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Grado PS1000, very mixed and not review like impressions. - Page 8

post #106 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

 If I want a good amp around that range I'll get a V90, and it would sound far better than the RA-1.

 

 

I don't know, I really doubt there would be that much of an audible difference. I have no doubt that the V90 is a much more sophisticated amp, but I've just never heard variation in solid state amps that could be described as "far better". 

post #107 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

I don't know, I really doubt there would be that much of an audible difference. I have no doubt that the V90 is a much more sophisticated amp, but I've just never heard variation in solid state amps that could be described as "far better". 


 He's reflecting his personal preferences and inexperience.  Amps must match the electrical requirements of the particular phones (e.g. impedance, current requirements, voltage requirements, etc.).  It has nothing to do with whether any particular amp is "far better" than another - it's all about matching the specific electrical characteristics.  I've learned this as the result of much experience in matching specific amps with specific phones (i.e.  low impedance and high impedance phones, with high current or high voltage amps, etc.). 

 

The most dramatic changes I've experienced in matching phones with amps, have been with various Musical Fidelity amps with high impedance phones, and low impedance phones, and similarly with Graham Slee Solo amps, and various OTL tube amps versus TC tube amps.  For example, the Musical Fidelity X-CAN v3 excels with Senns, but not so much with Grados, or Denons, yet the X-CAN v8 excels with Grados and Denons, but not with Senns.  Similarly, GS Solo amps excel with Senns, but not with Grados - with the possible exception of the SRG.  OTL tube amps excel with Senns, but not Grados and Denons, and TC tube amps excel with Grados and also drive Senns pretty well. 

 

It's almost totally irrelevant what brand an amp is, or whether its a CMoy of one type, or another. 

 

Grados sound nothing like their common reputation for "small soundstage and strident highs" when they're properly matched with an amp which matches their electrical requirements.


Edited by Gradofan2 - 8/15/12 at 10:12pm
post #108 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

Actually! a change happened in the recipe somewhere between the #184

400

 

and the #217

400

 

#184 on the left, #217 right

700

 

 

The chrome finish on the SR325is was removed for similar reasons (but the opposite of what you said) because it was too difficult to achieve with consistent quality

700

 

Blackmore it's got to be this picture you're talking about:

1000

 

I personally don't think it was caused by the owner, I can't imagine polished metal loose it's shine just like that (I would blame Grado quality control department), but I'd agree in that this spot is where the thumb go when you put on or remove your headphones (so if erosion is to occur it would be here).

 

 

The couple first PS 500s (/prototype) were also chromed but they introduced their newest "powder finish" and they've been sticking to it for their SR325is and PS500 ever since.

 

 

 

Could you elaborate please?


i wouldn't go leaping to any conclusions about the composition of the metal cups just because the finish of one pair looks matte and the other satin. it could well be an example of the kind of inconsistencies that grado referred to, which led them to switch to the chrome finish. as far as the differences in weight goes, well i can't explain those. however, it could be due to differences in the weight of the mahogany inner chambers, metal cups and the foam pads combined.

 

ps. oblique - not explicit. wink.gif


Edited by shimmer n roar - 8/16/12 at 1:47am
post #109 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post


 He's reflecting his personal preferences and inexperience.  Amps must match the electrical requirements of the particular phones (e.g. impedance, current requirements, voltage requirements, etc.).  It has nothing to do with whether any particular amp is "far better" than another - it's all about matching the specific electrical characteristics.  I've learned this as the result of much experience in matching specific amps with specific phones (i.e.  low impedance and high impedance phones, with high current or high voltage amps, etc.). 

 

The most dramatic changes I've experienced in matching phones with amps, have been with various Musical Fidelity amps with high impedance phones, and low impedance phones, and similarly with Graham Slee Solo amps, and various OTL tube amps versus TC tube amps.  For example, the Musical Fidelity X-CAN v3 excels with Senns, but not so much with Grados, or Denons, yet the X-CAN v8 excels with Grados and Denons, but not with Senns.  Similarly, GS Solo amps excel with Senns, but not with Grados - with the possible exception of the SRG.  OTL tube amps excel with Senns, but not Grados and Denons, and TC tube amps excel with Grados and also drive Senns pretty well. 

 

It's almost totally irrelevant what brand an amp is, or whether its a CMoy of one type, or another. 

 

Grados sound nothing like their common reputation for "small soundstage and strident highs" when they're properly matched with an amp which matches their electrical requirements.


repeating yourself ad nauseam doesn't make it so, and being condescending towards others who don't share your point of view doesn't make it any more convincing.


Edited by shimmer n roar - 8/16/12 at 12:02am
post #110 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post


 He's reflecting his personal preferences and inexperience.  Amps must match the electrical requirements of the particular phones (e.g. impedance, current requirements, voltage requirements, etc.).  It has nothing to do with whether any particular amp is "far better" than another - it's all about matching the specific electrical characteristics.  I've learned this as the result of much experience in matching specific amps with specific phones (i.e.  low impedance and high impedance phones, with high current or high voltage amps, etc.). 

 

The most dramatic changes I've experienced in matching phones with amps, have been with various Musical Fidelity amps with high impedance phones, and low impedance phones, and similarly with Graham Slee Solo amps, and various OTL tube amps versus TC tube amps.  For example, the Musical Fidelity X-CAN v3 excels with Senns, but not so much with Grados, or Denons, yet the X-CAN v8 excels with Grados and Denons, but not with Senns.  Similarly, GS Solo amps excel with Senns, but not with Grados - with the possible exception of the SRG.  OTL tube amps excel with Senns, but not Grados and Denons, and TC tube amps excel with Grados and also drive Senns pretty well. 

 

It's almost totally irrelevant what brand an amp is, or whether its a CMoy of one type, or another. 

 

Grados sound nothing like their common reputation for "small soundstage and strident highs" when they're properly matched with an amp which matches their electrical requirements.

 

 

The last sentence there is what I've been focusing on since the idea was first presented to me. When you have two amps that are properly matched to a particular speaker/headphone, it's pretty tough to distinguish one from the other. I rarely take a hard line stance on anything, cause this is a hobby and I don't want it to ever be anything but fun, but when I read people say that one amp is so far superior to another, it just causes me to really question if that's true or if there are other factors that can account for that opinion. I hate even having this discussion, cause I have no interest in the objectivist vs subjectivist debates and getting people all riled up...it's just an aspect of the hobby that I find interesting to think about. 

 

I remember back when I first went from a 65 wpc Outlaw receiver to 200wpc monoblocks with my former Paradigm Studio 100s, the difference seemed to be apparent. But then I found out that the Paradigms were actually more current hungry than I was led to believe, and the receiver just wasn't quite driving them to their full potential. When I had some DeVore Fidelity Super 8 2-way floorstanders, which are very transparent and detailed, I heard them driven with both my $2k Butler amp and some Oasis monoblocks that were in the tens of thousands of dollars. I was truly stoked to have the opportunity to do the comparison, but honestly I can't say that there was a significant difference between the two amps. Both were able to drive the DeVores to their potential, and beyond that I just didn't really experience anything sonically that stood out. 

 

I dunno...like I said, I don't take a hard line stance on anything when it comes to my hobbies, I just have yet to hear some of the differences that others seem so certain of. 

post #111 of 193

grado ps-1000 needs a comfortable headband :)

post #112 of 193
Thread Starter 

Completely agree about X CANV3, simply terrible with GS1000, was my first time I tried them with, cos my dealer didn't have anything else in stock, bla...

 

Would you be so kind to post those please, electrical requirements I mean.

 

THX

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post


 He's reflecting his personal preferences and inexperience.  Amps must match the electrical requirements of the particular phones (e.g. impedance, current requirements, voltage requirements, etc.).  It has nothing to do with whether any particular amp is "far better" than another - it's all about matching the specific electrical characteristics.  I've learned this as the result of much experience in matching specific amps with specific phones (i.e.  low impedance and high impedance phones, with high current or high voltage amps, etc.). 

 

The most dramatic changes I've experienced in matching phones with amps, have been with various Musical Fidelity amps with high impedance phones, and low impedance phones, and similarly with Graham Slee Solo amps, and various OTL tube amps versus TC tube amps.  For example, the Musical Fidelity X-CAN v3 excels with Senns, but not so much with Grados, or Denons, yet the X-CAN v8 excels with Grados and Denons, but not with Senns.  Similarly, GS Solo amps excel with Senns, but not with Grados - with the possible exception of the SRG.  OTL tube amps excel with Senns, but not Grados and Denons, and TC tube amps excel with Grados and also drive Senns pretty well. 

 

It's almost totally irrelevant what brand an amp is, or whether its a CMoy of one type, or another. 

 

Grados sound nothing like their common reputation for "small soundstage and strident highs" when they're properly matched with an amp which matches their electrical requirements.

post #113 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

 

 

The chrome finish on the SR325is was removed for similar reasons (but the opposite of what you said) because it was too difficult to achieve with consistent quality

700

 

Blackmore it's got to be this picture you're talking about:

1000

 

I personally don't think it was caused by the owner, I can't imagine polished metal loose it's shine just like that (I would blame Grado quality control department), but I'd agree in that this spot is where the thumb go when you put on or remove your headphones (so if erosion is to occur it would be here).

 

 

The couple first PS 500s (/prototype) were also chromed but they introduced their newest "powder finish" and they've been sticking to it for their SR325is and PS500 ever since.

 

 

There is a layer of  lacquer finished on top that can be scrubbed off. It is common with chrome and brass furniture. Sometimes you can strip the metal with just rubbing with Brasso. 

It SHOULD NOT come off so easily though.

post #114 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer n roar View Post

i wouldn't go leaping to any conclusions about the composition of the metal cups just because the finish of one pair looks matte and the other satin. it could well be an example of the kind of inconsistencies that grado referred to, which led them to switch to the chrome finish. as far as the differences in weight goes, well i can't explain those. however, it could be due to differences in the weight of the mahogany inner chambers, metal cups and the foam pads combined.

 

ps. oblique - not explicit. wink.gif

 

Those wooden parts are quite small and lightweight I don't think they would account for much of the difference.

 

I'd guess the cable was weighted too (though I couldn't translate the threads where I found the images/posts and find the answer), because of the way it's going up the headphones and not down.

 

Difference in foam pads? There's none, of course; for similar reasons than the wood, it's made by machines that produce little variation, but that foam is even lighter than wood.

 

Actually this has to be read as "a complete change of finish between the pair 187 and 214", the first is coated by some oil and the letters are printed "on" it, the second is sandblaster and the letters are laser engraved "in" it. All the pre-200 pairs are like this:

  versus 

 

I like all three finishes, I don't know which one I'd pick if I'd want a used PS-1000.

-- Chrome (first)

-- Satin

-- Matte (last)

 

Maybe that, I do like the reflection of the light, but the sandblasted one (#200 to #1000 approx.) looks the most masculine, durable and less prone to micro-scratching


Edited by devouringone3 - 8/16/12 at 11:47am
post #115 of 193

Hi,

 

Were you directing the comment at me? I am not inexperienced with amps at all. I've heard maybe 30 or more different amps so I have a good idea on what I am talking about.

 

Grado's never "transform" when the proper power is applied as they do not scale that well nor are they hard to power. I have never heard a headphone transform or sound radically different when given the proper power. They do improve but it's not like going from cheap $20 wine to expensive $200 a bottle wine. They will always have a small soundstage, bright highs, and shallow bass. That is their nature and an amp can not change that if they are voiced as so. They may improve but not much.

 

I do disagree with your view on the X-CANV8P as it matches with the HD600 nicely IMO. It does do far better with Grado's, Denon's, Audio-Technica's for sure though. I found that it mellows out Grado's a bit and fill in the mids.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post


 He's reflecting his personal preferences and inexperience.  Amps must match the electrical requirements of the particular phones (e.g. impedance, current requirements, voltage requirements, etc.).  It has nothing to do with whether any particular amp is "far better" than another - it's all about matching the specific electrical characteristics.  I've learned this as the result of much experience in matching specific amps with specific phones (i.e.  low impedance and high impedance phones, with high current or high voltage amps, etc.). 

 

The most dramatic changes I've experienced in matching phones with amps, have been with various Musical Fidelity amps with high impedance phones, and low impedance phones, and similarly with Graham Slee Solo amps, and various OTL tube amps versus TC tube amps.  For example, the Musical Fidelity X-CAN v3 excels with Senns, but not so much with Grados, or Denons, yet the X-CAN v8 excels with Grados and Denons, but not with Senns.  Similarly, GS Solo amps excel with Senns, but not with Grados - with the possible exception of the SRG.  OTL tube amps excel with Senns, but not Grados and Denons, and TC tube amps excel with Grados and also drive Senns pretty well. 

 

It's almost totally irrelevant what brand an amp is, or whether its a CMoy of one type, or another. 

 

Grados sound nothing like their common reputation for "small soundstage and strident highs" when they're properly matched with an amp which matches their electrical requirements.

post #116 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Completely agree about X CANV3, simply terrible with GS1000, was my first time I tried them with, cos my dealer didn't have anything else in stock, bla...

 

Would you be so kind to post those please, electrical requirements I mean.

 

THX

 

Very low output impedance and high current output, in contrast to high voltage output.  It makes all the difference in their sound.  Mine are "as good as it gets" with any phones, when properly matched to the set up. 

post #117 of 193
Thread Starter 

Well, I was more or less talking about numbers:

 

Input impedance:

Frequency response:

Signal to noise ratio:

THD:

Channel separation:

Output power:

Input impedance:

Output impedance:

Power dissipation:

 

 

I just copied this from online, not that I really have full idea about it, but, for me, it is interesting, cos when I found out the same numbers of my Cary, I can get the idea, I guess...

 

THX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

Very low output impedance and high current output, in contrast to high voltage output.  It makes all the difference in their sound.  Mine are "as good as it gets" with any phones, when properly matched to the set up. 

post #118 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

Those wooden parts are quite small and lightweight I don't think they would account for much of the difference.

 

I'd guess the cable was weighted too (though I couldn't translate the threads where I found the images/posts and find the answer), because of the way it's going up the headphones and not down.

 

Difference in foam pads? There's none, of course; for similar reasons than the wood, it's made by machines that produce little variation, but that foam is even lighter than wood.

 

Actually this has to be read as "a complete change of finish between the pair 187 and 214", the first is coated by some oil and the letters are printed "on" it, the second is sandblaster and the letters are laser engraved "in" it. All the pre-200 pairs are like this:

  versus 

 

I like all three finishes, I don't know which one I'd pick if I'd want a used PS-1000.

-- Chrome (first)

-- Satin

-- Matte (last)

 

Maybe that, I do like the reflection of the light, but the sandblasted one (#200 to #1000 approx.) looks the most masculine, durable and less prone to micro-scratching


as i said, i can't account for the differences in weight between the two headphones. maybe it is due to variations in the weight of the constituent components. 30 grams really isn't a lot of weight per se. wood does vary in density and weight regardless of the dimensions. maybe the heavier pair contained denser mahogany wood inner chambers. how do you know that there aren't variations in the density and weight of the foam pads? maybe there was more cable sitting on the scales for one of the measurements than the other. i really don't know and neither do you, but to claim that the differences in the finish of the metal cups and the weight of the two headphones is due to a change in the "recipe" for the alloy is just baseless speculation. why don't you approach grado for an explanation?

post #119 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

Hi,

 

Were you directing the comment at me? I am not inexperienced with amps at all. I've heard maybe 30 or more different amps so I have a good idea on what I am talking about.

 

Grado's never "transform" when the proper power is applied as they do not scale that well nor are they hard to power. I have never heard a headphone transform or sound radically different when given the proper power. They do improve but it's not like going from cheap $20 wine to expensive $200 a bottle wine. They will always have a small soundstage, bright highs, and shallow bass. That is their nature and an amp can not change that if they are voiced as so. They may improve but not much.

 

I do disagree with your view on the X-CANV8P as it matches with the HD600 nicely IMO. It does do far better with Grado's, Denon's, Audio-Technica's for sure though. I found that it mellows out Grado's a bit and fill in the mids.

 

 

that's the general consensus and it's been my experience. grados are efficient cans that don't require dedicated amping but may benefit from it. though the ps1000 does have a more expansive soundstage and bigger bass. smile.gif

post #120 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

Actually! a change happened in the recipe somewhere between the #184

400

 

and the #217

400

 

#184 on the left, #217 right

700

 

 

The chrome finish on the SR325is was removed for similar reasons (but the opposite of what you said) because it was too difficult to achieve with consistent quality

700

 

Blackmore it's got to be this picture you're talking about:

1000

 

I personally don't think it was caused by the owner, I can't imagine polished metal loose it's shine just like that (I would blame Grado quality control department), but I'd agree in that this spot is where the thumb go when you put on or remove your headphones (so if erosion is to occur it would be here).

 

 

The couple first PS 500s (/prototype) were also chromed but they introduced their newest "powder finish" and they've been sticking to it for their SR325is and PS500 ever since.

 

 

 

Could you elaborate please?

 

 

I have a detailed picture..

 

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