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Grado PS1000: The Legendary Flagship (Review) - Page 6

post #76 of 191
Comparing HD800 with PS1000 is like comparing apples to oranges. They're very different, unique and superb in their own ways.
I love them both, just prefer the PS1000s.
But then I prefer the PS1000s to my SR009s, HP1000s, etcetc..
IMO the PS1000s are in a totally different league when amped with the EAR HP-4
post #77 of 191

the only headphone that i have regretted buying

post #78 of 191

A unique, detailed headphone with a few flaws that dissuade some owners from using it on a normal basis.

 

My two pet peeves with this headphone as follows:

 

1. Although velvety and lushes, the bass response becomes overwhelming on extended listenings. 

 

2. Grados lack of ear-cup ergonomics and pad material combined with the substantial weight of the PS1000 is too much to bear after extended listenings. The RS1 shares this ergonomic inconvenience but lacks the weight issue because it's light as a feather.  

 

One hour into a listening session and my earlobes are trashed; akin to waking up and discovering you slept on your arm all night. I can wear my HE-5LE all day and forget they're even dawned. Wearing headphones should be a pleasurable experience, not a test of resilience and fortitude. 

post #79 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAHZADA123 View Post

Comparing HD800 with PS1000 is like comparing apples to oranges. 
just prefer the PS1000s.
 

 

 

You just did a comparisons.  And the winner is - PS1000 IYHO beerchug.gif

post #80 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

You just did a comparisons.  And the winner is - PS1000 IYHO beerchug.gif

 

And... mine... and... many others.

post #81 of 191

This was an interesting review, but I disagree... The ps1000 may be a comprable to the hd800 and lcd2 in terms of enjoyment, but its not on par w/ the lcd2 and hd800 in terms of accuracy.   After reading through this thread I agree w/ Macedonian Hero.  The ps1000s are fun headphones.  They are not true audiophile headphones.  Looking at purrin's, tyll's and inner fidelity's graphs almost across the board, hd800 and lcd2 measure better.

 

I agree graphs aren't everything, but that doesn't mean they are useless.  Fidelity is a scientific/technical variable, it can be measured.  Preferences are subject to bias and are not a reliable measure of fidelity.

 

Also, this treble piercing complaint on the hd800s is incredibly exaggerated on headfi.  The headphones measure nearly flat except for a small peak (approx ~8 db i think) at 7khz (which btw, ps1000 has an much larger, more piercing peak at 7khz).  A lil' eq or anaxilus mod and its nearly gone.

 

PS:  I don't want to start a flame war with this, but I think its worthwhile taking a look again at the data and interpreting it yourself.

 

PSS: Personally I think the ps500 is the best grado, but I have yet to hear RS1 and any of the HP's...


Edited by rrahman - 7/10/12 at 6:49am
post #82 of 191

i agrre with you and i add:

1) too much expensive

2) many specimens with a serious problem of distortion of low frequencies

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrahman View Post

This was an interesting review, but I disagree... The ps1000 may be a comprable to the hd800 and lcd2 in terms of enjoyment, but its not on par w/ the lcd2 and hd800 in terms of accuracy.   After reading through this thread I agree w/ Macedonian Hero.  The ps1000s are fun headphones.  They are not true audiophile headphones.  Looking at purrin's, tyll's and inner fidelity's graphs almost across the board, hd800 and lcd2 measure better.

 

I agree graphs aren't everything, but that doesn't mean they are useless.  Fidelity is a scientific/technical variable, it can be measured.  Preferences are subject to bias and are not a reliable measure of fidelity.

 

Also, this treble piercing complaint on the hd800s is incredibly exaggerated on headfi.  The headphones measure nearly flat except for a small peak (approx ~8 db i think) at 7khz (which btw, ps1000 has an much larger, more piercing peak at 7khz).  A lil' eq or anaxilus mod and its nearly gone.

post #83 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrahman View Post

This was an interesting review, but I disagree... The ps1000 may be a comprable to the hd800 and lcd2 in terms of enjoyment, but its not on par w/ the lcd2 and hd800 in terms of accuracy.   After reading through this thread I agree w/ Macedonian Hero.  The ps1000s are fun headphones.  They are not true audiophile headphones.  Looking at purrin's, tyll's and inner fidelity's graphs almost across the board, hd800 and lcd2 measure better.

 

I agree graphs aren't everything, but that doesn't mean they are useless.  Fidelity is a scientific/technical variable, it can be measured.  Preferences are subject to bias and are not a reliable measure of fidelity.

 

Also, this treble piercing complaint on the hd800s is incredibly exaggerated on headfi.  The headphones measure nearly flat except for a small peak (approx ~8 db i think) at 7khz (which btw, ps1000 has an much larger, more piercing peak at 7khz).  A lil' eq or anaxilus mod and its nearly gone.

 

PS:  I don't want to start a flame war with this, but I think its worthwhile taking a look again at the data and interpreting it yourself.

 

PSS: Personally I think the ps500 is the best grado, but I have yet to hear RS1 and any of the HP's...

 

I don't really see where the OP is making the argument that the PS1ks are more accurate than the Senns or the Audez'e. Grados aren't trying to be Sennheisers...if someone wants a flat, neutral headphone, they have options to choose from. That's not the focus of the review. 

post #84 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

I don't really see where the OP is making the argument that the PS1ks are more accurate than the Senns or the Audez'e. Grados aren't trying to be Sennheisers...if someone wants a flat, neutral headphone, they have options to choose from. That's not the focus of the review. 

He says the lcd2 has much more colored bass and that the hd800 has more piercing treble...

 

Also this was much more of a response to the ensueing posts by people


Edited by rrahman - 7/10/12 at 8:11am
post #85 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrahman View Post

He says the lcd2 has much more colored bass and that the hd800 has more piercing treble...

 

Also this was much more of a response to the ensueing posts by people

 

There are other areas where a headphone can be accurate and inaccurate aside from it's frequency response.  The bass region can measure flat and still sound colored to someone. The FR is a measure of amplitude at a given frequency, not tonal quality or timbre.  I find graphs and objective measurements just as helpful as you probably do, but there are many people, including myself, who allow their ears to be the final judge. 

post #86 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

There are other areas where a headphone can be accurate and inaccurate aside from it's frequency response.  The bass region can measure flat and still sound colored to someone. The FR is a measure of amplitude at a given frequency, not tonal quality or timbre.  I find graphs and objective measurements just as helpful as you probably do, but there are many people, including myself, who allow their ears to be the final judge. 

 

Well theres more than just frequency response to look at, measurement wise.  But I agree some things aren't captured by the measurements and I said that...

 

Now if the measurements were close, I suppose you could make the argument that perhaps these immeasurable aspects of sq (like timbre) tip the balance...  Which is probably why so many people bicker about the T1 vs HD800 vs LCD2 etc, since they measure relatively closer to each other.

 

But given that thd, square waves, decay, FR, waterfall plots etc of the ps1000 all fall behind the lcd2 and hd800.  And moreover, looking at the graphs of many other flagships like the HE series, Stax, etc  they all seem to flank or approach a common "ideal" curve on these graphs, which the ps1000 seems to be straying away from.  This suggests that they are approaching a common goal of fidelity, where the PS1000's measurements seems to be aiming elsewhere.  So then, I have to question what are the odds that the PS1000's individual timbre fidelity could make up for all these other equally important factors.

 

I think everyone should use their ears as the final specific test of fidelity, where the measurements should act as sensitive tests.


Edited by rrahman - 7/10/12 at 9:21am
post #87 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrahman View Post

 

Well theres more than just frequency response to look at, measurement wise.  But I agree some things aren't captured by the measurements and I said that...

 

Now if the measurements were close, I suppose you could make the argument that perhaps these immeasurable aspects of sq (like timbre) tip the balance...  Which is probably why so many people bicker about the T1 vs HD800 vs LCD2 etc, since they measure relatively closer to each other.

 

But given that thd, square waves, decay, FR, waterfall plots etc of the ps1000 all fall behind the lcd2 and hd800.  And moreover, looking at the graphs of many other flagships like the HE series, Stax, etc  they all seem to flank or approach a common "ideal" curve on these graphs, which the ps1000 seems to be straying away from.  This suggests that they are approaching a common goal of fidelity, where the PS1000's measurements seems to be aiming elsewhere.  So then, I have to question what are the odds that the PS1000's individual timbre fidelity could make up for all these other equally important factors.

 

I think everyone should use their ears as the final specific test of fidelity, where the measurements should act as sensitive tests.

 

I'm pretty sure what Grado is aiming at is enjoyable music reproduction. I don't really understand what you mean when you say you're questioning the odds of timbre making up for what you view as its deficits. Clearly there are many people who love and purchase Grado headphones, including the PS1ks, both professional and casual listener alike. 

post #88 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focker View Post

 

I'm pretty sure what Grado is aiming at is enjoyable music reproduction. I don't really understand what you mean when you say you're questioning the odds of timbre making up for what you view as its deficits. Clearly there are many people who love and purchase Grado headphones, including the PS1ks, both professional and casual listener alike. 

 

Right, I also said that.  I was talking about the claims that it was more accurate than the lcd2 and hd800, which has little to do with what people's preferences are.

post #89 of 191

Have any of the Grado PS1000 owners here re-cabled them? Ive heard claims from some manufacturers like Stefan Art, that after market cables can help tame the top ends some, with the right tube/amp choices etc.

 

I had a Moon Audio black dragon put on my set, although as there hard wired, this was sent straight from the dealer so I didn't get a chance to A&B them with stock. At the time it satisfied my head-fi paranoia and upgraditis but I'm still very curious about the SAA Endorphin and more recently the Toxic Venom RC-4, anyone tried these with the Grado?

 

A pity that the PS1000 doesn't have a cable jack like other manufacturers to allow easy swapping and that they are glued together which makes access a pain.

post #90 of 191

It may be better to invest in the better source or upgrade your amp first, before you re-cable any headphones, unless you already have that of course. I do believe cables will make some improvements, but don't believe that's the issue  PS1000 are having, however the stock cable is way to short, imo.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Raal View Post

Have any of the Grado PS1000 owners here re-cabled them? Ive heard claims from some manufacturers like Stefan Art, that after market cables can help tame the top ends some, with the right tube/amp choices etc.

 

I had a Moon Audio black dragon put on my set, although as there hard wired, this was sent straight from the dealer so I didn't get a chance to A&B them with stock. At the time it satisfied my head-fi paranoia and upgraditis but I'm still very curious about the SAA Endorphin and more recently the Toxic Venom RC-4, anyone tried these with the Grado?

 

A pity that the PS1000 doesn't have a cable jack like other manufacturers to allow easy swapping and that they are glued together which makes access a pain.

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