.

At that point and because I owned Cary already, my thoughts about to get Grado PS1000 were getting stronger, so, I asked my good friend Henk if he can loan me his BlackDragon recabled GS1000 for a while and thankfully he did. Well, the rest is not difficult to guess, I managed to trade+cash my K1000 for brand new PS1000 and my excitement was pretty big, I must say huge.

 

When the day came and PS1000 were in, I just open the box and the very well known smell of them brought many good memories again, but after first seconds of use I was shocked, shocked how bad their balance was, talking about the lower end / midbass here. I couldn’t believe I was hearing this with the well known tracks of my, however I kept my mouth and started to burn in. During the burn in period they started to settle, around 100 hours I was getting the results and after 200 I felt that they were just fine, however still burning them. After they riched 300 hours I started the listening sessions.

 

Dont get me wrong, but still surprised that acoustic bass and complex classical music were such bad through them. The heavy resonance, not enough extension/air in their sig and literally messy sound with classical orchestral music were the reasons for me to sell them. On the other hand, I got the goose bumps with Stevie Ray Vaughan,  Marcus Miller and Eva Cassidy music, also with less complex piano and cello combination they were/are fantastic.

As I was in the beginning, I still now, very unsure why such differences with differ music appears, so, my impulsive nature just hit my brains and even before I sold PS1000 I purchased the K1000 again, however that’s not all:-)

K1000 were not even in yet and I was asking myself what the hell I am doing? So, I sold them by now and another toy is in, but I will hold my horses until I am more confident to write some.

 

Same as you Zanth, I to think that EAR, probably, is the best Grado GS1000 and PS1000 solution, even I never tried PS1k through it, however the low end will never be as tight as you can get it from ZanaDeux for example, this is the nature of its design, which is same or close to SET, but the delicacy is unbeatable, as I have owned them at the same time and choose HP4 above, specifically for this and the fantastic mids. Technically speaking, EAT produces more current than my Cary does, so, thats, possible, the reason of less good performance, however I dont give up that fast by technical stuff only, because the synergy was there as with no other I could compare with.

 

I wish I could say it differently, but through my system I was not fully satisfying and having the nature of owning the one headphones only, decision been made and that’s all about it.

 

THX

 

p.s. Funny enough, I am thinking to get Grado one day again, but it will be one of their midclass or, just maybe, PS500 or RS1 as the top, just to keep me happy when I want some hard rock, however my Koss KSC75 does a great job when driven by Caryksc75smile.gif

post #159 of 193

When I read impressions from different people on PS1000, it doesn't even sound like they are describing the same headphone. 

The fans would insist that the haters are reading charts rather than listening.

The haters would say that the fans like the colouration and misinterpret that as lifelike.

post #160 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcf View Post

When I read impressions from different people on PS1000, it doesn't even sound like they are describing the same headphone. 

The fans would insist that the haters are reading charts rather than listening.

The haters would say that the fans like the colouration and misinterpret that as lifelike.

Very true.  The GS-1000 also fell victim to the same type of critics.  People who had yet to even hear it were spewing there opinions claiming that it was this, that and the other.  The same probably applies here with the PS-1000.

 

I myself being a long time GS-1K owner wondered the same thing , could they be listening to the same hp I was listening to?  Most likely not and as mentioned probably never even heard it. Much of these opinions were and are based on short term auditions....if auditioned at all.  You need to live with a hp to formulate a proper opinion of it.

 

So the next time someone blatantly trashes your PS-1000 take it with a huge grain of salt gs1000.gif.

 

PS : Welcome back Zanth good to see you posting !


Edited by Mortalcoil - 8/31/12 at 12:05pm
post #161 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

And there you have it... "nuff said" - "none of the others... sound like the real thing, as well as any Grado, let alone the PS1000's!"  That pretty well says it all!

 

I was posting with little sleep.  My spelling and grammar were atrocious.  I've cleaned up the format of my posts and corrected the spelling and comma splices after a first pass.  What I meant by the quoted text above was not that the PS-1000s are not capable, or other Grados suffer from the same artificiality but so do all headphones and speakers predominantly too.  I think you were quoting me with that understanding in mind,  I wanted to clarify for anyone else, lest they come to the conclusion that I was insinuating the PS-1000s are the worst of the Grados in this regard.  There are plenty of transducers that sound close to the real thing, be it speaker drivers or headphone drivers.  Yet, if one is building a playback system with the goal of sounding Live, I'd recommend never starting to begin with as nothing will completely satisfy without having performers in one's listening room :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackstoneJD View Post

Bugger the graphs. I just slapped a Transparent High Performance Powerlink power cable (loaner) on my Ayre DAC and wouldn't ya know the Grado said thank you very much. A lot of that "strident" treble sounds more like resolution than a flaw now.  This is not my imagination the dial on my amp is now cranked. Last night it would have absolutely killed my ears. Killed them. This is not like I'm squinting to hear the difference and it is not an opinion. It is a fact, just like if I said yesterday I had a headache and today it is gone. Yesterday my ears were hurtin a bit and tonight they are not. Even on the rough recordings. This is a mercilessly revealing headphone. If there are problems upstream you will hear it. I'm sure this phone has plenty of its own problems but you have to solve the front end issues first or these will kill your ears. The Sennheiser's are more forgiving but I don't think that well goes nearly as deep.

 

I have not compared using different cables on the headphones themselves but I have swapped ICs and other cables, primarily experimenting with different metals and configurations rather than copper against copper for instance.  In some cases the sound was changed enough that it was easy to pick out.  Other times it was subtle and still other times I couldn't tell the difference. Perhaps I will try some Transparent cables in the future as a fun trial.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

enjoyed reading your posts zanth. every grado fan would relate to your sentiments, whether they own the best bang for your buck sr60i or the majestic ps1000. smile_phones.gif

 

Thanks you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Hi Zanth,

 

Glad to see you around and thanks for taking the time to replay to this thread.

 

Indeed, like you wrote, my passion for Grado sound was and still is the biggest one, but been always parallel with my AKG K1000 affaire, the most speaker like and realistic sounding ear speakers to date, at least for me, and that was the reason why I sold the GS1000 and EAR system, because my experimentations with K1000 were much limited than with Grado's at the time and the funds, as always, very limited and very hard to save when you have kinds and the family to support.

 

After the Grado system was gone, there were several candidates to chose from and the first was Red Wine 30.2 sig., which is an good partner for K1000, but unfortunately, not for me, so, after 5-6 month it was sold and another one, this time tube based, were in, PrimaLuna Prologue Two. Dutch design that they are manufacturing in China. This is KT88 based amp, which I upgraded with best possible NOS tubes very shortly after fully burn in and by many who tried this combo, it was found as an fantastic one, me included, but…After 9 month I was done with to, because the amp is to powerful and not declicate enough to drive K1000 and his volume pot never could go further than say 10 o'clock, which was very limited option for me, but also, if you did so, distortion was right there.

After a little search I decided, just as with GS1000 back then, to go SET route and Cary CAD 300sei classic model replaced PrimaLuna and what can I say? It's still with me and after several years already been upgraded a little, but also got the beautiful partners to play with, fantastic Tannoy D700 speakers and K1000 were still around at the time I got them.

As the time pass, I was realizing that when I have the time, I always choose my speaker system and K1000 were not used for a little while, but that’s not the only reason. In fact, each time I was listening to my speaker system , man, it's like I was listen to my K1000, but bigger, so, one more time I started to think if there is a way to compliment my speaker system instead of just listen to it all the time.

At that point and because I owned Cary already, my thoughts about to get Grado PS1000 were getting stronger, so, I asked my good friend Henk if he can loan me his BlackDragon recabled GS1000 for a while and thankfully he did. Well, the rest is not difficult to guess, I managed to trade+cash my K1000 for brand new PS1000 and my excitement was pretty big, I must say huge.

 

When the day came and PS1000 were in, I just open the box and the very well known smell of them brought many good memories again, but after first seconds of use I was shocked, shocked how bad their balance was, talking about the lower end / midbass here. I couldn’t believe I was hearing this with the well known tracks of my, however I kept my mouth and started to burn in. During the burn in period they started to settle, around 100 hours I was getting the results and after 200 I felt that they were just fine, however still burning them. After they riched 300 hours I started the listening sessions.

 

Dont get me wrong, but still surprised that acoustic bass and complex classical music were such bad through them. The heavy resonance, not enough extension/air in their sig and literally messy sound with classical orchestral music were the reasons for me to sell them. On the other hand, I got the goose bumps with Stevie Ray Vaughan,  Marcus Miller and Eva Cassidy music, also with less complex piano and cello combination they were/are fantastic.

As I was in the beginning, I still now, very unsure why such differences with differ music appears, so, my impulsive nature just hit my brains and even before I sold PS1000 I purchased the K1000 again, however that’s not all:-)

K1000 were not even in yet and I was asking myself what the hell I am doing? So, I sold them by now and another toy is in, but I will hold my horses until I am more confident to write some.

 

Same as you Zanth, I to think that EAR, probably, is the best Grado GS1000 and PS1000 solution, even I never tried PS1k through it, however the low end will never be as tight as you can get it from ZanaDeux for example, this is the nature of its design, which is same or close to SET, but the delicacy is unbeatable, as I have owned them at the same time and choose HP4 above, specifically for this and the fantastic mids. Technically speaking, EAT produces more current than my Cary does, so, thats, possible, the reason of less good performance, however I dont give up that fast by technical stuff only, because the synergy was there as with no other I could compare with.

 

I wish I could say it differently, but through my system I was not fully satisfying and having the nature of owning the one headphones only, decision been made and that’s all about it.

 

THX

 

p.s. Funny enough, I am thinking to get Grado one day again, but it will be one of their midclass or, just maybe, PS500 or RS1 as the top, just to keep me happy when I want some hard rock, however my Koss KSC75 does a great job when driven by Caryksc75smile.gif

 

Those Koss phones sound good!  I still have a few pairs.  I think you have given your systems time to break in and work their magic on your brain.  One's ear needs to adjust, the brain fills in gaps and eventually one can settle in and just listen.  That's the goal.  If it can't, then something is off and deciding to swap gear in order to negate any prolific scrutinizing is a good idea in my my mind.  The K1000s would be a headphone I would love to try with a great variety of amps.  I'd also love to try out some Moths or Eddie Currents. His designs are gorgeous (or at least the chassis work is) and so many claim wonderful sonics flowing through the circuits.  When one gets up into this tier, almost any amp is going to sound wonderful with some headphone.  Finding that combo to achieve a synergy can be time consuming but well worth it in the end.  I often read posts on Audiogon about these audiophiles with decades of experience, swapping, buying and selling.  Almost all of them are able to point to a time when the music gelled.  Magic happened and had they left well enough alone, they would not have lost money by buying and selling yet again.  Time lost too. Plenty remark how they revisit old combos and settle back in as if they are reuniting with an old friend.  Perhaps you too will be able to sit with an old friend and enjoy the company.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcf View Post

When I read impressions from different people on PS1000, it doesn't even sound like they are describing the same headphone. 

The fans would insist that the haters are reading charts rather than listening.

The haters would say that the fans like the colouration and misinterpret that as lifelike.

 

There are variations in ears such that the outter ear may be able to catch more of some frequency than those of another person.  The inner ear, the temporal lobe, the hormone levels in the circulatory system, fatigue, caffeine, alcohol, dopamine - there are so many factors when one listens that a single person could write a glowing post one day, and 5 months later contradict what they once wrote.  This is a reason that short DBTs are useless for me in the long run.  There are certainly striking features of the sound that won't go away depending on biology but others are a byproduct of our perception AND the flow of the music.  For this reason, I have been truly fortunate to have had the opportunities that I have written about, owning or boring headphones, amps, speakers for many months at a time, sometimes over a year.  If I let something leave never to be heard again, I'm usually pretty comfortable seeing them go.  If I had a larger budget for audio, I might want to add a K1000, an R10 and an Omega I but mainly for certain aspects likely untouchable by other phones because of the differences in tech.  Otherwise, I am pleased as punch with my Grados and as mentioned before, with the ones I have on hand, I reach for the PS-1000s the most.

post #162 of 193
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortalcoil View Post

 

Most likely not and as mentioned probably never even heard it. Much of these opinions were and are based on short term auditions....if auditioned at all.  You need to live with a hp to formulate a proper opinion of it.

So the next time someone blatantly trashes your PS-1000 take it with a huge grain of salt gs1000.gif.

 

PS : Welcome back Zanth good to see you posting !

 

Great minds think alike :)  Indeed, if one has not had the opportunity to live with something long term, I find it difficult to take the opinions seriously.  Again, there will be certain aspects that won't go away or won't magically appear during long listening sessions over a long time.  Yet, there is no denying that in my experience, one really comes to know a product when using it more than a few short sessions at a meet. 

 

My comments regarding speakers and a trade show still apply but of course so does not knowing any of these product fully.  What I can continue to declare is that despite well set up rooms and electrically compatible pairs, plenty of systems sound dead to me.  Maybe that can be remedied but with the incredible number of speaker and amplifier manufacturers, sometimes being able to drop 100s from one's list is a good thing.  Headphones are niggly because they are easy to bring into the home, not large, usually not overly pricey, resell well and the ability to swap between a dozen in an evening is possible.  Speakers?  Not so much.

post #163 of 193

i've found in-store headphone auditions invaluable for evaluating and comparing headphones that i'm considering buying. obviously it's not the same as ownership that allows you to become closely acquainted with a headphone's characteristics for better or for worse over time. however, my initial impressions of the headphones that i have auditioned have been confirmed with subsequent listening sessions, and i don't expect that to change with long term listening at home based on my own experience. the headphones that i own don't sound noticeably different to me now than when i first heard them, but my response to them can vary. that's why i find first impressions telling and value them. i might not have gained the familiarity and insight that ownership brings, but my assessment isn't influenced by financial and emotional investment either. auditioning a headphone that i am yet to own allows me to judge it impartially. smile.gif

post #164 of 193

Same old, round and round goes the merry go-round smile.gif

 

Many headphones deserve a sense of reservation unless owned for many months, the PS1000 remains a perfect

 example of such a case.

 

 I'd go further ~ unless you've mix and matched various DAC's and amps (very, very important) across a wide range of diverse

 material then you will never really know what they are capable of.

 

 One thing will always remain true - regardless of the depth of your pockets - the material itself remains the most crucial

 element - they're a 'feast or famine' headphone. Disappointment, indifference and elation all go hand in hand with this

 headphone in relation to your album collection.

 

 I could be rather presumptuous here by suggesting this ~ many negative comments concerning these cans merely stem

 from the fact that they will never gel with certain recordings. In my experience, this flies directly into the face of experienced

 Head-Fiers who apply a strict limited selection of recordings when auditioning. This will not bring about PS1000 ownership

 bliss.

 

 The solution is all too unpopular I'm afraid ~ there is so much well recorded music out there in this digital world.

 

 Instead - cut loose - if your new recording does not work - save it for your back-up headphone and move on

 until every now and then you hit a track that makes this hobby worth every cent you have spent.

 

 That is what I call - PS1000 ownership.

post #165 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

i've found in-store headphone auditions invaluable for evaluating and comparing headphones that i'm considering buying. obviously it's not the same as ownership that allows you to become closely acquainted with a headphone's characteristics for better or for worse over time. however, my initial impressions of the headphones that i have auditioned have been confirmed with subsequent listening sessions, and i don't expect that to change with long term listening at home based on my own experience. the headphones that i own don't sound noticeably different to me now than when i first heard them, but my response to them can vary. that's why i find first impressions telling and value them. i might not have gained the familiarity and insight that ownership brings, but my assessment isn't influenced by financial and emotional investment either. auditioning a headphone that i am yet to own allows me to judge it impartially. smile.gif

You have some good points there but they don't necesscarily apply to every case. People who own the headphones have the chance to try different kind of music and partnring gears with them. That is something that you won't get from listening in the shop or even in a meet. It is true that people get too attached to their own headphones but I have read many, many impressions from headphones owners that are honest and unforgiven. First impressions might not be the most accurate ones. Some phones tend to impress less in the beginning and grow on you after a while (think Senn 650; LCD2....).

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions.